- Joined
- Feb 27, 2014
No, no, no. As far as I know, they accidentally collided with another pair at practice.
As if it were something new about figure skating or about Tarasova... :scowl:
Elena Ilinykh & Ruslan Zhiganshin
- Thread starter OrdinaryDreamer
- Start date
No, no, no. As far as I know, they accidentally collided with another pair at practice.
As if it were something new about figure skating or about Tarasova... :scowl:
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
Awesome!
I`ve read what Tarasova said after the FD and that was a very, very cheap shot by her.:disapp:
I understand that she is pushing S/B, but she has to realize that with all the difficulties Elena and Ruslan had the last weeks, they still score very closely to S/B. I just think that a well-trained I/Z would be so much better than a well-trained S/B.
If I/Z can`t make it to Tallinn, I hope they will be entered for the Golden Spin in Zagreb.
Their PCS was great. And the fall was not on an element, the main problem was the twizzles and some levels.When a team gets the second highest PCS there is no need to even change a program. And their composition mark was very very good.And the panel was normal, it wasn't friendly to them, actually there were two judges that were so out of synch in their low marks that it was funny. Especially the technical panel wasn't friendly at all. But their presentation has improved. Lena is a star out there, she's enjoying it, even with the injury.
But if people knew what fight Lena gave to skate in Paris, they would understand. Their bravery and commitment is amazing.
But if people knew what fight Lena gave to skate in Paris, they would understand. Their bravery and commitment is amazing.
Just watched the dance finally, it was not the disaster some may have made seem it was, but they seemed more cautious than Skate America which is normal and the fall looked so painful. I still like the dance a lot anyway! The PT commentators were worried for Elena since it seemed she had twisted her knee in the fall but fortunately it seems it's not the case. I think that some transitions still lack some refinement and energy but coming to a competition injured doesn't allow for everything to be perfect. What the commentators called more on was the last lift because the music is so fast and they can't keep up, but it would be very hard to do it anyway with such a fast music so maybe there should be some music editing to make it a bit less uptempo.
Well I just wish that after sorting out any physical problems they can also sort out other issues. It's hard to make a case for them right now unfortunately. I hope they are patient because this season also doesn't seem to be the "comeback" season. I hope they go to another Challenger this fall even if they cannot go to Tallin because winning a medal with good scores there would do wonders for their confidence.
Well I just wish that after sorting out any physical problems they can also sort out other issues. It's hard to make a case for them right now unfortunately. I hope they are patient because this season also doesn't seem to be the "comeback" season. I hope they go to another Challenger this fall even if they cannot go to Tallin because winning a medal with good scores there would do wonders for their confidence.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2014
Sorry but this is simply not true. I'm not defending Kustarova but the fact is that in the first two seasons together levels were not the issue, and they were the best Russian couple as far as levels were concerned. Don't make me go and check all their comeptition cause I have already done that on FSU last season. Even in SA their levels were the same as B&S, and only one level lower in one element - If I'm not mistaken - compared with the first top 2 couples. Besides, none of the top couples have always maintained the same levels in all competitions in these years. I&Z main issues have always been the GoE and mistakes, consistency, not levels.
I fully agree with this. No matter what programs they have, what they need is to be steady and to give the judges and fed reason to think they can be trusted to deliver. :thumbsup:
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- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
I/Z had the highest TES at Euros 2015 and they managed to skate level 3 step sequences already at their first competition together. Last season their levels were pretty strong and as you wrote it was mostly due to the GOE that they didn`t move up in the rankings. At Skate America they had the second highest base value in the SD after H/D and the same base value in the FD as B/S. At TdF they had pretty strong GOE, especially in the Short Dance, but their levels suffered a lot, probably due to Elena`s injury.
IMO, coaching wise they should stay where they are right now. It doesn`t make any sense to deal again with a coaching change. They will figure out how to get their levels back where they should be and hopefully have a few good and injury-free weeks of training.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2014
There is a reason why the Russian ID is where it is now, the lowest point in the history of their ID.:sarcasm:
Other couples may fluctuate in levels received but I/Z coach doesn't even respect the level system. So when I/Z get mostly level 2 on step sequences why is that? In the SD it's true that I/Z and H/D were equally bad but in the FD you had H/D improve but I/Z remain horrible.
No Russian team is that good in TES. Being the same as B/S isn't even a good thing. You want to be a lot better than B/S.
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- Joined
- May 4, 2015
Thank you very much for letting us know that!
Exactly! The Rus Fed’s corruption (and not just in regards to SB) is coming home to roost. As the Russian saying goes, “The fish rots from the head.”
Thank goodness not everybody in Russia is in league with it. In this article about the second day of competition at TEF, the journalist mentions how IZ ended up in the forth place overall, and then says, “But there’s really no feeling of doom after the Parisian performance of Ilinykh and Zhiganshin. To the contrary, there’s obvious progress in comparison with the start of the season. The national champions of 2015 appeared in quite a good physical shape, despite losing the past week of training due to the lady’s cut leg. There’s no doubt that all the rest will be in good shape by the Nationals too: they’ll get their dances up to high standard, increase the levels of difficulty on the elements, and all will be well.”
http://www.sovsport.ru/gazeta/article-item/939384
Recent fan art: https://www.instagram.com/p/BMuBUDVBgmu/
ht tp://www.sovsport. ru/gazeta/article-item/939384
ht tps://www.instagram. com/p/BMuBUDVBgmu/
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- Joined
- Dec 22, 2010
I've heard a rumour that Elena is injured?
Please say it isn't true!
Sadly it looks like the rumour I heard was true!
(Though good to know that my sources are very accurate)
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2014
Tell me when IZ got mostly level 2s on the step sequence?
CoC 2014 SD - NtMiSt3, PSt3
CoC 2014 FD - CiSt3, DiSt3
CoR 2014 SD - NtMiSt3, PSt3
CoR 2014 FD - CiSt3, DiSt3
GPF 2014 SD - NtMiSt2, PSt2 (if I'm not mistaken they had a stumble on the NtMiSt in this competition)
GPF 2014 FD - CiSt2, DiSt3
Europeans 2015 SD - NtMiSt3, PSt4
Europeans 2015 FD - CiSt3, DiSt3
World 2015 SD - NtMiSt3, PSt3
World 2015 FD - CiSt3, DiSt3
CoC 2015 SD - PSt3
CoC 2015 FD - MiSt2, CiSt3
CoR 2015 SD - PSt3
CoR 2015 FD - MiSt3, CiSt3
SA 2016 SD - PSt2, NtMiSt2
SA 2016 FD - SeSt3, DiSt2
TdF 2016 SD - SeSt3, DiSt2
TdF 2016 FD - SeSt2, DiSt2
These are the levels in all competitions they participated since they started, except for RN which I'm not gonna bother to find them now, and their levels were in line with other top couples. I would like to mention that in almost all their competitions the other elements had level 4s. Also, other top couples had more than once level 2s in their step sequence also, and only once or twice max, and only 1 or 2 couples had ever a level 4.
Sure you do, and yes Russian teams aren't that good in TES. That is why I said IZ were the best Russian team in that regard, and as I said above, in line with other top international couples. I repeat, their issue is not levels, and this is based on facts not opinions or bias.
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- Feb 17, 2010
IMO, the one thing K/A do well are getting the levels. Now, GOE and program construction is a whole other matter, but when I heard that they are back with them, the one thing I wasn`t worried about were their levels. It`s also worth to mention that I/Z didn`t have yet a competiton for which they could train 100%. Before Skate America Ruslan had his injury and Elena a cold, before TdF Elena had her injury.
Beautiful picture
https://www.instagram.com/p/BMuPMioFCC5/?taken-by=ilinykh_zhiganshin_official
Beautiful picture
https://www.instagram.com/p/BMuPMioFCC5/?taken-by=ilinykh_zhiganshin_official
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2014
The main problem I see with that FED is that they have no clue and they are stuck in the past, at all levels. In coaching terms, vision, artistic level, programing and supporting and nurturing talents.
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- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
What helped the Russian Ladies skating to become so dominant was that younger coaches, who understand how to use COP the best way possible, pushed through. Maybe, something like this is also needed for Ice Dance. Zhulin has done some tremendous work with B/S, but I don`t think he is coaching any junior teams. Svinin/Zhuk have pretty strong junior teams, but apparently are not getting the Fed`s support. Kustarova has of course produced a lot of Junior World Champions, but they either broke up or had to quit because of injury. From 2007 to 2015, 6 different Russian Ice Dance teams have won World Juniors, Kustarova has coached 4 of them and the only one who is still skating together are B/S. Which brings me to another problem and that`s the numerous break ups Russian Ice Dance had to endure the last 2 years.
Re I/Z I`m just hoping they are getting a fair chance at Nationals.
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2011
This is my biggest hope too. If other teams beat them fairly so be it, but I'd hate to have it already decided before they get there like it seemed to be last year.
My opinion on the level 2's on the step sequences was from TDF but thanks for posting skate America. I'm now of the opinion that I/Z should not have competed this year in the gp. They are getting their worst scores ever and it must be because of the injuries. I was thinking of how b/s had to leave kustarova because of their terrible levels with her compared to the top teams. If Russians are getting level 3 everyone is getting level 4! If Russians are getting level 2 everyone else has 3! But it's clear that this season is awful on a whole new level and i/z should have stopped after skate America.
IMO, the one thing K/A do well are getting the levels. Now, GOE and program construction is a whole other matter, but when I heard that they are back with them, the one thing I wasn`t worried about were their levels. It`s also worth to mention that I/Z didn`t have yet a competiton for which they could train 100%. Before Skate America Ruslan had his injury and Elena a cold, before TdF Elena had her injury.
Beautiful picture
Like I said b/s didn't get the levels. They had to leave.
No one is beating b/s. They won't win but there's no s/k this year and they should be able to beat s/b. They will all get level 4s at Russian nationals so it's all pcs and I don't believe I/z will be below s/b.
- Joined
- May 4, 2015
I think that in general Rus Fed puts more money into fs than any other national fs federation. I've heard that even kids who are just starting often don't have to pay anything for lessons. So everybody who has the talent and the desire can become a figure skater in Russia, which is why they have so many high-level skaters in all the four disciplines, both in juniors and in seniors. Regarding ID, Russia does well in Juniors there too. I think that a big part of the reason so many teams break up later is that there's great competition to get into the national team, and those who don't see any chance of being sent to Euros and Worlds eventually break up in hopes of forming more successful partnerships with someone else or switch federations for less competitive national fields. So in this respect Rus Fed is the victim of its own success. I'm sure if there were no quotas and qualifying for Euros and Worlds were similar to qualifying for GP events, considerably more Russian ID teams would have stayed together.
It's true that they don't win anything in seniors in ID at the moment, but personally I don't think that it has much to do with the level of coaching, vision or fed support in general. I don't think there's anything wrong with Zhulin, Swinin/Zhuk or Kustarova/Alexeeva as coaches. Yes, they may not have huge centers like Novi staffed with all sorts of specialists, but I'm sure they all invite various specialists as needed. It's not like Russian ice dancers don't execute high-level lifts or patterns. And nothing stops them from inviting choreographers, both foreign and domestic, as IZ did during their two years with AK. Even as it is, I think that both BS and SB have had some excellent programs over the years, to say nothing of IZ.
So why aren't they more successful? Well, why aren't SK more successful? They have trained abroad from the beginning. However, neither their programs, nor their technique is better than the other top Russian teams'. I think that all of them do the best they can, but Sinitsina and Stepanova probably just lack the talent to break into top three in the world - and let's face it, the competition at that level is fierce.
It was much easier for Russia when all its coaches stayed home, and there was no serious competition from other countries, unless a couple of super-talented ice dancers happened to live in the same country at the same time, like Torvill and Dean. Bu it's a very rare chance, and so when they left there wasn't anybody to follow into their footsteps. Compare that to the Russian teams which usually placed 1-2-4 at Worlds, so that when the champions left, there was usually a Russian team just waiting to pick up the mantle. But then some Russian coaches transferred that model abroad, and probably improved it a bit, thanks to less supervision from the bureaucrats and more money from different feds and private tuition money. And for the first time Rus Fed found itself with some really serious competition in ID.
Could it improve things by relinquishing some control and allowing their coaches to take plenty of foreign students to bring in more money? Maybe, but let's face it. Nothing could make SB or SK into WCs. And while BS are better technically, they are not WC material either (for one thing, neither of them has the artistic talent for it, not even close, IMO).
IZ are the only ones Russia now has who have the talent that Russian great champions of the past had. But they are the team Rus Fed refuses to support. The only time Rus Fed did support IZ was during their first season, when BS were out with an injury and it wasn't clear if they'd be able to compete again. That year IZ got the scores they deserved (except for their first GP) and supportive press releases. But once BS got back into the fray, and SK's backers decided that they are ready for big time, the Fed's support for IZ evaporated. Just think about it: SK were given state funds to train in America for three years, and when they left this fall, it wasn't for financial reasons, while IZ had to look for a private sponsor, and even then the Fed dragged its feet approving the transfer. However, as BS seemed likely to get a long disqualification and leave the sport, while the other two teams placed 10th and 11th at Worlds, Rus Fed grudgingly let IZ train in Novi (under its close supervision!).
However, as the meldonium case against Bobrova was dropped, the Fed quickly reversed its policy towards IZ yet again, recalling them back and unleashing trolling in the press. I've read members of the Navka forum writing that some people totally didn't want IZ training with Shpilband and did everything to stop it. I've always found it strange that IZ's sponsor was unanimous, because usually businesses do it for publicity. But now I think that it was probably somebody connected with the Fed whom they could pressure to stop funding IZ. Yes, IZ get more personal attention from KA, but it was obvious even before transferring that it couldn't be that way with S. However, they seemed happy there till the last, with Elena posting pics calling S the best coach and saying she loved Chicago.
Elena has incredible talent, and such talent always produces envy and hatred in some people who understand that no matter what they can't compete against it. Even when she skated with K, she had to put up with stuff no other Russian figure skater had to, like having totally invented besmirching articles published about her, articles that were obviously paid for, by somebody who had an agenda. When IK split, I saw on the Russian forums how everybody who had hated them suddenly began supporting SK and transferred all their hatred to IZ, even magnified, because contrary to their expectations she didn't leave the sport, but found herself a new partner, and even better than the former, and they became even more popular than IK had been. And it's not just one or two or three trolls. I've seen FSO change direction 180 degrees during IZ's first season when everybody saw that their potential is huge. I don't think such shifts just happen spontaneously. I also know that there are powerful people in Rus Fed who hate Elena's guts - because their darlings can't compete with her. I've read various people on Russian forums talk repeatedly about certain teams having a pull with the fed and/or about money being involved. And the way IZ have been and are being treated seems to confirm that. That's why I say that Rus Fed's main problem is corruption. I just hope against hope that the anti-IZ faction won't win again.
