Elizaveta's triple A
- Thread starter stella luna
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- Sep 22, 2010
^Luckily for Liza she appears to be capable of doing both a fully rotated 3/3 and 3Axel. That's some major arsenal there. If she can do it and remain consistent like this season, she would basically be unbeatable unless the other ladies start bringing in 3Axels or even quads.
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- Nov 30, 2014
Well that's interesting. I don't even think they are in the same league yet. I'd have even Pogorilaya ahead of her there. But I'm sure Evgenia will shake off the juniors and come back even stronger in the next season or two. She is definitely one to watch over the next few years...
They were (suspiciously) separated by a point and a point and a half in the SP and FS... the idea they're not in the same league is ludicrous. The idea that Pogorilaya would be ahead of her with all those hands down(did you even watch) even more so...
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- Joined
- Nov 30, 2014
Well, they're not. Juniors/Seniors. Although they are lumped together at Nationals, yes...
Did I watch? Hmm, yes, both live and later on. Probably have more video archives on my computer from multiple sources than just about anyone here, and watched them all many, many times.
What's suspicious about a point difference in the SP and FS? Sounds like Liza and Elena all season long...
You make the argument that they're not on the same level and then use an artificial delimiter?
Then surely you would know the idea that Medvedeva is not on Pogorilaya's level to be absurd... not only did she beat Pogorilaya at Nationals she has a higher ISU personal best score thus far with a junior level program.
http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2014-15/sbtslto.htm
This is Russian nationals... politics will be involved in close decisions.
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IIRC, Evgenia lost to Liza because she received an "e" for her LP lutz. The same call that people were saying she should've gotten all season long. So what's it going to be? Does she deserve e or not--or does she only deserve e at international competitions, because receiving it nationally = controversy?
I don't have an opinion on who should've gotten 2nd place at Nationals... but for what it's worth, I doubt an international panel would've placed them differently.
I don't have an opinion on who should've gotten 2nd place at Nationals... but for what it's worth, I doubt an international panel would've placed them differently.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2011
Have you ever tried to score a program yourself, GoE and PCS? It's beyond irritating every time when people start to talk about this 'barely-won-with-a-point-scenario' as if the judges manufactured them. With the way this system is, you can't. Way to many single numbers that have to add up in a certain way. And then there are 9 different judges, how is one judge supposed to factor into his own scoring what maybe another judge did?
Sure, judging isn't always fair, and maybe judges are favoring skaters over others. But I doubt they sit there and plan out every single point they have to give to have to skaters end up with a specific margin.
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- Jan 17, 2014
Worlds will commence next week. The start will be most exciting and am looking to see what the Russian tsarinas will bring. Really curious to know how Tuks will bring on the 3A. Wonder how it will measure up with Mao, Midori and Tonya's. The Russian style clearly is big on difficult athletic elements and jumps but comparatively weaker on skating skills and choreography. Thank goodness Tuks has some of the better SS among the Russians. Allow her to mature and work on the CR and overall packaging, she has a lot of potential. For the guys, just anticipating which Hanyu, D10 and Yan Han will show up.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
The SP at the WTT proves, I suppose, that the 3A is smart thing to try as long as you can rotate it fully and hold the rest of your program together. Liza earned 4.5 for it (8.5 - 3 (GOE) - 1 (Fall Deduction)). Not a single lady attempting a 2A here surpassed 4.5 points and many even put the jump in the second half.
Although this may not work for everybody... After all, i think people admire Liza so much basically because she can rotate fully and hold the rest together better than many skaters out there...
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- Nov 30, 2014
The WTT event probably isn't the best 'competition' to use for analysis (seems like it's more laid-back for everyone, including the judges...
), but it is interesting that a fully-rotated 3A with a fall still netted more points than any of the 2A elements from the ladies -- and yet, Liza still dropped behind Gracie in the SP (even if by the slimmest of margins). Would this suggest that Gracie's SP (when executed well) would beat Liza's SP without the 3A? Or that it all comes down to the point deduction of a fall, or a point or two GOE difference on a single element?Surprising, as I wouldn't have thought these two programs were that close, based on the results of the entire season. I guess the addition of that 3A at Worlds really was a genius move! (Both for the additional points and psyching out her opponents, particularly Gracie who had to skate immediately following that...)
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- Dec 3, 2011
Million dollar question, though: does the computer program provide them with a running point total as they score? If it does, then individual judges can manipulate their own scores to rank skaters how they want to. Not too hard to look at that running total and say "oh...this is getting too high and she is going to beat skater A who is from my federation, I think I'll drop a GOE there and one here and not give her the PCS just to make sure". If they don't see a running total, then, yes, it would be more difficult.
Um, before Euro's Gracie had a higher SP season's best.
https://web.archive.org/web/20150128092255/http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2014-15/sbtslsp.htm
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No, it does not.
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- Feb 17, 2010
It's hard to say. Gracie gets great GOE on her elements and has a bit higher BV in the jumps (Lz, Lo, T vs. Lz, T, T). But I think Liza would get even higher GOE without a fall. I'd have them close if they skated clean and had around the same BV in their program because they both have weaknesses.
Liza lost the SP to Gracie due to the fall deduction. TES and PCS were both higher.The WTT event probably isn't the best 'competition' to use for analysis (seems like it's more laid-back for everyone, including the judges...
Surprising, as I wouldn't have thought these two programs were that close, based on the results of the entire season. I guess the addition of that 3A at Worlds really was a genius move! (Both for the additional points and psyching out her opponents, particularly Gracie who had to skate immediately following that...)
Most facts seem to point to Liza losing the SP to Gracie without 3A (though by less than a point--basically a tie going into the LP, where she'd probably win when both go clean due to Gracie's lipping). 1. She never scored above 70 with her clean SP format from before 2. She lost the SP to Elena when both went clean, and Elena's now losing the SP to Gracie.
However, there are a few things to counter this: 1. Scores tend to rise as the season progresses, so perhaps Liza's clean SP without 3A would start scoring 70+ by WTT 2. Not only did Liza include 3A--she also moved her 3-3 to the second half. If she does the same with her non-3A-layout, perhaps that would be just enough to challenge Gracie's tougher 3Lz-3T 3. Elena scoring below Gracie at WTT might not mean all that much, because her scores have seen a strange drop at the end of the season; it's likely she'd lose to clean Liza without 3A at this point.
...so, in the end, I don't know.
Probably Gracie wins due to the lutz-toe, but it depends on the day (if Liza's jumps are "only" WTT quality, vs. if they were A+ Europeans quality)Similar threads
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