Finding a skate sharpener for parabolic blades

[keilexandra]

Hi, I'm an adult skater who moved from northern California to western Montana a few years ago, and missing the expert skate techs I used to have access to. I currently skate in Avantas (amazing fit for my weird feet, better than the Harlicks I used to wear) and JW Gold Seal parabolic blades (probably overbladed, but I like them). I have most of my singles, working on lutz technique and consistency before I tackle the beast that is axel; solid sit spin/somewhat inconsistent camel spin; and working on Juvenile moves / Adult Gold if I decide I'm no longer cut out for adult-on-standard-track testing.

I wouldn't necessarily be in the market to change blades, but I recently had a sharpening issue with the best skate tech in my city: had my skates sharpened, suddenly couldn't center forward spins to save my life, took them back to the tech -- he didn't see anything wrong but resharpened the blade anyway, and that seems to have fixed whatever happened. However, I'm wary that the "fix" wasn't actually done with intention or knowledge of what went wrong.

So my question is twofold:

1) Given lack of access to a highly experienced sharpener, should I switch to JW Gold Seal regular blades on my next equipment change? Is it a difficult transition?

2) I may not be changing equipment for another 1-2 years, so I still need to maintain my current blades... Can anyone suggest a great sharpener for parabolic blades in the Spokane, WA area? That would be a 3-hr drive from me already, but going to any other (smaller) Montana city is almost as far. Alternatively, are there reliable mail-in services, and what is the turnaround time like? I do sometimes travel to CA and DE where I can use reliable skate techs, but not as frequently as I need my blades sharpened.

 

[tstop4me]

1) Given lack of access to a highly experienced sharpener, should I switch to JW Gold Seal regular blades on my next equipment change? Is it a difficult transition?

The regular Gold Seal has a longitudinally tapered thickness profile (thicker near the toe, thinner near the heel) instead of a parabolic thickness profile; and is also concave side-honed like the parabolic Gold Seal: i.e., it does not have a simple parallel-sides geometry. So you still need a competent sharpener experienced in sharpening them.

 

[keilexandra]

The regular Gold Seal has a longitudinally tapered thickness profile (thicker near the toe, thinner near the heel) instead of a parabolic thickness profile; and is also concave side-honed like the parabolic Gold Seal: i.e., it does not have a simple parallel-sides geometry. So you still need a competent sharpener experienced in sharpening them.

Ugh, I see, thanks. Is there another blade you'd recommend considering that would be easier to sharpen and still good for spinning? Or maybe I should just commit to finding a new (far away) sharpener...

 

[Diana Delafield]

Ugh, I see, thanks. Is there another blade you'd recommend considering that would be easier to sharpen and still good for spinning? Or maybe I should just commit to finding a new (far away) sharpener...

Depends on whether you prefer the 8' rocker or are willing to try a 7' rocker? I use the MK Phantom which is a 7' , and it's good for spinning and is easy to sharpen (or so my sharpener tells me). But people tend to have strong preferences for one rocker over the other.

 

[keilexandra]

Depends on whether you prefer the 8' rocker or are willing to try a 7' rocker? I use the MK Phantom which is a 7' , and it's good for spinning and is easy to sharpen (or so my sharpener tells me). But people tend to have strong preferences for one rocker over the other.

My previous blades were Ultima Legacy which I believe is a 7' rocker, and I remember the blade (+ new boot + shorter blade length) transition was not fun. So I'd rather stick with the 8' rocker; I do like the stability on jump landings too. I love jumping and spinning equally but am definitely progressing faster on spins than jumps, which I hear is common with adults. I also dabble a little in ice dance but it's not my primary interest.

 

[tstop4me]

Ugh, I see, thanks. Is there another blade you'd recommend considering that would be easier to sharpen and still good for spinning? Or maybe I should just commit to finding a new (far away) sharpener...

My previous blades were Ultima Legacy which I believe is a 7' rocker, and I remember the blade (+ new boot + shorter blade length) transition was not fun. So I'd rather stick with the 8' rocker; I do like the stability on jump landings too. I love jumping and spinning equally but am definitely progressing faster on spins than jumps, which I hear is common with adults. I also dabble a little in ice dance but it's not my primary interest.

Among the MK and Wilson blades, if you want an advanced blade with an 8' radius main rocker and wide flat parallel sides along the entire length toe-to-heel, your only option is the standard Wilson Pattern 99. I'm not qualified to comment on how easy they are to spin on and on whether it would be easy for you to transition from your current blades to them. Others here I believe have tried both and can address those issues.

If you were willing to reconsider a 7' radius main rocker, the regular MK Professional and regular Wilson Coronation Ace (both intermediate-level blades, though) also have wide flat parallel sides along the entire length toe-to-heel.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

My previous blades were Ultima Legacy which I believe is a 7' rocker, and I remember the blade (+ new boot + shorter blade length) transition was not fun. So I'd rather stick with the 8' rocker; I do like the stability on jump landings too. I love jumping and spinning equally but am definitely progressing faster on spins than jumps, which I hear is common with adults. I also dabble a little in ice dance but it's not my primary interest.

If you were fine on Legacy my suggestion would be JW P99's. Also, I know one of the best techs but they are 5 hours from you (in ID) unless you are willing to fly?

 

[Query]

I think many high end sharpeners (possibly including your prior skate tech??) accept mail order.

The one I knew who did that (who has retired )) accepted overnight express mail, and express mailed them back the next day. But since he is retired - in fact the other two skate techs I knew have retired too, I can't tell you where to try. But I'm sure lots of other people on this board know skate techs they trust to handle non-parallel sided blades.

The other option is to learn to do it yourself - but there is a significant learning curve to do so, and you might not want to practice on high end blades, because you may make mistakes. There is another advantage though: most commercial skate techs remove a lot more metal than they have to, which reduces the lifetime of your blades.

A problem with that second option is that I don't happen to know of any modern hand tools that can do a good job of sharpening figure skates - I use old ones that are no longer made. The powered sharpening machines that do a good job cost a few times what your blades do (and may actually have a longer learning curve, because things happen so fast, and it's harder to center them on the blade). And I personally only have theories, not experience, on sharpening blades that aren't parallel sided. If you happen to use a 1/2" radius of hollow, I would have a suggestion on a combination of tools that might work - but haven't tried it myself.

You may not be alone. Ask your coach - and other coaches and good skaters, in your area, what they do. It's not that uncommon for picky figure skaters (and hockey skaters too, if you need more people, though some skate techs are only good at sharpening one, but not the other; goalies are particularly likely to be picky) to carpool to a distant but very good pro shop (they often use a specific skate tech at that shop; and make a prior appointment), or to have one of them drive all the skates to & from such a shop (with notes on radius of hollow and any special mods for each skate). For that matter, some coaches offer the service of delivering your skates to and from such a shop, perhaps for a fee.

It would be such a shame for you to have to change from blades you are used to and love, to ones you don't... But it is entirely possible for a less than stellar tech to permanently mess up your fancy blades in as little as one sharpening.

 

[keilexandra]

If you were fine on Legacy my suggestion would be JW P99's. Also, I know one of the best techs but they are 5 hours from you (in ID) unless you are willing to fly?

Can you share info for the tech in Idaho? If northern ID, it may be driveable (I'm in Missoula, MT). I also found a lead on a skate tech with parabolic experience in Spokane, so that's what I will try in the interim for my current blades... 3 hr drive but we like to go there for Trader Joe's sometimes anyway.

We already have people from other MT rinks commuting several hours to use our local skate tech! He's pretty good but he doesn't do many parabolics and as mentioned I had an issue this last time; I'd still use him in a pinch. My coach's advice was that she previously had another skater on parabolic blades and advised the skater to change to a regular blade due to sharpening issues :/

I will do more research into Pattern 99's for my next blades. I have some life yet on my Gold Seals to find out how much of a hassle it is to get them sharpened.

 

[Query]

Another idea: Maybe they would be willing to make you a pair of custom Gold Seal blades, with fully parallel sides. And what they would charge... I've not heard of them making custom shape blades, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

JW has contact info at www.johnwilsonskates.com/contact-us

If you ask, mention your location, because shipping costs and import duties might affect cost. And specifically mention omitting all the types of non-parallel issues mentioned above.

OTOH, some people think non-parallel sides significantly affects skating, some don't. If it does, maybe one of the things you love about the Gold Seals is how the non-parallel nature affects your skating...

When buying new blades from JW or MK, it is routine for skate techs to resharpen (and re-profile) the blades, because many people say JW and MK factory profiles and edges are inconsistent. But that takes skill, because they are "correcting" the original shape, in the manner that particular skate tech feels appropriate, which varies a bit from skate tech to skate tech. Perhaps you could have any new blades shipped to and re-profiled by the skate tech you trust for that initial sharpening.

Some boot companies send trainers to pro shops to teach employees how to optimally fit their boots. It's a shame that, AFAIK, major figure skate blade companies don't do likewise to train employees to mount their blades and sharpen well. Or at least provide training materials. Oh well.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Can you share info for the tech in Idaho? If northern ID, it may be driveable (I'm in Missoula, MT). I also found a lead on a skate tech with parabolic experience in Spokane, so that's what I will try in the interim for my current blades... 3 hr drive but we like to go there for Trader Joe's sometimes anyway.

We already have people from other MT rinks commuting several hours to use our local skate tech! He's pretty good but he doesn't do many parabolics and as mentioned I had an issue this last time; I'd still use him in a pinch. My coach's advice was that she previously had another skater on parabolic blades and advised the skater to change to a regular blade due to sharpening issues :/

I will do more research into Pattern 99's for my next blades. I have some life yet on my Gold Seals to find out how much of a hassle it is to get them sharpened.

Going from Gold Seals to P99's just know that the P99s sit flatter on the ice and don't have the heel lift that the Gold Seals do, so it will take a bit of adjusting. Also, their toe picks are very different.
I'll message you with the tech info.

 

[IceM]

Depends on whether you prefer the 8' rocker or are willing to try a 7' rocker? I use the MK Phantom which is a 7' , and it's good for spinning and is easy to sharpen (or so my sharpener tells me). But people tend to have strong preferences for one rocker over the other.

Phantoms are parabolic/tapered as well, so the same sharpening woes apply. For a decent sharpener, however, it's not the tapering that matters, but the presence (or lack thereof) of parallel mounting positions, which all traditional JW/MK blades have, while Revs don't (meaning the latter could be considered harder to sharpen).

Going from Gold Seals to P99's just know that the P99s sit flatter on the ice and don't have the heel lift that the Gold Seals do, so it will take a bit of adjusting. Also, their toe picks are very different.
I'll message you with the tech info.

Gold seals have about the same stanchion height in the front and back (i.e., no heel lift). P99s have a significantly taller stanchion at the back (i.e., some heel lift). Gold Seals just have higher stanchions overall, but there's no heel lift, and the difference in feel comes from the different blade profile, and the fact that on the Gold Seals you simply sit higher from the ice, so you have less balance in that regard. But as far as heel lift goes, it's actually the opposite between the two.