Elena Ilinykh & Ruslan Zhiganshin

[solani]

Who made a hole in the ice so that Ruslan have to fall.

Hmmm ... should we come up with conspiracy theories? :dev3: I have a couple of ideas, but do we actually know that there was a hole? We need evidence!

 

[tvuckic16]

OK, so I finally watched the video. Great showing!! Too bad about the twizzles. They must have been nervous, I think Ruslan looked really nervous initially. Interestingly, I think the fall basically freed them up. The dance after that fall was excellent! What the hell, they let loose, there was nothing to lose after that.

We might see a fantastic Frida tomorrow too, now that the pressure is off...

 

[Alba]

I just came at home. I've seen nothing yet except the scores. What happened?

 

[Marta25]

Ruslan fell on his first twizzle and they got 0 points for it.

 

[Alba]

Ruslan fell on his first twizzle and they got 0 points for it.

Did he get injured? I saw the 0 points on Twizzles but I thought they missed them completely. Pity, the rest of the elements have high levels. The highest among all. :disapp:

 

[sunn1ly]

Hmmm ... should we come up with conspiracy theories? :dev3: I have a couple of ideas, but do we actually know that there was a hole? We need evidence!

I am pretty positive he fell because of the ice period. You can see it clearly in the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDux3qH8rCg

Actually in the Russian videos you can hear the surprise. The commentator was pretty sure that if not the fall they would have been first at that point of the competition. I liked the UK commentators also. They said Elena pretty much brighten the ice before the fall or something like that

 

[tulosai]

Did he get injured? I saw the 0 points on Twizzles but I thought they missed them completely. Pity, the rest of the elements have high levels. The highest among all. :disapp:

He did not seem injured, no, so that is a blessing. They pulled it together quite well afterwards.

 

[Alba]

Even with the fall the PCS is not good, I really think they should change the SD. It's a shame but it's just not being rewarded and there is no room for error this year. Less than 8 on SS & TR...

Well, the positive side of it is, they have enough time to change the twizzle sequence before Nationals and if you ask me they should also consider to change the SD music. The PCS were bad, even with a fall.

Were they? 31.89 PCS with 23.57. In my book that's not bad at all. In fact it's the opposite.

 

[Marta25]

Were they? 31.89 PCS with 23.57. In my book that's not bad at all. In fact it's the opposite.

What worries me more are their GOE on the step sequences. They were their strength last season, I`m not sure what exactly is happening there. Is their RW really that bad?

 

[uhh]

What worries me more are their GOE on the step sequences. They were their strength last season, I`m not sure what exactly is happening there. Is their RW really that bad?

No, it's very clean (they wouldn't get the levels if it wasn't), fast and they have good ice coverage. They look more comfortable in hold than last year. The thing they could improve is the free leg extension, they are at a disadvantage here to other teams because they are shorter so have to work hard for the same effect, but it's not a big enough issue for the judges to justify giving 0s and 1s unless they think there are other issues. They must be seeing something I'm not, or they don't like the dance overall & it comes through in the GOE.

 

[Alba]

What worries me more are their GOE on the step sequences. They were their strength last season, I`m not sure what exactly is happening there. Is their RW really that bad?

Last season their partial in the SD got in GoE's:

CoC 2014: +0.36
CoC 2015: +1.41

CoR 2014:+0.94
CoR 2015:+0.94

How is that worse or their weakest element this season?

Look, I'm not trying to make it look like everything is roses but I think we should all calm down a bit, at least in this thread, and pay less attention to users like Abraxis&Co. who come in this fan-fest only to express their negativity and panic. For god's sake Olympic Champions have made a lot of mistakes before becoming champions. It's not such a big deal. These two are young and in their second year together. There is plenty of time. They have the talent and they have the gift. That is something nobody can teach you. Everything else can be fixed and done. :agree2:
Always remember: Do Not Feed the Trolls.

I can only hope for a great Frida to show that they ARE supposed to be there.

What do you mean with "to show that they are supposed to be there"?

Otherwise I would almost suggest a S/K type pause. If they don't show up by nationals... I'm just angry because I know they can do so much better.

SK didn't take a pause last season. They had a bad season and left out of the team since they didn't medal at the RN either. Why take a pause, unless they are forced to, instead of trying to improve with each competition? What kind of logic is that?! This is a sport. You have bad periods and good periods. You do not give up just because it's hard. Otherwise you better quit for good.

 

[uhh]

But last year, the key patterns/partial around the key points* at CoR got 0.69 & 0.94 (with a really big wobble from Ruslan) and this year they got 0.43 and 0.26, in China 0.43 and 0.34. One judge thought the 1st sequence was bad enough today to give -1. And they aren't making mistakes in this section, there are no wobbles, nothing visibly disrupting the pattern & they don't appear slower than other teams, so it's really concerning that the judges aren't going to give them the marks.

I'm OK when they make mistakes & get low scores. However, apart from the twizzles, that was probably the best they've skated the rest of the SD, but there was no pick up in GOE from China, in fact overall it's marginally down. There were 2 judges who thought fit to give them nothing above 7.5 in PCS. And they are not a team that should be getting low 7s for anything, especially considering that so much of this is reputation based and they were technically coming into this season as the top team in their country. Something in this SD is really not connecting. I'm not freaking out and saying that's it, the season is over, the partnership is doomed, but I think it's pretty clear from the scores they've had that something needs to change.

I really hope they can do a great performance tomorrow - there's no way back to the podium or maybe even 4th, and I expect unless S/K make mistakes they don't have a chance of matching what they do in the FD because of the starting order, but if they can excute their levels & get ~52 PCS like in China, it should help to restore their confidence and remind everyone that they are still in the conversation for Nationals & the Worlds team.

*for comparison purposes take the GOE of the partial this year with the no touch sequence last year, because they have the same base value and GOE is scaled to base value. This season the 2 RW sequences are the equivalent of the 1 PD sequence and the partial last year.

 

[LisaM]

@alba: I mean that they haven't shown what they are capable of on the big stage yet, this season. If I didn't follow them so closely, I would have been skeptical of their skills as a couple, almost as if Carmen was a one hit wonder. I hope that a hit Frida will change the minds of people who now write them off.

 

[Alba]

But last year, the key patterns at CoR got 0.69 & 0.94 (with a really big wobble from Ruslan) and this year they got 0.43 and 0.26, in China 0.43 and 0.34. One judge thought the 1st sequence was bad enough today to give -1. And they aren't making mistakes in this section, there are no wobbles, nothing visibly disrupting the pattern & they don't appear slower than other teams, so it's really concerning that the judges aren't going to give them the marks.

I'm OK when they make mistakes & get low scores. However, apart from the twizzles, that was probably the best they've skated the rest of the SD, but there was no pick up in GOE from China, in fact overall it's marginally down. There were 2 judges who thought fit to give them nothing above 7.5 in PCS. Something in this SD is really not connecting. I'm not freaking out and saying that's it, the season is over, the partnership is doomed, but I think it's pretty clear from the scores they've had that something needs to change.

I really hope they can do a great performance tomorrow - there's no way back to the podium or maybe even 4th, and I expect unless S/K make mistakes they don't have a chance of matching what they do in the FD because of the starting order, but if they can excute their levels & get ~52 PCS like in China, it should help to restore their confidence and remind everyone that they are still in the conversation for Nationals & the Worlds team.

That may very well be the case. The choice of the SD was definitely a risk even before the start of the season. We knew that much and Averbukh mentioned that also. It's the kind of program that either you like it or you don't and it doesn't help your case when you don't skate clean either. However, making it sound like everything is a problem, like the partials in this case, when it's not, it's not being objective or constructive criticism either because rather than describing the reality and discussing real issues you're projecting your fear and panic. I was very angry with the PCS and the judges in China about the PCS. I'm not that happy with them here with regards to the GoE's and PCS either but to say that 31.89 PCS are really bad when you get 23 in TES that is simply not true. What did SK had with 29.75 TES? 2 points higher in PCS, only. They are not CB or WP to get high PCS even when they have mistakes or get +3 with poor twizzles. You need a rep. for that and you need time to build it, just like CB, WP etc.

 

[surimi]

But last year, the key patterns/partial around the key points* at CoR got 0.69 & 0.94 (with a really big wobble from Ruslan) and this year they got 0.43 and 0.26, in China 0.43 and 0.34. One judge thought the 1st sequence was bad enough today to give -1. And they aren't making mistakes in this section, there are no wobbles, nothing visibly disrupting the pattern & they don't appear slower than other teams, so it's really concerning that the judges aren't going to give them the marks.

I honestly think the scores will be back once they put out a program (again, meaning mostly what they skate to) that's appealing to the intl judges' eyes and ears (as this one seems not to be), and have a confident skate. I am very curious about tomorrow, because having nothing to lose, they can potentially skate without the big expectations that made them nervous in China.

OT, I wonder if IZ would be getting so much flak if it was Someone Else + Ruslan. Poor Elena really seems to attract trolls, self-appointed weight watchers and jeerers within a 10-mile radius. I know all the attention is actually a compliment, of a sort, to how much she stands out, but it still makes me mad. :dev2:

 

[Marta25]

When I watched their SD, their charisma and chemistry were palpable. They have it all, but I think this SD is just not working for them. Their GOE are not good if you compare it to what S/K, G/P or S/S receive. It`s just so frustrating, because they get the levels and they are amazing performers, but the GOE and PCS are killing their scores.

 

[Alba]

@alba: I mean that they haven't shown what they are capable of on the big stage yet, this season. If I didn't follow them so closely, I would have been skeptical of their skills as a couple, almost as if Carmen was a one hit wonder. I hope that a hit Frida will change the minds of people who now write them off.

The first half of this season it's not over yet. This competition is not over yet. I would wait before spreading the doom. And even if they do not show that in this season, there are other seasons, fortunately for them and their fans. It's easy to jump on the bandwagon when everything works. As for the people who are writing them off now they did that from the start. They did it even before these two started competing last season. So why bother with that?

I am very curious about tomorrow, because having nothing to lose, they can potentially skate without the big expectations that made them nervous in China.

Many here seems to think that but I'm not sure that's entirely true. In terms of proving themselves and boost their confidence they do have a lot of pressure and expectations. It's not always about results.

 

[Marta25]

I have the feeling that a lot of people just loved the story of Elena having her "revenge" last season and weren`t necessarily Ruslena`s fans. I`m not writing them off, it`s way too early for that and I also don`t believe that they are being dumped. We don`t know what their coaching team has planned, we know from the past that Kustarova doesn`t shy away to completely change a program in the middle of the season. I guess, if they plan to make a change for the SD, it will be probably before Nationals.

 

[uhh]

That may very well be the case. The choice of the SD was definitely a risk even before the start of the season. We knew that much and Averbukh mentioned that also. It's the kind of program that either you like it or you don't and it doesn't help your case when you don't skate clean either. However, making it sound like everything is a problem, like the partials in this case, when it's not, it's not being objective or constructive criticism either because rather than describing the reality and discussing real issues you're projecting your fear and panic. I was very angry with the PCS and the judges in China about the PCS. I'm not that happy with them here with regards to the GoE's and PCS either but to say that 31.89 PCS are really bad when you get 23 in TES that is simply not true. What did SK had with 29.75 TES? 2 points higher in PCS, only. They are not CB or WP to get high PCS even when they have mistakes or get +3 with poor twizzles. You need a rep. for that and you need time to build it, just like CB, WP etc.

The reality is, they are skating elements well, and not getting the reward for doing so that the teams they should be competing with are. And it's not just here with the mistake, it was same in China. There have been teams this season - not even the top top teams, but teams like S/K & G/P - who have outscored them technically this season starting from a lower base value because their GOE is that much better. It's not fear or panic to say this is a problem that they have to address if they want to have any impact over the rest of the season. Ignore the twizzles and they had the best levels here, but when everyone is getting 3 & 4 on all their elements, it's the GOE that makes the difference.

And 2 points in PCS is a huge amount, especially in the SD. The fall doesn't change what the judges give them for Transitions, or Choreography, or even that much in Skating Skills. No matter what the TES, 31.89 is bad for a team of their quality with their aspirations, just as 32 in China was disappointing. They got almost a point higher at GPF last year (32.87) for a performance that was worse than today - 2 really big mistakes - when they had less reputation. The fact is, they got poor PCS by their standards here & in China (although thankfully less so in the free in China.) We know they can do better, the response from commentators & experts has been mixed, everyone says the program is a risk, and I think now is the time to say the risk hasn't worked. It's not a defeat to do something like that, to not stick your head in the sand and just carry on with doing the same thing in the hope that it gets better.

 

[Alba]

I have the feeling that a lot of people just loved the story of Elena having her "revenge" last season and weren`t necessarily Ruslena`s fans..

Just a "feeling"? I can assure you that's the case. A lot of them "discovered" IK in Sochi only and they fell in love. So imagine the shock after the split. Others always envied&hated her even before. No matter what she did or did not. So, it's hard to please them.