Evgenia Medvedeva

[Yatagarasu]

Where are all the doom and gloom predictions for him based on one so-so senior B showing?

I can answer that one. This is Yuzuru's usual for this time of year. He shows up at ACI and destroys his FS in particular (his level of difficulty is way beyond hers too, quads are a different ball game, man or woman). Go back and watch H&L or Seimei. And this is the answer to your question - everyone's used to this from Yuzuru because he skates the hardest programs, overall and they take time.

On the other hand, Zhenya has been clean from the get-go in her previous seasons so now even some of her fans are finding themselves surprised and somewhat worried. It's not just a period of adjustment for her; it's adjustment for them too which frankly would have happened even if she had stayed in Russia. She is getting 'older' and nobody can keep that sort of consistency steady, considering the requirements for it. Once well-meaning peeps who are worried sort this out in their own heads, the mood will pick up again I am sure. Those who are using this as some sort of prediction that she's done and are gleeful should be ignored, I mean what's the point in engaging? She'll shut them up in time.

In terms of her program - her FS is empty (unlike Yuzuru's). Yes, she has been injured but on the other hand, this is a bad program to take to SC. Her stamina should be good enough that by the time SC arrives it should be at least somewhat filled in, especially the first part of it.
I have to admit I am not a fan of the music cut either, now that we've finally seen the whole thing and this is why I think she should work on the floor with someone who knows about tango to try and get as much out of the expressions/positions as possible so that she can eek out the maximum out of this thing.

The SP is not my cup of tea, I don't like programs like these, and personally I think something with greater intensity would fit her way more, but on the other hand, it's good to stretch, Sandra's touch is everywhere and it is also why once she settles this program should work just fine for her. It'll be a good vehicle for her and she seems to enjoy it too. The FS though needs adjustments.

 

[Yoa]

Evgenia is at a real disadvantage this season. Katelyn Osmond even decided to take the season off! I think that kind of rest might have been good for Evgenia to really connect with her new team etc. but obviously her situation is different and she has to continue competing to keep her place and federation happy.

No, taking one season off would be a very bad idea. Katelyn's goal isn't next Olympics and there's a possibility that she will retire. Rules changed, skaters have to adjust to them. Skaters behave differently in competitions, they skate differenty under pressure. Her team have to figure those things out. Just compare her 2a in practice and in competiton. In my opinion, doing competitions is the best training Rika Kihira moved to seniors because she wants to have more chances to figure her 3A out in competition setting. And how many skaters struggled after taking a year off? Patrick Chan and Mao Asada for example. Here (12:05) Brian Boitano says that long breaks are bad in figure skating and why is it bad. And here's an article about various skaters coming back from a long break. Some succesfully and some not.

 

[IceCrystalChris]

I can answer that one. This is Yuzuru's usual for this time of year. He shows up at ACI and destroys his FS in particular (his level of difficulty is way beyond hers too, quads are a different ball game, man or woman). Go back and watch H&L or Seimei. And this is the answer to your question - everyone's used to this from Yuzuru because he skates the hardest programs, overall and they take time.

On the other hand, Zhenya has been clean from the get-go in her previous seasons so now even some of her fans are finding themselves surprised and somewhat worried. It's not just a period of adjustment for her; it's adjustment for them too which frankly would have happened even if she had stayed in Russia. She is getting 'older' and nobody can keep that sort of consistency steady, considering the requirements for it. Once well-meaning peeps who are worried sort this out in their own heads, the mood will pick up again I am sure. Those who are using this as some sort of prediction that she's done and are gleeful should be ignored, I mean what's the point in engaging? She'll shut them up in time.

In terms of her program - her FS is empty (unlike Yuzuru's). Yes, she has been injured but on the other hand, this is a bad program to take to SC. Her stamina should be good enough that by the time SC arrives it should be at least somewhat filled in, especially the first part of it.
I have to admit I am not a fan of the music cut either, now that we've finally seen the whole thing and this is why I think she should work on the floor with someone who knows about tango to try and get as much out of the expressions/positions as possible so that she can eek out the maximum out of this thing.

The SP is not my cup of tea, I don't like programs like these, and personally I think something with greater intensity would fit her way more, but on the other hand, it's good to stretch, Sandra's touch is everywhere and it is also why once she settles this program should work just fine for her. It'll be a good vehicle for her and she seems to enjoy it too. The FS though needs adjustments.

I don't know what you expect to be honest, she's only been with her new coaching team for over 2 months. I'd like to see any skater (including Yuzuru) to do any better if they were put in the same position as Zhenya. Frankly it's amazing she has two promising programs at all in such a short space of time. I might also add she scored the highest senior SP of the season so far, and only just lost out to a solid Bradie. I agree her programs need to be worked on but she wanted to do something fresh for herself and she just needs time to grow into them. I believe in her that she will return to winning ways eventually, even winning consistently again.

No bad feelings but I just thought I'd give my view on it.

 

[TGee]

No, taking one season off would be a very bad idea. Katelyn's goal isn't next Olympics and there's a possibility that she will retire. Rules changed, skaters have to adjust to them. Skaters behave differently in competitions, they skate differenty under pressure. Her team have to figure those things out. Just compare her 2a in practice and in competiton. In my opinion, doing competitions is the best training Rika Kihira moved to seniors because she wants to have more chances to figure her 3A out in competition setting. And how many skaters struggled after taking a year off? Patrick Chan and Mao Asada for example. Here (12:05) Brian Boitano says that long breaks are bad in figure skating and why is it bad. And here's an article about various skaters coming back from a long break. Some succesfully and some not.

We shouldn't spend a lot of time on other skaters as this is Zhenya's fan fest.

Zhenya seems to have needed to find a path towards a future in which she could imagine fulfilling her goals. An OGM is one of them, but exploring other kinds of expression in figure skating is another.

It sounds as though she looked at how others have fared trying to make the change within Russia, and did not see a clear path to achieve her goals. Perhaps some of the newer schools will offer that down the road a bit, but so far the senior ladies who have tried other options within Russia have not thrived.

So...one can imagine the thought process as she convalesced in Germany - - what is she healing for, who can help her get to the next step, what will RusFed agree to?

And it sounds as though the federation, once she was in the care of Russian specialists, was open to her exploring an option further afield. I don't think she could have called Brian without clearance to at least explore the possibility.

Once she had clearance to go for something new, why wait? Why not get through the challenge of transitions as soon as possible?

I would also like to note that Kaetlyn is a special case among those who are taking a break because she is still skating if not competing. She's training new jumps to meet the new requirements, is performing, and is doing demonstration seminars. So, not the kind of break for Zhenya most of us were thinking of.

 

[Wheelz]

Let’s not forget that Evgenia was competing with two serious injuries during the Olympic season. Coming back from those two injuries, moving to a different country, changing coaches and retooling her jumps in two months would be a monumental challenge for anyone.

Let’s have faith that Zhenya, Brian and Tracy are playing the long game here.

 

[Yatagarasu]

I don't know what you expect to be honest, she's only been with her new coaching team for over 2 months.

I think you need to read my post more carefully.

 

[Haikush]

I can answer that one. This is Yuzuru's usual for this time of year. He shows up at ACI and destroys his FS in particular (his level of difficulty is way beyond hers too, quads are a different ball game, man or woman). Go back and watch H&L or Seimei. And this is the answer to your question - everyone's used to this from Yuzuru because he skates the hardest programs, overall and they take time.

On the other hand, Zhenya has been clean from the get-go in her previous seasons so now even some of her fans are finding themselves surprised and somewhat worried. It's not just a period of adjustment for her; it's adjustment for them too which frankly would have happened even if she had stayed in Russia. She is getting 'older' and nobody can keep that sort of consistency steady, considering the requirements for it. Once well-meaning peeps who are worried sort this out in their own heads, the mood will pick up again I am sure. Those who are using this as some sort of prediction that she's done and are gleeful should be ignored, I mean what's the point in engaging? She'll shut them up in time.

In terms of her program - her FS is empty (unlike Yuzuru's). Yes, she has been injured but on the other hand, this is a bad program to take to SC. Her stamina should be good enough that by the time SC arrives it should be at least somewhat filled in, especially the first part of it.
I have to admit I am not a fan of the music cut either, now that we've finally seen the whole thing and this is why I think she should work on the floor with someone who knows about tango to try and get as much out of the expressions/positions as possible so that she can eek out the maximum out of this thing.

The SP is not my cup of tea, I don't like programs like these, and personally I think something with greater intensity would fit her way more, but on the other hand, it's good to stretch, Sandra's touch is everywhere and it is also why once she settles this program should work just fine for her. It'll be a good vehicle for her and she seems to enjoy it too. The FS though needs adjustments.

Is there anything you DO like about her programs? so critical

 

[chopinskate]

Is there anything you DO like about her programs? so critical

Why should anyone have to?

 

[skatingfan200]

It sounds as though she looked at how others have fared trying to make the change within Russia, and did not see a clear path to achieve her goals. Perhaps some of the newer schools will offer that down the road a bit, but so far the senior ladies who have tried other options within Russia have not thrived.

So...one can imagine the thought process as she convalesced in Germany - - what is she healing for, who can help her get to the next step, what will RusFed agree to?

And it sounds as though the federation, once she was in the care of Russian specialists, was open to her exploring an option further afield. I don't think she could have called Brian without clearance to at least explore the possibility.

Once she had clearance to go for something new, why wait? Why not get through the challenge of transitions as soon as possible?

Yep, Rus Fed was aware.
Orser:" She said she had the support of the Russian fed, which I feel is very important."
https://vk.com/doc31506737_470164538?hash=9f2c2178d8ff4a19c9&dl=79a6ae23953aa9a0da

 

[bubblecherry]

I can answer that one. This is Yuzuru's usual for this time of year. He shows up at ACI and destroys his FS in particular

On the other hand, Zhenya has been clean from the get-go in her previous seasons so now even some of her fans are finding themselves surprised and somewhat worried.

This is simply not true. She's made mistakes im the beginning of the season before.

Why should anyone have to?

No one has to like her programs. But you also don't have to go into her FANFEST and say only negative and untrue things. It ruins the mood. We can share our opinions (good or bad) but to make everything into a negative, say untrue things, and compare her to others + make her seem less-than is inappropriate for a fanfest.

 

[yoloaxel]

Is there anything you DO like about her programs? so critical

Being critical of the programs is not wrong, even in a fan fest.

I myself really like the short and find it very very promising, but I do think that the FS needs a lot MORE. More choreography, more transitions, more interpretation. I understand that the issue right now is her stamina and that they will be adding, but I sure do hope that they start making these additions before Skate Canada or her PCS will not be as high as they need it to be. I like the music but I think the cut is not an easy one, so it doesn't help her with the interpretation. In short, I think the FS needs work and I think they know it as well. I hope they will do this work asap since SCI is in a month, but I trust that they know and they'll be working on it as much as her stamina allows them to.

 

[Fluture]

Is there anything you DO like about her programs? so critical

I think you can calm down, Yatagarasu is everything but a Zhenya hater in disguise.

One doesn‘t have to like her programs, everyone has a different taste. The important thing in the comment was: While the SP might not be to everyone‘s preference, it will be a good vehicle for Zhenya and she‘s clearly happy trying out new things. The criticism of the FS was more “harsh“ even though I wouldn‘t call it this way. In fact, I‘d actually agree. Zhenya has never done a FS like this before, all her programs were somewhat similar in style and now she has two completely new styles to adjust to. One of them being tango which is clearly difficult to pull off. It‘s not easy to get into the feel of a tango and while I support Zhenya all the way, I feel like it might have been a better idea to use something a bit more similar to her old style as her FS but also let her explore a new side in the SP. She could have made her Memory EX into a program for example (or something like this at least) and it would have been wonderful. This way she wouldn‘t have had to get into TWO completely unknown styles for her, plus reworking her jumps, plus dealing with past injury plus moving to another country and thus already being later than usual to start working on the programs. It‘s a bit much, if you ask me. We all know how determined Zhenya is and that‘s probably why she decided to go for it. But strategically, it might have been better to safe the tango for next year. Wilson would have had more time to think of choreography (I don‘t think it‘s easy to make a tango program in such a short amount of time) and Zhenya would have had the off-season to study tango moves and expressions and really get the feeling of it. I just think it might have been less stressful.

This being said, I probably have to add that this is just my opinion. I will support Zhenya whatever she decides to do but I think sometimes her determination makes her be a bit stubborn which results in her trying to do so many things at one time that she kind of overworks herself. It was the same with her injury, when she insisted on competing despite of it and even wanted to go to RusNats so badly that officials basically had to talk her out of it. This isn‘t a bad quality per se, it likely means that she never needs to get pushed because she just has that drive and love for the sport within herself. But it’s just that sometimes you need someone to balance that out and say: ”Okay, listen, I know you want to do all that and you will but let‘s take one step at a time.“ Eteri knew how to do this because she‘d known Zhenya for so long. Brian and his team will know this, too, I‘m sure. They probably just thought “Let‘s just let the girl try music she always wanted to do“ because this season is an adjustment period anyway. I, personally, am happy if Zhenya is happy so I won‘t say anything against her decision. I just think she could have made an easier choice this season. Whether it would have been smarter, too... who knows. But kudos to Zhenya for being so gutsy and going for it. That‘s the girl we know. I hope she succeeds to improve her FS with the little time she has and slays that competition at SC.

 

[chopinskate]

No one has to like her programs. But you also don't have to go into her FANFEST and say only negative and untrue things. It ruins the mood. We can share our opinions (good or bad) but to make everything into a negative, say untrue things, and compare her to others + make her seem less-than is inappropriate for a fanfest.

Since you are fine with opinions, even "bad" ones, what that poster wrote is their opinion. There wasn't anything "untrue" there. Unless they're lying about their opinion. As for negativity, you're free to view realism that way.

 

[bubblecherry]

Since you are fine with opinions, even "bad" ones, what that poster wrote is their opinion. There wasn't anything "untrue" there. Unless they're lying about their opinion. As for negativity, you're free to view realism that way.

It's untrue to say she never had problems in the beginning of the season. It's inappropriate to insinuate that she couldn't have a hard time with her programs because there's a man that has higher difficulty out there having hard time with his. What an unfair and intellectually dishonest comparison.

"Realism" =/= negativity. Just as it doesn't equal positivity. It seems you're the only one to believe one of those.

 

[Fluture]

This is simply not true. She's made mistakes im the beginning of the season before.



No one has to like her programs. But you also don't have to go into her FANFEST and say only negative and untrue things. It ruins the mood. We can share our opinions (good or bad) but to make everything into a negative, say untrue things, and compare her to others + make her seem less-than is inappropriate for a fanfest.

She has indeed made mistakes before but her choreography was always about 95% finished at the beginning of the season. Now we have a FS that needs A LOT more, choreography wise and transition wise. But to be fair, she‘s in a special situation and has never had to deal with something like what she experienced this season and off-season. So, I‘d say her programs not being ready is the logical consequence of this.

I have read the comment and there is nothing that is inappropriate or overtly negative in it. It‘s rather reasonable in fact. We’re all Zhenya‘s fans but we also have an opinion and can express it. I‘m sure Zhenya wouldn‘t want her fans to just blindly follow her, kneel in front of her feet and bow to her greatness. (Even though she‘d probably deserve it. ) I’m just joking. Seriously, I bet she wants honesty as long as it’s not a malicious comment hidden behind false worry.
We as her fans sometimes are critical but we‘re not badmouthing her in any way. In fact, everyone who commented on her FS or criticized it so far also expressed their hope in Brian, his team and her to make the necessary changes by the time the first GP assignment are around.

 

[yoloaxel]

She has indeed made mistakes before but her choreography was always about 95% finished at the beginning of the season. Now we have a FS that needs A LOT more, choreography wise and transition wise. But to be fair, she‘s in a special situation and has never had to deal with something like what she experienced this season and off-season. So, I‘d say her programs not being ready is the logical consequence of this.

I have read the comment and there is nothing that is inappropriate or overtly negative in it. It‘s rather reasonable in fact.

Yes to all of this. We can all see that her FS isn't as ready as her previous ones were at this time of the season, and it's reasonable for us to hope that it gets filled with choreo and transitions as the season progresses (hopefully, already some changes at SCI). Obviously there are reasons why Zhenya's preparation is behind schedule this season, nobody is negating that. But it's an evident fact that she was readier in the previous seasons than she is now, especially when it comes to her FS and stamina - there's nothing wrong in pointing that out!

 

[Ophelia]

Since you are fine with opinions, even "bad" ones, what that poster wrote is their opinion. There wasn't anything "untrue" there. Unless they're lying about their opinion. As for negativity, you're free to view realism that way.

All of this.

The bending over backwards to justify Meds rather generic and empty programs is too much.

the SP is passable, but the FS? Choreography aside, Wilson had a great piece of music at his disposal that he put together to equal a snooze fest. Only the step seq is exciting.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Goodness, somehow I end up not being a Zhenya fan every few months in this fanfest. I guess I was due again

It's untrue to say she never had problems in the beginning of the season.

I apologize for the lack of precision in my wording.
She has never had this kind of trouble in the beginning of the season though. You're of course welcome to point at a season where she did.

It's inappropriate to insinuate that she couldn't have a hard time with her programs because there's a man that has higher difficulty out there having hard time with his. What an unfair and intellectually dishonest comparison.

And I never did.

The question was

Where are all the doom and gloom predictions for him [Yuzuru Hanyu] based on one so-so senior B showing?

so my answer was in regards to that.
Now you may not like it but it won't change the reality that top men have multiple quads programs that automatically raise the difficulty of executing them, thus the notion of falling multiple times, especially at the start of the season and this affecting the program overall is way more acceptable to people in general. The higher the difficulty, the higher the risk.
This is clearly seen in Sasha Trusova programs, as well as Anna's now, where the second quads come in, falls do as well.

That, coupled with Yuzuru Hanyu's regular patterns of season progression, cuts off the "doom and gloom" predictions. This is how he is. And has been for a while now.

Now this is not how Zhenya has been so far. Even with minor wobbles, her choreography was for the most part finished, and it was a matter of fine tuning. Quite different from her current program issues (that are understandable and I never said or implied otherwise; I just said what the current situation is).
Also please note I never said that her outing was a bad one. I only went to explain why even some of her fans may think so at the start, while at the same time I dismissed the antis as irrelevant, because I firmly believe there is no point in engaging those and also because

She'll shut them up in time.

I suppose that is negativity as well.

I have no desire to repeat why I think some of her fans are disappointed/afraid/stressed, and why I think all those shall pass; you're welcome to re-read that.
Again note, I never said I was disappointed/frightened/stressed, or any of those things.

"Realism" =/= negativity. Just as it doesn't equal positivity. It seems you're the only one to believe one of those.

This part is truly bizarre.

To quote my own post:

[..]on the other hand, it's good to stretch, Sandra's touch is everywhere and it is also why once she settles this program should work just fine for her. It'll be a good vehicle for her and she seems to enjoy it too.

This is negativity apparently because this type of SPs are not my cup of tea. Amazing.

Criticism of her FS might be considered negative but I do not believe I have written anything unreasonable. I also never criticized her. Her program was choreographed by David Wilson, so any fault is his, not hers.
Again, if you'll note I said

Her stamina should be good enough that by the time SC arrives it should be at least somewhat filled in, especially the first part of it.

That is not a criticism of her performance at ACI. It is my opinion on what should follow by the time she hits the Grand Prix circuit. Zhenya is in a very particular position right now. On one hand, she has a clear goal of a 4-year road and 2022 Olympics at the end of that road. On the other hand, she is also a Russian lady who will have to navigate the intense competition for 3 World and Olympic spots, especially from next season on.

In my opinion it will be crucial, and horribly difficult, for Brian and the team to balance out the need to build her back up and then expand further on that, while making sure she does not lose her reputation with the judges. Make no mistake, she cannot afford to. She needs her own, individual, non-Fed reliant reputation for the years to come and this season is crucial for that.
Now I firmly believe the better the programs, the better the chances and currently the Free, not the Short, is problematic. Do I believe TCC has a team that is capable of figuring out the solution to this very difficult problem? Yes, and I have never said that they were either a)not working on it or b)are incapable of it or that c)she's not capable of it.

As for realism or reality it is a plain fact that her Free Program needs a lot of work. It needs more choreography, especially transitions, and this will help her connect to the program as well. It is also not negative at all to say I believe she should work on the floor with a tango expert in order to establish more of a connection to the music and gain a better understanding of expression connected to it.
It is also a fact the music cut is 'low' on the tango part. Now whether one likes this or not is an opinion, but currently the music is that.

Personally I think Zhenya is one of those skaters whose biggest trump card is precisely her interpretation/performance. In order to fully utilize it she must first fully understand and connect to the music, which she is currently not doing because the music cut is not making this easy. There are not enough opportunities in the Free such as it is right now to allow her to fully shine.

It is not negative toward Zhenya herself to think she should have a better program, which an improved version of this FS would be, because that can only help her.

This being said, I probably have to add that this is just my opinion. I will support Zhenya whatever she decides to do but I think sometimes her determination makes her be a bit stubborn which results in her trying to do so many things at one time that she kind of overworks herself.

I agree with that, though I think TCC folks are capable of handling over-achievers so they will know what to do. Her drive is unbelievable but it has to be tempered with patience and I think she'll have plenty of help there. Zhenya herself is also maturing so it'll probably come easier with time.
In re to the Free, I think she is also going to take on the feedback from ACI and then talk it over with both Brian, and David. She hasn't gotten here by refusing to take initiative, on the contrary and I'm sure she has her own opinions about all of this, and so do they. They'll work it out.

Anyway, I'll bow out.
I'm not really a person who gushes about everything, so hopefully it will all work out, and hang in there everyone. It'll be fine.

 

[bubblecherry]

She has indeed made mistakes before but her choreography was always about 95% finished at the beginning of the season. Now we have a FS that needs A LOT more, choreography wise and transition wise. But to be fair, she‘s in a special situation and has never had to deal with something like what she experienced this season and off-season. So, I‘d say her programs not being ready is the logical consequence of this.

I have read the comment and there is nothing that is inappropriate or overtly negative in it. It‘s rather reasonable in fact. We’re all Zhenya‘s fans but we also have an opinion and can express it. I‘m sure Zhenya wouldn‘t want her fans to just blindly follow her, kneel in front of her feet and bow to her greatness. (Even though she‘d probably deserve it. ) I’m just joking. Seriously, I bet she wants honesty as long as it’s not a malicious comment hidden behind false worry.
We as her fans sometimes are critical but we‘re not badmouthing her in any way. In fact, everyone who commented on her FS or criticized it so far also expressed their hope in Brian, his team and her to make the necessary changes by the time the first GP assignment are around.

I still believe it's inappropriate to bring up Yuzu and say that she can't have trouble with her programs in the same way that he does because his programs are harder because that's completely unfair. But other than that I appreciate you expanding on this opinion and I see where you're coming from and agree with much of this. Sorry to those in this thread if I jumped the gun before.

All of this.

The bending over backwards to justify Meds rather generic and empty programs is too much.

Oh, please. Some people like her programs. Some people think there is potential in her programs in the future. Some people dislike her programs but are hoping they get better. Some people simply hate her programs. All of this is fine, no one has to bend over backwards to do anything. I personally hate her SP but I'm not going to reiterate that every single day because it's redundant to do so and only ruins the mood for people who want to come here and have a positive place for Zhenya. Criticism is fine but when your criticism includes something untrue or makes unfair comparisons, then no, that's not appropriate. Now, I had an exchange with that user (as you can see above) and understand that POV more once they expanded. I think no matter if you'd prefer to look at things positively or give harsh critism, perhaps we should all try to understand eachother more and make this a better atmosphere for all fans and for Zhenya.

 

[Jeanie19]

I have a great exhibition song for her.
Anything but ordinary by April Lavigne. Because it suits her and this season will be anything but ordinary. .