Exactly, and the point is that it's the skaters' decision. They know what their problems were, and how their training was, and they will have to decide if it's temporary or not. But nothing is a coincidence.
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Elena Ilinykh & Ruslan Zhiganshin
- Thread starter OrdinaryDreamer
- Start date
Exactly, and the point is that it's the skaters' decision. They know what their problems were, and how their training was, and they will have to decide if it's temporary or not. But nothing is a coincidence.
That has not been my experience at all actually... but I can see how that could be true in a lot of cases. It depends on the person I guess, do you really have a plan or are you using it as a crutch. I imagine both are true on an individual basis.
I agree though with tulosai that it is puzzling that KA are not efficient in building really successful senior teams. I bet someone has an explanation, I just don't have one. I don't think it is just the lack of political power, as I am not even sure that is it. They should have political power, they have been around a while and they are good coaches, especially for juniors.... It is puzzling.
Well, obviously it is the skaters' decision. All we do here is offer nefarious opinions based on not enough information. But that is a forum...
As I said before, I like the move to Shpilband. Not sure about the timing of it all. That can be debated without resolution till next season when we see the results. So, I guess, we'll just see what they decide and what the results will be.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
I don`t kow if this was posted yet, but at least Shpilband is interested in working with them on a permanent basis http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20160222/897849765.html
That`s at least what I understood from the Google translation.
I guess both parties Ruslena and Shpilband seem to be interested to work full-time with each other, so we just can hope for the best
That`s at least what I understood from the Google translation.
I guess both parties Ruslena and Shpilband seem to be interested to work full-time with each other, so we just can hope for the best
I don`t kow if this was posted yet, but at least Shpilband is interested in working with them on a permanent basis http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20160222/897849765.html
That`s at least what I understood from the Google translation.
I guess both parties Ruslena and Shpilband seem to be interested to work full-time with each other, so we just can hope for the best
Praying that is the case.
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2011
I don`t kow if this was posted yet, but at least Shpilband is interested in working with them on a permanent basis http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20160222/897849765.html
That`s at least what I understood from the Google translation.
I guess both parties Ruslena and Shpilband seem to be interested to work full-time with each other, so we just can hope for the best
Yes, reading between the lines it seems fairly obvious (at least IMO) that everyone is keeping their options open (which is appropriate), but that if the training situation suits them all and funding isn't an issue, the move will be permanent. Those are two real 'ifs' though, so we will indeed just have to hope for the best and wait and see.
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2009
There was no reason to leave K/A after the first season. It was more success than most first year teams in Seniors have. K/A gave them their all and unfortunately it didn't work out this past season. The move is good now. It's very obvious, especially in their first year together that these two work and learn quick. And the season before the Olympics, timing is perfect. The move is temporary in print but I'm sure it will become permanent.
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In fairness, they had a chunk of not great luck, and success on the junior level doesn't automatically translate in dance at all into the senior level: if you go back through all the medalists at JW dance over the last 10 years, out of the 27 teams that have medalled, only 5 translated that into a senior World medal. In comparison, across ladies there have been 20 different junior medalists and 8 of them have gone on to senior medals. And it's not just Kustarova that struggled to take successful juniors to a strong senior career - Kaitlyn & Jean-Luc haven't set the world alight, Paul/Islam are going nowhere, S/B have been top of the middle of the pack but no better in their 3 senior seasons.
For Kustarova's junior teams (excluding Romanovskaya because I know next to nothing about their career): They did OK initially transitioning B/S, getting 13th at Worlds, then they had a rough 2nd second, but came back to make the Olympic team, and then had two years as national champs & winning Euro medals. Worlds 2012 was a disaster for them, and I wonder how much of their decision to go to Zhulin was a panic because of that & fear of losing ground to I/K, or more general dissatisfaction with KA. Since the switch, they got a world medal, but then slipped way behind I/K, and if the great partner swap hadn't happened I don't think they would have been able to reclaim the Russian no. 1 spot.
M/K were really unlucky with him getting mono at the start of their 1st senior year, and their switch to Zhulin hasn't produced anything miraculous.
S/Z won a GP medal in the 1st senior season and then in the following season finished fourth at Euros and got onto the Olympic team ahead of two much more established senior teams. And we all know what happened next, and you can't lay the blame on KA for that.
It's too early to write off Kustarova with Y/M. They haven't been all that technically solid, but Anna had a horrible injury. The FD was a mis-step, but I really liked the SD. I see them kind of where S/B were in their 1st senior year - it's not a disaster at all, and it always always takes ice dance teams longer to get established than single skaters who if they have a technical advantage can quickly make a splash like Evgenia or Boyang.
Where they do fall down I think is the packaging and presentation: the things that makes a team easy to like for the judges. Y/M's FD this year was ridiculous, WWRY never worked for I/Z, and it didn't help that I always felt their costumes looked a bit sloppy, drab, & obscured their lines, my mind will always be haunted by Bobrova trying to do a samba dressed in heavy black velvet... It's easier to get away with this at junior level where good SS trumps everything, but when you get to the crowded senior level everyone has good SS, all the other stuff adds up to the overall impression and that's reflected in the scores.
It's not about political clout, but more being the kind of coach that thinks "how can I make it as easy as possible for the judges to give this the highest possible marks". Igor does this with his programs for C/B; I find it largely boring, but it shows off Madison's flashy personality which is the strength of their partnership. Marina has with S/K - Victoria still has terrible basics, but it helps that she's now wearing more streamlined costumes which help make nicer lines instead of the Kustarova ruffles everywhere. D/L have done it with P/C: if you watch their Zazoui programs they skated much more closely together and in more complex holds, after they moved to Montreal a lot of the in between moves were simplified and there is a lot of space between them in hold - this allowed them to increase their flow and speed, which the judges notice & reward more than the previous complex work, and also has reduced the amount of mistakes they make, thus building up their reputation. It just doesn't seem to me that KA are taking this approach of wringing every possible point out of each program - or maybe they think they are but the understanding of what judges are looking for is way off.
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The name of the game has changed. It's primarily about GOE, packaging. When more couples come up to P/C and V/M level, then difficulty will become an issue. It staggers the mind that Kustarova hasn't come to grips with that for so many years. Carmen was the perfect example of how you put together a program for these two and yet she basically didn't follow through this season. Hence the kids had to try something different.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
I think KA have a real talent in putting teams together, they have a very good sense if two skaters fit together or not. Kustarova was the one who suggested Ruslan to Elena, when people wanted to see her with Tkachenko or Bukin and couldn`t even imagine Elena and Ruslan being a good fit. I think every country needs coaches like KA who take Junior teams and develop them to a certain level. Y/M came out of nowhere in their first season qualifying for the JGPF and nearly medalling at Junior Worlds. Similar to Skoptcova/Aleshin this year, who were the youngest team to qualify for JGPF.
Another coach that has a similar talent is Paul MacIntosh in Canada. He coached Tessa Virtue, Scott Moir and Andrew Poje when they were children and teamed Poje up with Kaitlyn Weaver.
I agree that I/Z need to leave KA, but I find it sad that they get so little respect from the Russian Fed, because ultimately coaches like KA are the ones who keep on producing talents.
Another coach that has a similar talent is Paul MacIntosh in Canada. He coached Tessa Virtue, Scott Moir and Andrew Poje when they were children and teamed Poje up with Kaitlyn Weaver.
I agree that I/Z need to leave KA, but I find it sad that they get so little respect from the Russian Fed, because ultimately coaches like KA are the ones who keep on producing talents.
I like these two, very abstract but haunting;
1. The latter 30 seconds or so of this, the horn? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGEWQRL2sJk
2. Nouella Cover "the sound of silence" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4oInT79CUk
Hmm...
1. The latter 30 seconds or so of this, the horn? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGEWQRL2sJk
2. Nouella Cover "the sound of silence" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4oInT79CUk
Hmm...
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2015
I like your songs proposals, but I prefer for them something more fast. IZ are lucky that I am not their coach. Otherwise they would have the fastest and epic routines out there.
When are they arriving in US? I hope Elena spare us and send us regular photo updates in the social media.
I am happy for their decision and wish them inspiring programs and fair judge.
When are they arriving in US? I hope Elena spare us and send us regular photo updates in the social media.
I am happy for their decision and wish them inspiring programs and fair judge.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
I like your songs proposals, but I prefer for them something more fast. IZ are lucky that I am not their coach. Otherwise they would have the fastest and epic routines out there.
When are they arriving in US? I hope Elena spare us and send us regular photo updates in the social media.
I am happy for their decision and wish them inspiring programs and fair judge.
According to the article that announced their switch to Detroit, they should already be in Detroit, since they have their first training day, tomorrow.
I thought that Another Love by Tom Odell could maybe be used as a FD. It starts very slowly, but gets faster and faster.
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- Joined
- Feb 8, 2015
Oh so they arrived. I guess then they are still adjusting. I hope everything is going smooth. The move can be very stressful. I hope this is not the case with them and they are more excited about all the new things ahead.
About the song I like it but there are too much lyrics. I'd rather they use it as gala.
About the song I like it but there are too much lyrics. I'd rather they use it as gala.
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2011
I imagine with the time change and with the cultural adaptations they are going to be making they are indeed still adjusting. I do hope Elena will post an update of some kind soon but if not I'm going to assume that means they're busy training hard and don't really want many distractions, which could be a good thing for them too.
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2009
I agree the time change is going to be an adjustment. It's 4pm where I am and I believe Moscow is 8 hours ahead of me. As much as everyone loves a Ruslena update, it's probably better they stay off social media. I'm appalled at some of the crap that is said.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
Well, lately Elena doesn`t seem to be posting as much as she used to and Ruslan rarely posts on twitter or instagram. It`s fine by me, I hope they will find the peace and quiet in Detroit to focus on training and make the most out of their time with Shpilband/Bourzat. I guess we will get an official statement by them when they return to Moscow regarding if they will stay with Shpilband or going back to Kustarova.
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2014
Everything in the beginning will be very hard though
I've found for myself that good changes are always difficult but so worth it. These two can cope :thumbsup:
It's gonna be as hard as it was for other skaters that took the same step. But when you make a decision you really want it. It's good
I want them off social media for a while, it must be frustrating at times to read fan groups and seeing how people pressure you for photos or they start stories even if half of them mean well.They deserve peace and quiet like any other skater that is left alone to work. (But if they suddenly decide a pic would be nice, ok it's fine with me
)
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