Elizaveta's triple A

[Globetrotter]

Urrgh, its such a nail biting wait in anticipation of when Worlds will start and the privilege of seeing if another female will get into the 3A ladies list!

 

[Krislite]

I'm ambivalent on this strategy. If she succeeds it will put her way ahead of Radionova in the SP. But if she fails it will be nearly impossible to catch up in the LP unless Radionova bombs. I still think it's better to play the safe route for now and save the triple Axel for next season.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

In terms of "effortlessness," I think the 3A Liza first posted on her Instagram was the closest. It looked easy as a double and had control on the landing. On most of the others we've seen, she seems to check out a bit late. Hopefully she'll get the timing down by Worlds (or at least, nothing worse than a swingy landing/turn-out, which would still put her in the lead).

I was never able to see Tonya as equal to Midori for the reason many stated: that tilt. She had great jumping ability but her technique didn't do her any favours. Mao's, at its best, has the nicest landing, but I'll forgive Midori for a slight swing when she looks like she could out-jump the top men of her era on a good day. :shocked:


Thank you for sharing! Go Liza!

Tonya's tilt in the air WAS distracting. I'd take Midori's wrap around legs on her jumps over that tilt any time.

 

[CarneAsada]

I can't wait to see Liza's 3A at Worlds! Even if she doesn't land it this year, she's got until 2018 to keep trying.

I'm ambivalent on this strategy. If she succeeds it will put her way ahead of Radionova in the SP. But if she fails it will be nearly impossible to catch up in the LP unless Radionova bombs. I still think it's better to play the safe route for now and save the triple Axel for next season.

Depends on the error and if she misses her other jumps. A 3A< with no other errors still gets a good score. I say if she thinks she can land it, go for it.

 

[Globetrotter]

I can't wait to see Liza's 3A at Worlds! Even if she doesn't land it this year, she's got until 2018 to keep trying.


Depends on the error and if she misses her other jumps. A 3A< with no other errors still gets a good score. I say if she thinks she can land it, go for it.

Actually, Tuks has little left to prove for herself this season. The ability to pull off a difficult jump under competition pressure can only be tested......in a real competition, so I don't see that there is a better or worse time. As long as she feels she is ready, she should. I still remember Tonya insisting that she wanted to try the 3A in the 91 US Nats LP - her first attempt and she was doing it with all the stakes involved, fail + fall and she stay home to watch Worlds on TV or win she can win it by risking it. She was insistent on doing it as she felt ready. I will say that Tuks should do it only if she feels good. Its the last comp of the season anyway.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Actually, Tuks has little left to prove for herself this season. The ability to pull off a difficult jump under competition pressure can only be tested......in a real competition, so I don't see that there is a better or worse time. As long as she feels she is ready, she should. I still remember Tonya insisting that she wanted to try the 3A in the 91 US Nats LP - her first attempt and she was doing it with all the stakes involved, fail + fall and she stay home to watch Worlds on TV or win she can win it by risking it. She was insistent on doing it as she felt ready. I will say that Tuks should do it only if she feels good. Its the last comp of the season anyway.

Well, the problem is, it's the biggest competition of the season. And who knows the shape of a skater the following season (e.g. Lip had a stellar Sochi season but this season was awful). I don't see Liza deteriorating, since she's done growing and has a newfound confidence, but if this season is a unique one to her, she should at least be going for the win at Worlds with 2 clean programs instead of risking the win.

However if she does the 3A and goes clean, that would be quite a story! And perhaps it would encourage other ladies to attempt it in competition. Either way, we can expect to see the top two skaters give some of the most technically demanding performances, unlike last year which was rather sloppy after the Olympics (the SPs were great, but I still can't believe Kostner won over Pogorilaya).

 

[Tutto]

An interview with Liza of yesterday:

http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20150317/815605895.html

''Elizaveta Tuktamysheva admitted that she feels nervous in anticipation of doing triple axel at the Worlds, but she realises that the foundation for achieving consistent 3A must be laid now. The skater has already tried to execute this jump twice in competition, and intends to include it also in Shanghai.
‘The 3A is a new element, it can’t be mastered at once. The work on it has its highs and lows. It is also more difficult with other jumps in the program. When you go for 3A you must be ready for a total disruption and finding energy for the rest of the program.
Of course, there is a lot of anxiety but I see 3A as a work on a long- term goal rather than just as regards to this competition (Worlds). Figure skating will continue to up technical content, and 3A will be a must in the future. And my opinion is that I need to work on it now in order to achieve consistency’
Liza had some difficulty answering a question whether she is mentally prepared to risk losing a World medal because of 3A, as she is one of the favourites to win. ‘I don’t know, we’ll see if I am ready. In practice I am able to overcome a failed jump. But as we know, it is totally different in competition. Even when an athlete is 100% ready, it is impossible to expect perfection. Nobody guaranteed from mistakes. ‘

 

[Globetrotter]

Looks like Tuks does think she needs to start hitting it in competition. Ultimately, I think Mishin will be the one advising her. And Mishins skaters certainly all have a healthy appetite for taking chances and a good competitive mindset.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Looks like Tuks does think she needs to start hitting it in competition. Ultimately, I think Mishin will be the one advising her. And Mishins skaters certainly all have a healthy appetite for taking chances and a good competitive mindset.

It's weird though that her first major competition she will be attempting it in is Worlds. Like, it might have made more sense to try it on the GP/GPF/Euros, not the biggest stage. But that just make for a bigger story and accomplishment if the first time she does it is at Worlds.

 

[wonderlen3000]

Tuk doesn't need the 3A at this point. Her main rival is only Rodinova and of course they are neck to neck. With Rodinova having slight edge in TEs, mainly due to spins and Tuk having slight edge in PCS, rightly so. But i can see that having 3A will give her at least 5-6 points lead only Rodinova and if she decides to do in both SP and LP, that is almost 10 points advantage. Almost unbeatable.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Actually, Tuks has little left to prove for herself this season.

I disagree. She has to prove that she can win a world championship with the pressure of coming in as the favorite. That is a tremendous burden and even doing it without the added pressure of the 3A will be challenging enough, which makes taking the risk all the more perplexing.

 

[sabinfire]

She has to prove that she can win a world championship with the pressure of coming in as the favorite. That is a tremendous burden and even doing it without the added pressure of the 3A will be challenging enough, which makes taking the risk all the more perplexing.

I posted a bit about this in the Fan Fest earlier.

I think when someone has more to lose than they have to gain, a risk like this is even more gutsy. This is not done out of necessity, a need to 'keep up' with others, or even to tip the odds in her favor.

With as many competitions she's been at this season, I could see wanting to set the bar even higher, and not keep doing what's already been done many times before. (Although I do agree with a comment above -- regardless of the results at Worlds, she's had a stellar season and has proven plenty. But, yes, World Champ title would be nice too...)

Maybe becoming World Champion and standing on the podium isn't enough. How many ladies have successfully landed a 3A at Worlds, and how many of them also became a World Champ at the same time? And while still a teenager? This seems like it's almost coming out of nowhere. If successful, would raise a lot more eyebrows than an 'ordinary' WC win.

Of course, this could still be Mishin mind-games, which would be more effective than ever now considering Liza's recently landed 3A in competition...

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Maybe becoming World Champion and standing on the podium isn't enough. How many ladies have successfully landed a 3A at Worlds, and how many of them also became a World Champ at the same time? And while still a teenager? This seems like it's almost coming out of nowhere. If successful, would raise a lot more eyebrows than an 'ordinary' WC win.

I don't think winning a WC would ever be "ordinary," regardless of the circumstances (especially for someone who hasn't ever won it). The strategy would be a good one if (a) she absolutely needed it or (b) she was so far ahead of the field that she would have to make several errors to give up the title. Neither of those happen to be the situation. This is her first world championships and she will be skating against competitors who, although don't have the same scoring potential, do have experience at worlds. She absolutely can not afford to meltdown in the short program and hope to keep up with Elena and others who skate clean.

 

[sabinfire]

She absolutely can not afford to meltdown in the short program and hope to keep up with Elena and others who skate clean.

I don't think any of the top contenders can afford to meltdown in the short program... and anyone could potentially meltdown at any time for any number of reasons, some that are completely beyond a skater's control.

I actually don't believe we will see a 3A at Worlds this month, regardless of any quote/interview leading up to the event.

However, I'd be happy to be wrong on that, because an attempt at 3A would be very exciting, one way or another... so I, for one, would support the addition -- if Liza/Mishin feel confident in doing so.

WC 2015 is only one event (though a big event)... long-term, I do not know the significance of the upcoming results. Putting so much importance/urgency into one event (even the Olympics) could be a contributing factor in someone 'melting down'... with or without the 3A.

 

[LRK]

I don't think winning a WC would ever be "ordinary," regardless of the circumstances (especially for someone who hasn't ever won it). The strategy would be a good one if (a) she absolutely needed it or (b) she was so far ahead of the field that she would have to make several errors to give up the title. Neither of those happen to be the situation. This is her first world championships and she will be skating against competitors who, although don't have the same scoring potential, do have experience at worlds. She absolutely can not afford to meltdown in the short program and hope to keep up with Elena and others who skate clean.

Just to note: It's her second.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Just to note: It's her second.

You are correct, I did forget that she competed two years ago.

 

[Globetrotter]

I disagree. She has to prove that she can win a world championship with the pressure of coming in as the favorite. That is a tremendous burden and even doing it without the added pressure of the 3A will be challenging enough, which makes taking the risk all the more perplexing.

Perhaps this will provide her with the realistic pressure cooker test for attempting a new and difficult element. I never consider landing something in practice as being gospel until the skater actually shows that he or she can deliver under the duress of competition. In this case, failing the 3A can mean falling behind too far and can't catch up realistically. That is the risk. The guts to be able to go for it and land it and then maintain the composure the rest of the way is something that no amount of practice can give you. I suspect that the pressure of all those upcoming young tsarinas snapping at her heels are also added incentive to go one up on them early. If Tuks can get a headstart and build up her competition mentality for the difficult elements, she gains the first mover advantage. True, she may end up losing a medal at Worlds but the experience gained will add on. So I say that it is fine for her to try as long as she is convinced and wanting to try. A bit of that Tonya Harding attitude at US Nats 91 LP that she wants to go for it, will help.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Tonya wasn't the favorite in 1991; Kristi was. Tonya did need to try it to pull ahead.

I think we all agree that the 3A is a risk, I just don't think it's a good risk if the goal is to win a WC. If you think the goal is to be the 4th skater to land the jump at worlds, then I suppose it's a good risk.

 

[lyndichee]

I am against the idea and just want to see a 3Lz-3T in the short however I feel like at this point Eliza needs something else to get her motivated.

Mao Asada once said that if she doesn't use the triple axel she is just not as motivated. Maybe it is the same with Eliza. I hope that even if it doesn't work out she walks away with no regrets.

 

[solani]

Tonya wasn't the favorite in 1991; Kristi was. Tonya did need to try it to pull ahead.

I disagree, Tonya was the favorite in 91. She was the reigning US champ, the international judges liked her better than the US judges and she was overscored at Worlds. Her program just wasn't good enough, Kristi was way ahead technically that day.