Evils of the CoP at Junior Worlds

[Rgirl]

The mods may want to move this to the Jr. Worlds folder, but I put it here because the article is mostly about how the COP is definitely NOT working at Junior Worlds.

I found it to summarize a lot of issues that have been discussed on GS COP threads, no matter the level, so I put it here.

http://www.figure-skating-judging-scandal.com/2005/03/junior-worlds-same-old-same-old.html

Comments?

 

[Linny]

Last year

Although it makes it clear at the top of the article that it's talking about last year's Jr Worlds, it still gave me a start. Interesting how the skaters mentioned in the article have gotten so much scrutiny this year.
Linny

 

[Mathman]

I think the main thrust of the article is in the first line: "Same old same old." What the Skatefair people are really mad about is not the details of the CoP but rather the cheatin', lyin' rascals that run the ISU, and the climate of secrecy and cronyism that dominates its culture.

To me, the most interesting point was the discussion of the role of the technical specialist, who downgraded Mao Asada's triple Axel in the short program to a double. Most of the observers thought it was a clean triple, according to Skatefair.

Under the old judging system, each judge would decide for him/herself and score the program accordingly. The philosophy of the NJS is that this is not a matter of judgment but a matter of fact. Either she got in the full 3.25 revolutions or she didn't, the opinions of judges and audience notwithstanding.

Maybe some time in the future they will develop little sensors to attach to the skaters' boots that electronically monitor the exact position on the foot when it strikes the ice. Robo-caller.

MM

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Thanks Rgirl - You know this topic is dear to my heart, and it does belong in The Edge. The topic is: There Is Cheating In The CoP.

From day 1 of the CoP, I thought the Technical Assistant (Caller) was the most powerful official in the scoring process. To sit there and decide for himself by his view of the ice that an underrotation took place, was and still is for me, a case for the need of a mechanism to show all jump landings and take this power away from one single view. Judges can decide that for themselves, and those judges who will ignore an underrotation for a compatriot may be cancelled out by those judges who put sport ahead of favoritism. That should take away this enormous power of the Tech Assst.

A separate judge panel is also necessary in the judging of the PCS to take away from the rampant cheating in the GOE scores in the TT scores. Toetappers and the lot are not going to stop their game so the ISU has to up the rules for judging.

And let's name all the judges. The case for anonimity is weak.

Joe

 

[Numbers Cruncher]

I'm under the impression from reading the technical documents on the USFSA website that there are three people on the technical panel.

The Technical Specialist (Caller) who identifies and calls the elements.

The Assistant Technical Specialist who also identifies the elements.

The Technical Controller who supervises the technical panel.

It takes two of the three to decide any conflicts.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I'm under the impression from reading the technical documents on the USFSA website that there are three people on the technical panel.

The Technical Specialist (Caller) who identifies and calls the elements.

The Assistant Technical Specialist who also identifies the elements.

The Technical Controller who supervises the technical panel.

It takes two of the three to decide any conflicts.

We know the regulations. We just don't think they are being followed. Scores come up so quickly.

Didn't they do away with one of those three recently?

Joe

 

[Alsace]

Triple Axel

Either she got in the full 3.25 revolutions or she didn't, the opinions of judges and audience notwithstanding.

Okay, how have I been thinking that the triple axel is 3.5 revolutions all this time? :scratch: Or is MM's reputation soiled?

Please help me out here!

 

[Ptichka]

Okay, how have I been thinking that the triple axel is 3.5 revolutions all this time? :scratch: Or is MM's reputation soiled?

If the jump is cheeated by less than 0.25 revolutions, it's just a GoE deduction. If it's more cheated, than jump is downgraded.

Someone please remind me, I forgot - do the judges see how the jump has been identified by the caller when they grade it? I know they used to see levels on spins and spirals but not longer do. What about the jumps?

 

[mzheng]

Someone please remind me, I forgot - do the judges see how the jump has been identified by the caller when they grade it? I know they used to see levels on spins and spirals but not longer do. What about the jumps?

Are you sure Judges don't see level of steps and spins? IIRC, the display to judges changed last season (that Judges no long seeing the level) was only made in Dance. Since there was so many judge feedback the season before that they tended to gave out the higher GOE if they saw an element was called higher level.

But I do think there are some ovlaps between the level definition and execution quality (GOE). Mostly in the highest level features (level 4 in spins and footwork) there is some feature really is Execution quality. Such as "obvious increasing speed after hit position" in spin. And take footwork as example (borrowed from JW from mkf) for level 4 fw :

1) Variety of (Complex for Level 4) turns and steps throughout (compulsory)
2) 3 (4 for Level 4) changes of skating or rotational direction
3) Change (quick changes for Level 4) of speed (not because of a stop)
4) Modest (full use of - for Level 4) upper body movement.
5) Quick changes from steps to turns

Clearly the feature 3 and 5 are actually execution/opinion issues. aka GOE issue.