Evgenia Medvedeva

[schizoanalyst]

Honestly, Brian’s biggest mistakes were just the constant layout changes and putting enormous pressure in the SP. Her consistency over the years came from both internal confidence and the fact she had basically done the same layouts and very similar transitions for years.

I’m sorry but the SP layout was ridiculous from the start. A lutz coupled with a backloaded one-shot 3-3? It puts enormous pressure on her in a season where they are re-working her jumps, her skating skills, and trying an artistic pivot. There was absolutely no reason to do that and just put *far* too much pressure on her. Then to just throw it out the window right before Russian nationals and expect her to learn a completely new layout and choreography again.

She was most successful in the LP - but I don’t think the constant changes of the layout have served her well either. What are we doing today? Are we doing two lutz’s or two flips? Are we doing 2A+3T or 3F+3T? Are we doing 2A+3Lo or 3S+3Lo? Are we putting the loop here or an axel here? Just constant shifts. She’s already been so uncomfortable this season - why are we just making her less and less familiar with her material throughout the season.

I think Brian has the potential to help her long-term - to really improve her technique and skating skills - but the really bad outcome of this season is, I think, in large part due to his insane layout decisions which make no sense. Particularly for someone trying to regain their confidence and their level of comfort. He just put her in a position where she would be maximally uncomfortable with her content at all times. I think this move will be in the long-run good for her, but I hope the team has learned that this is *not* the way to build confidence. This isn't men's where she can afford to flub a few jumps and probably still win.

 

[DeeDee18]

Honestly, Brian’s biggest mistakes were just the constant layout changes and putting enormous pressure in the SP. Her consistency over the years came from both internal confidence and the fact she had basically done the same layouts and very similar transitions for years.

I’m sorry but the SP layout was ridiculous from the start. A lutz coupled with a backloaded one-shot 3-3? It puts enormous pressure on her in a season where they are re-working her jumps, her skating skills, and trying an artistic pivot. There was absolutely no reason to do that and just put *far* too much pressure on her. Then to just throw it out the window right before Russian nationals and expect her to learn a completely new layout and choreography again.

She was most successful in the LP - but I don’t think the constant changes of the layout have served her well either. What are we doing today? Are we doing two lutz’s or two flips? Are we doing 2A+3T or 3F+3T? Are we doing 2A+3Lo or 3S+3Lo? Are we putting the loop here or an axel here? Just constant shifts. She’s already been so uncomfortable this season - why are we just making her less and less familiar with her material throughout the season.

I think Brian has the potential to help her long-term - to really improve her technique and skating skills - but the really bad outcome of this season is, I think, in large part due to his insane layout decisions which make no sense. Particularly for someone trying to regain their confidence and their level of comfort. He just put her in a position where she would be maximally uncomfortable with her content at all times. I think this move will be in the long-run good for her, but I hope the team has learned that this is *not* the way to build confidence. This isn't men's where she can afford to flub a few jumps and probably still win.

I agree 100%, although I think it can be justified by how she didn't do too well with the new layout, so they made it easier (sub. some jumps/combos) but then to max points it got shuffled around, and so on and so forth

 

[Ophelia]

First of all, TSL never confirms anything. They got the new SP right but I don‘t see any golden dress anywhere, do you? It‘s kind of their thing, there‘s some truth and truly insightful stuff in their words and then there‘s some made up rumours and gossip, too. It‘s their way to get people talking about them, it‘s their way to be successful. Which is okay. But I‘ll always take everything they say with a grain of salt because you can basically never know whether it‘s the rumours part or the real part you‘re getting.

And what I also don‘t think they got right is that Brian went into this season expecting her to be World Champ. When did he say that? I don‘t remember an interview like that. I do remember that he said before Nationals that “if Zhenya is clean she can win this“ to which I was just thinking.. oh boy. Yeah, she can theoretically but she’ll need to be clean first. The pressure is on her. That‘s not as easy as it sounds like.

1) Gold dress could have been one option among several that was ultimately bypassed

2) No coach ever publicly states that they expect their skaters to win so-and-so competition, so this was insider info about Orser's expectations that were expressed within TCC, which TSL learned about via Doug Haw. As we have seen in this interview, Orser & Co. watch TSL and they're using Doug Haw as their conduit for communication.

 

[Metis]

TSL bringing some verrrry interesting insights into the coaching situation. All but confirms that TCC went at the coaching with an incorrect mindset this season.

I always wonder how much any “Brian thinks...” comments are Doug Haw spinning Dave spinning the viewer.

 

[Ophelia]

^Look, there is no way that Orser doesn't know Haw is running off to TSL yapping his mouth off. If Orser had any issues with Haw's "spinning", he would've put his foot down a long time ago. I'm willing to bet that TCC is using TSL as its mouthpiece to push certain news out (e.g. Med's new program).

Secondly, a big part of TSL's draw to viewers is the "insider access" that they have, which includes the interviews with coaches, choreographers, etc. that they can arrange. TSL relies on those networks to sustain its viewership. TSL would not risk those relationships by spinning absurdities.

 

[bubblecherry]

I do agree that there were some mistakes being made this season by Brian and his team. It‘s obvious that he‘s only now truly realising the insane depth Russia has in ladies. That yes, a 62 SP will get you in 14th out of 18 competitors. That yes, there are girls doing quads who will move up to seniors next year. And that yes, even if they happen to lose all their jumps to puberty, once the next Olympics are there, another bunch of 15 year old first year seniors will be ready with the jump arsenal on their pre-pubescent body to completely dominate the ladies event.

It was about time he realised this. That reworking Zhenya‘s whole technique will not get her on top again just like that. It will not be as easy and I‘m thankful that he‘s stopped saying, her titles are only the tip of the iceberg and she‘ll be a champion again soon. Because in Russian ladies figure skating... it will be harder. Reworking her technique is truly the only chance Zhenya has for the future to even continue and that‘s why she‘s taken this path. But one knows whether that will be enough or not. It will surely be difficult as hell. I think he‘s getting it now, though. Just like Zhenya is getting the TCC philosophy more. Nationals while on paper and for someone who just looks at the actual result and score sheet, unsuccessful for a two time world champion, looks like it has switched something in both of them. I think they - Brian and Zhenya - have learned important lessons from this competition, more than they would have taken away with a medal. And it‘s great to see Zhenya happy. Yes, she didn‘t qualify for Euros or Worlds but maybe that‘s a blessing in disguise and just what she needs to heal properly and get to work on her programs for next season now already.

But TSL... come on. Yeah, the FS isn‘t the best program but to say it‘s not working for her? She sold the heck out of that here and at SCI. And also... if she gets to go to Worlds or Euros (which she won‘t but since they were talking about this) changing the FS just for that would be NOT a good idea. Better keep a FS she‘s having fun with and a new SP than having TWO new programs that on paper might be better but she fails to pull off due to a lack of muscle memory.

And what I also don‘t think they got right is that Brian went into this season expecting her to be World Champ. When did he say that? I don‘t remember an interview like that. I do remember that he said before Nationals that “if Zhenya is clean she can win this“ to which I was just thinking.. oh boy. Yeah, she can theoretically but she’ll need to be clean first. The pressure is on her. That‘s not as easy as it sounds like.

But to win Worlds? No. And like I said, I think his mindset is changing, too. He‘s truly devoted to Zhenya and whatever might happen, he‘s with her for the long haul. Which is great. They both learn from this and yeah, I think this is a good thing. They have to get to know each other better, such things take time.

I agree with this entire post. I do agree with TSL that Brian, Zhenya, and the whole team were in over their heads going into the season. I don't believe that Brian ever thought Zhenya would be World Champion this year, though. He specifically from the beginning said it was a long term strategy and she WON'T be World Champion every single time. That's just ridiculous to even say. Now, I do think he (and the whole team) thought this season would be at least relatively success. They definitely thought she'd make the GPF and Euros/Worlds. You can see how the stress and disappointment weighed on them throughout the season but I definitely think that changed at RusNats. In my opinion, while this may be a subpar season, I think the lessons that they've all learned as a team, and what they've experienced is incredibly important. There was no way that Zhenya could've made it to the next Olys with 4 great and consistent seasons. She was bound to "implode" at some point. It's better that it happens now then, say, 2 years down the road. It's just unrealistic. Her past 4 (?) seasons have already been incredibly success and to keep that up as an adult was just non sustainable. I'm glad they've learned these important lessons now, and are hopefully learning how to move forward from it. I'm optimistic. I think both Zhenya and Brian and the entire team have learned so many valuable lessons from the entire experience of this season and after RusNats I feel and I hope that everything is finally REALLY clicking. I'm very optimistic about the next steps forward. And while she may never have "perfect" seasons again, I'm confident that a lot of the mistakes from this season won't happen again.

I also agree with TSL that she should really focus a lot on the basics. More than just a couple of edge classes with Tracy. This loooong off season is the perfect time to really HAMMER the basics into her when she doesn't have the pressure to compete anytime soon. I also agree that they just need to work to continue making incremental changes to problem areas in her jumps and just get her two solid 3-3s and leave it alone. I don't really know what they should do about a 3A or 4S, TBH. If Brian didn't mention it in his interview, I wouldn't even bring it up, but clearly it's on their radar. On one hand, this is the PERFECT time to start really working towards one of those. 6 months off season is probably a dream to anyone who wants to learn new jumps. I feel like she should work on her basics more (getting the speed and height and control with her legs instead of arms) before they start going for harder jumps, but the way this loooooong off season (6 months until summer shows, 7-8 months until summer comps) has been presented to them on a silver platter, it'd almost be silly to NOT take this opportunity (unless there are serious health concerns of course). Who knows if she'll ever have time like this to learn new jumps again. What does everyone else think of this?

Wow, this is a really long post, is anyone still reading? Lol. Anyway I do agree with them that she should start working on new programs sooner rather than later however I do NOT agree with their thoughts on her current programs. Her new short is great and she was really PERFORMING it. How could you say that she "lost" her performance quality after seeing it? Ridiculous. Her long isn't really a program you "perform" in the same way we've seen her programs be in the past. It's not her best program ever, but I think it's grown A LOT over the season. She's really learned how to sell it and skate in this style. I really enjoy it and I think it's one of those programs that expands her portfolio and teaches her a lot. It's not the best or best suited for her but it's something we'll look back on and say "yeah, she grew so much because she had this program, it was a vehicle for her to do even greater things."

Whew, sorry for the long post.

 

[Heleng]

I’m egregiously late (judging by the number of posts since her FS yesterday lol), but wanted to express my congratulations to Evgenia for her wonderful performance, and for her mental strength in putting behind her SP. There were noticeable improvements between SC, which I saw in person, and here in both the technical aspects and performance. And she brought that Evgenia spark that showed everyone she’s not going away.

 

[Metis]

^Look, there is no way that Orser doesn't know Haw is running off to TSL yapping his mouth off. If Orser had any issues with Haw's "spinning", he would've put his foot down a long time ago. I'm willing to bet that TCC is using TSL as its mouthpiece to push certain news out (e.g. Med's new program).

Secondly, a big part of TSL's draw to viewers is the "insider access" that they have, which includes the interviews with coaches, choreographers, etc. that they can arrange. TSL relies on those networks to sustain its viewership. TSL would not risk those relationships by spinning absurdities.

True. I just don’t always buy what Haw is selling, not 100% — I guess I buy 80% of it, but not 100%? I trust TSL’s insider knowledge and I agree, TCC is definitely using TSL to put out info like the change in the short, but I’m not sure how much I buy that Haw is accurately conveying Brian’s thoughts. He ... tends to get out over his skis. But I don’t have a real reason to doubt him, either.

I found Orser’s comments in the interview Jackie did a bit more revealing — or was it the interview with Inside Skating? He said that both he and Medvedeva were really waiting for two clean skates, and that once those happened, there’d be a real shift in mentality. You can feel them trying to force that kind of moment, I think. Though Medvedeva seems more relaxed than Brian at this point? I think she seems to know where she is the process and has a realistic understanding of the rest of her season. Maybe unburdening herself on how she feels about the hate helped, as well as the reception she got at Russian nationals. Brian still seems to be dying for that set of clean skates, though.

 

[uffda]

I still think it is possible that Brian's words about Zhenya's mom were just a joke. TSL could just add this to some previous experience of Brian having skaters with overprotective and "over the roof" parents, they could also add stories about Lipnitskaya's mom to it. So they end up with the fear of Zhenya's mom pulling her off TCC. And I don't believe this has even the slightest chance to happen. Zhenya knew that it is a long-term project, and her goal was not winning Worlds in 2019, but Olympics 2022 (and that's what she has on her phone screen). And I believe her mom understands that as well.

 

[NoviceFan]

While it is true that some information that first originated from TLS were proven true (i.e., 2A-3Lo combo, new SP), I take everything they say with a grain of salt (the way one should anything they are told). Not necessarily because they are malicious or that they intend to mislead, but simply because they do not have first hand knowledge of most of the stuff they are talking about with regard to Evgenia. Essentially, what we are hearing is hearsay of a hearsay - have you ever played a game of telephone?

So when they talk about anything, (for example, Evgenia's mom), I think...maybe true, maybe not true, maybe mostly true, maybe most untrue, maybe some is true....

I find their videos entertaining, and mostly to fill the gap between Evgenia appearances...

 

[uffda]

Zhenya just posted a story on her Instagram -- she's home!

 

[Ophelia]

True. I just don’t always buy what Haw is selling, not 100% — I guess I buy 80% of it, but not 100%? I trust TSL’s insider knowledge and I agree, TCC is definitely using TSL to put out info like the change in the short, but I’m not sure how much I buy that Haw is accurately conveying Brian’s thoughts. He ... tends to get out over his skis. But I don’t have a real reason to doubt him, either.

I found Orser’s comments in the interview Jackie did a bit more revealing — or was it the interview with Inside Skating? He said that both he and Medvedeva were really waiting for two clean skates, and that once those happened, there’d be a real shift in mentality. You can feel them trying to force that kind of moment, I think. Though Medvedeva seems more relaxed than Brian at this point? I think she seems to know where she is the process and has a realistic understanding of the rest of her season. Maybe unburdening herself on how she feels about the hate helped, as well as the reception she got at Russian nationals. Brian still seems to be dying for that set of clean skates, though.

I agree with you on both counts.

I was pegging the "buy" at 85% myself. TSL might not get the nuances spot on, but they usually get the general gist correct. The claim about Orser expecting Med to win Worlds was said with too much direct assurance to not have credibility to it. It's also a rather "explosive" claim, and not one TSL would just make up on the spot, especially if Orser is taking note of what TSL says (e.g. expressing annoyance over TSL criticizing Med's spins).

I too, also feel like Med and Orser were trying to "force" the clean skates. I wonder if the coaching clause includes time requirements, as in if results aren't seen in X amount of time, the agreement is off. Orser has been dialing up the "1.5 years adjustment period" mantra in all his recent interviews, as well as alluding to impatience on the RusFed / Med camp's side in the Wilson interview by steelily saying that "they're going to stick to the plan".

 

[melgirl25]

Zhenya just posted a story on her Instagram -- she's home!

In Moscow?

 

[uffda]

In Moscow?

Yes, it seems like she's staying in Russia for the New Year.
Just to clarify -- New Year is a bigger and a more important holiday than Christmas in Russia, and it is more cherished in families. So if they got a short break from practices, it makes sense to spend some time with family

 

[Metis]

I was pegging the "buy" at 85% myself. TSL might not get the nuances spot on, but they usually get the general gist correct. The claim about Orser expecting Med to win Worlds was said with too much direct assurance to not have credibility to it. It's also a rather "explosive" claim, and not one TSL would just make up on the spot, especially if Orser is taking note of what TSL says (e.g. expressing annoyance over TSL criticizing Med's spins).

I would love to know when the comment about Med winning Worlds this season was made and/or more information on that belief of Orser’s. Because it’s curious — there’s clearly more than we fully know going on with Med physically, and Brian would have had knowledge of her condition, the stability of her jumps, etc. Did he think that or say something to Doug along those lines when the coaching change first happened? Around ACI? IdF? Was it something he said in response to Russian media drama? Who knows. But for TSL to be saying that... that’s even more interesting. It seems like TCC is leaning in to the “we expected too much too soon” narrative.

I too, also feel like Med and Orser were trying to "force" the clean skates. I wonder if the coaching clause includes time requirements, as in if results aren't seen in X amount of time, the agreement is off. Orser has been dialing up the "1.5 years adjustment period" mantra in all his recent interviews, as well as alluding to impatience on the RusFed / Med camp's side in the Wilson interview by steelily saying that "they're going to stick to the plan".

I wonder if it’s less RusFed and more Med’s mother — largely because I can’t imagine Orser agreeing to a crazy federation’s demands, as TCC has already made it clear they don’t play that game. On the other hand, Medvedeva moving to TCC is an opportunity you don’t turn down, so maybe he did? Mysteries upon mysteries.

I think he’s hammering the “one and a half years” timeline in part due to the fact that this season wasn’t a tremendous success. The same was said about Javi, Yuzu, etc., but Javi wasn’t really facing a deep field at Spanish nationals and Yuzu... the thing about quads is that no one expects the guys to be consistent. And people forget Medvedeva didn’t have two clean skates until the Olympics last season, so the fact that she’s falling now isn’t really that astonishing when you consider all of the Olympic season — the trademark consistency was already eroding.

 

[NoviceFan]

At least in one interview that Brian did in February 2018, he referred to the year and a half timeline:


"And we take a lot of pride in it, and it takes a lot of time, and people who buy into it – it shows, eventually. We always say, when we take on a new skater, it takes a year and a half for it to come to finish. And we’re usually dead on. But there’s a lot of kids who don’t last a year and a half. Because they’re not seeing the change. And the parents are not seeing the change, and the Federation’s not seeing the change. So then they take them and they go somewhere else, where they get a quick fix."

It seems to be that it is his sincerely held belief rather than him being defensive - but that's just how I see it.

See the article here: http://www.insideskating.net/2018/0...ing-transitions-choreography-that-makes-sense

I think he’s hammering the “one and a half years” timeline in part due to the fact that this season wasn’t a tremendous success. The same was said about Javi, Yuzu, etc., but Javi wasn’t really facing a deep field at Spanish nationals and Yuzu... the thing about quads is that no one expects the guys to be consistent. And people forget Medvedeva didn’t have two clean skates until the Olympics last season, so the fact that she’s falling now isn’t really that astonishing when you consider all of the Olympic season — the trademark consistency was already eroding.

 

[DeeDee18]

I don’t understand why ppl keep thinking that Medvedeva’s mother keeps interfering — the facts are that TSL is a gossip source and Medvedeva’s mother didn’t interfere with the tutberidze team. Plus, I’m pretty sure it was mentioned somewhere that her mom doesn’t know English well.

The whole part about taking Medvedeva back to Russia sounds off - her mom literally agreed to put her life on hold because she believed in her daughter and dream. They spend 3.5 hours talking to orser and I imagine many more hours thinking about everything before making the decision. I doubt they’re just gonna pack their bags after 6 months.

 

[theharleyquinn]

I don’t understand why ppl keep thinking that Medvedeva’s mother keeps interfering — the facts are that TSL is a gossip source and Medvedeva’s mother didn’t interfere with the tutberidze team. Plus, I’m pretty sure it was mentioned somewhere that her mom doesn’t know English well.

The whole part about taking Medvedeva back to Russia sounds off - her mom literally agreed to put her life on hold because she believed in her daughter and dream. They spend 3.5 hours talking to orser and I imagine many more hours thinking about everything before making the decision. I doubt they’re just gonna pack their bags after 6 months.

Well Brian did make the comment about her mom in the kiss & cry for what it's worth. Even if TSL hadn't said anything, the comment was interesting. Brian takes a lot of risks in the kiss & cry with hot mics. Also, the cultural barrier can't be understated. It's a different thing to trust a Russian coach and Russian coaching system with your child than to trust a Canadian coach with a very Western, independent-seeming coaching system. And then her mom doesn't speak much English, which only adds to the barrier. Given the investment they've made as a family, I assume they've bought into this long-term, but doubts and everyday worries would be understandable. We don't know, for example, what went into switching the SP, but there's certainly a story there.

I also think Brian has been very transparent over the years about how navigating cultural differences with skaters has been challenging in addition to coaching. Yuna and Yuzuru taught him a lot. He seems very chill about Junhwan, and it's probably informed by those experiences. He's navigating very different waters with Zhenya, and it seems like he uses Yuna as his reference point, but even that is still so dissimilar. Even though I've felt that they maybe should've considered taking the GP circuit off, I think the lessons both of them learned about each other and themselves was probably critical for building trust. Competition does that in a way that practices can't.

 

[Eldorado]

She really said it
https://twitter.com/Leelona/status/1076972576289697792

 

[anonymoose_au]

She really said it
https://twitter.com/Leelona/status/1076972576289697792

Ooo SNAP.

Good for Zhenya!