Former French skaters come forward about sexual abuse in FFSG

okokok1777

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Feb 16, 2018
Can he even be charged and tried if he's not in the country?

He can be criminally charged by the US authorities for any crimes committed on US soil. However, the US authorities would then need to apply for extradition. IIRC while US and France have an extradition treaty, France does not extradite their own citizens (Polanski, who you mentioned earlier, is a good example of this policy in practice). In other words, Morgan would not be extradited to the US from France.
 

Harriet

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Can he even be charged and tried if he's not in the country?

I don't think so. If the US had an extradition arrangement with France then he could be arrested in France and extradited to the US to face charges, I believe, but if I'm remembering rightly France is one of the countries that doesn't extradite criminals to the US because the death penalty is still in force in some states.

ETA: okokok1777 is way more on top of this than I am so go with their explanation.
 

Supernovaimplosion

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Feb 13, 2018
I don't think so. If the US had an extradition arrangement with France then he could be arrested in France and extradited to the US to face charges, I believe, but if I'm remembering rightly France is one of the countries that doesn't extradite criminals to the US because the death penalty is still in force in some states.

ETA: okokok1777 is way more on top of this than I am so go with their explanation.

He can be criminally charged by the US authorities for any crimes committed on US soil. However, the US authorities would then need to apply for extradition. IIRC while US and France have an extradition treaty, France does not extradite their own citizens (Polanski, who you mentioned earlier, is a good example of this policy in practice). In other words, Morgan would not be extradited to the US from France.

I suppose the only punishment will be commercial then. That's sad
 

Edwin

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Both Morgan Cipres (on accusation of sending D pics to a 13 year old girl) and Gilles Beyer (of sexual aggression) will not be sanctioned by FFSG: https://www.lequipe.fr/Patinage-art...-contre-gilles-beyer-et-morgan-cipres/1154621

Cipres because the disciplinary commission found the evidence insufficient.
Beyer because he no longer has FFSG license (?). So will he now have to be criminally prosecuted?

FFSG President Mme Pechalat respects the authority of the commission and therefor FFSG will not appeal.

Lots of angry comments on the lack of change within FFSG ...
 

ancientpeas

The Notorious SEW
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Not to sound like a useless politician here but I am disappointed by this outcome.

I can not bring myself to support this team again. I wish Vanessa all the best but for me, who was a big fan of these two, I will not watch them together anymore. Personal decision, personal reasons.
 
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Edwin

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I've made an edit to Beyer.

Regarding Cipres, USA Safe Sport and the local sheriff's department are not ready with him yet, investigations are still continuing IIRC. So pursuing his/their career at this Florida rink in the hope of earning an Olympic start means he still can be charged, arrested and prosecuted under US jurisdiction? I doubt much will come out of it, unless new allegations and/or evidence surface.
 

Colonel Green

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Beyer because he no longer has FFSG license (?).
What they mean is that since he’s not an FFSG member anymore, apparently, they have no jurisdiction.

Regarding Cipres, USA Safe Sport and the local sheriff's department are not ready with him yet, investigations are still continuing IIRC. So pursuing his/their career at this Florida rink in the hope of earning an Olympic start means he still can be charged, arrested and prosecuted under US jurisdiction? I doubt much will come out of it, unless new allegations and/or evidence surface.
He can be prosecuted in the US, though it would depend on him visiting a country that would extradite him — in practical terms, though, this would be a huge blow to the team in terms of their ability to compete internationally.
 

oly2018

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Feb 13, 2018
Not surprised, but very disappointed. Didier was just a symptom of a larger cultural problem within the French federation. Did they put in any effort to compile evidence? It doesn't seem like it. The decision could be appealed, but Natalie has already said that won't happen. They could be less obvious of their desire to have Morgan compete because they don't have any other competitive pairs teams.
 

Jeanie19

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Not to sound like a useless politician here but I am disappointed by this outcome.

I can not bring myself to support this team again. I wish Vanessa all the best but for me, who was a big fan of these two, I will not watch them together anymore. Personal decision, personal reasons.

I won't watch them either. And I really hope they are not invited to any Galas.
 

el henry

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A little more detail about the FFSG decision on Ciprès:

According to the article, the FFSG said that no complaint was presented from an alleged victim, no criminal proceedings had been instituted, and that no photographs, text messages, letters, had been presented to the FFSG.

In essence, it sounds as though whoever made the complaint against Morgan did not obtain even a statement from the young lady involved? (I will not bore everyone here with why newspaper articles do not meet the definition of legal proof, nor do I have any idea what standards of evidence are used in France or in French administrative bodies).

If Beyer is no longer a member of the FFSG, then there is in fact no sanction they could issue. :( If I am not a member of a state bar association, they cannot revoke my bar membership for misconduct.
 

ladyjane

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Regarding Gilles Beyer:

In its press release, the FFSG explained that the Disciplinary Commission had not been able to sanction Gilles Beyer since he no longer had a federal license, at the time of the hearing, and therefore that she was not authorized to pronounce disciplinary action against him. Beyer was not present at the hearing. He was represented by his lawyer, Me Pauline Ragot, who had also concluded that the Disciplinary Commission was incompetent.

During the hearing, Gilles Beyer's lawyer had declared that his client did not wish to speak, due to a criminal investigation which was underway. Even if it has not been the subject to date of any summons or hearing by a judicial or police authority.


In my view this means that, and El Henry noted this, that the FFSG can't do anything as he no longer is a member of the Federation (the only thing they can do is forbid him to ever become a member again) but that there is a criminal investigation underway.

I hope this criminal investigation leads to this guy being sentenced. From what I've read his crimes are way more dreadful than Morgan's (although obviously Morgan was wrong too).
 

TallyT

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Disgusting... I'm not usually vindictive (I hope) and I'm sorry for Vanessa, but I hope Cipres's skating career is toast. Burnt toast.

Mind you, FFSG may have done squat about him, but what has the US Fed said or done to look into the American coaches? I predict that will also be swept under the same grubby carpet.
 

Harriet

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Time for the Minister to revoke the FFSG's accreditation, I think. The Cipres verdict is the definition of 'we aren't even going to bother to pretend to try for appearance's sake'.

TallyT, there is at least an active SafeSport investigation into the coaches. But from what I understand, that means that USFS has handed jurisdiction of the case over to SafeSport and can't act on the matter itself.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
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I knew it. I knew they'd do nothing. And why would Pechelat do anything other than accept it? Cipres is her friend and endorsed her.

I hope if they ever even try to come back to competitive ice, the booing drowns out their music.
 

rain

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Disgusting... I'm not usually vindictive (I hope) and I'm sorry for Vanessa, but I hope Cipres's skating career is toast. Burnt toast.

Mind you, FFSG may have done squat about him, but what has the US Fed said or done to look into the American coaches? I predict that will also be swept under the same grubby carpet.

I am totally unsurprised that he's still able to compete, but good grief, couldn't they at least have given him some kind of slap on the wrist? Loud and clear that there are different rules for elite athletes, and that the French federation remains corrupt as they come — valuing the potential medals over the morals. The only punishment will be if audiences turn on him. I think we can all take from this that it is business as usual at the FFSG, with or without Didier. I have zero respect left for Pechelat.
 

Amei

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Nov 11, 2013
A little more detail about the FFSG decision on Ciprès:

According to the article, the FFSG said that no complaint was presented from an alleged victim, no criminal proceedings had been instituted, and that no photographs, text messages, letters, had been presented to the FFSG.

In essence, it sounds as though whoever made the complaint against Morgan did not obtain even a statement from the young lady involved? (I will not bore everyone here with why newspaper articles do not meet the definition of legal proof, nor do I have any idea what standards of evidence are used in France or in French administrative bodies).

If Beyer is no longer a member of the FFSG, then there is in fact no sanction they could issue. :( If I am not a member of a state bar association, they cannot revoke my bar membership for misconduct.

Agree completely, based off your summary and Google Translation of the article it seems like a non-issue. No jurisdiction over Beyer and nothing credible against Cipres presented to them. They did highlight that nothing criminal had been filed, so I wonder if that changes if they revisit Cipres getting some type of sanction. They should have just responded with once the authorities conclude their investigation into the matter they will review the outcome and determine if and what sanctions Cipres should get.


If people really want to put this guy out of work; they need to contact the ISU directly, and try to get Cipres banned from further competition by the ISU. If you hear he's involved in a skating show contact the show sponsors and the organizers of the show.
 

Amei

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Nov 11, 2013
He can be prosecuted in the US, though it would depend on him visiting a country that would extradite him — in practical terms, though, this would be a huge blow to the team in terms of their ability to compete internationally.

Or participate in shows.
 

Skater Boy

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Feb 24, 2012
I am totally unsurprised that he's still able to compete, but good grief, couldn't they at least have given him some kind of slap on the wrist? Loud and clear that there are different rules for elite athletes, and that the French federation remains corrupt as they come — valuing the potential medals over the morals. The only punishment will be if audiences turn on him. I think we can all take from this that it is business as usual at the FFSG, with or without Didier. I have zero respect left for Pechelat.

This whole thing is a mess and undermines figure skating which isn't seen in the best of light or due to lack of world wide interest in some ways any light. If you recall there was some issueces of how Pechelat got her position - some will say she earned and fought for her and others will say she plotted and schemed. Then you have Gilles. As all of you are understanding there are different legals standards from a governing body ie ISU, USFSA Safesport, FFSG and criminal proceedings or for that matter civil. Criminal has the most daunting thresholdof all. The idea is to make the sport a sport focussing on good clean competition. Gilles and Cipres will be forever associated withabusive or inappropriate behaviour conviction or no conviction at any and all levels. I do feel for Vanessa and do not know how I feel about this couple or Morgan.

Part of me says Morgan's behaviour is predatory, abusive, he was in a positon of trust and needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent. Another one says while it is not a legal or moral or even sport excuse but it seems like Morgan was behaving like a testosterone filledmale without thinking. One would hope an adult like Morgan would have common sense that his penis is not to be shown at whim. While we should not judge and convict I notice his instagram account and his his posted photos he comes off too many as a young athletic good looking male who doesn't mind showing his body - I am really surprise though he is innocent until proven guilty that his pr people at least didn't slowly remove some of those shirtless, open pant photos. In one interview Vanessa talks of Morgan's playfulnessandcraziness/spontaniety. No excuse criminally or morally that he spontaneous showed his genitalia. Whatever the case Vanessa and Morgan as a team will be tainted for many. Now if they continue what will the judges do or say.
 

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
This whole thing is a mess and undermines figure skating which isn't seen in the best of light or due to lack of world wide interest in some ways any light. If you recall there was some issueces of how Pechelat got her position - some will say she earned and fought for her and others will say she plotted and schemed. Then you have Gilles. As all of you are understanding there are different legals standards from a governing body ie ISU, USFSA Safesport, FFSG and criminal proceedings or for that matter civil. Criminal has the most daunting thresholdof all. The idea is to make the sport a sport focussing on good clean competition. Gilles and Cipres will be forever associated withabusive or inappropriate behaviour conviction or no conviction at any and all levels. I do feel for Vanessa and do not know how I feel about this couple or Morgan.

Part of me says Morgan's behaviour is predatory, abusive, he was in a positon of trust and needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent. Another one says while it is not a legal or moral or even sport excuse but it seems like Morgan was behaving like a testosterone filledmale without thinking. One would hope an adult like Morgan would have common sense that his penis is not to be shown at whim. While we should not judge and convict I notice his instagram account and his his posted photos he comes off too many as a young athletic good looking male who doesn't mind showing his body - I am really surprise though he is innocent until proven guilty that his pr people at least didn't slowly remove some of those shirtless, open pant photos. In one interview Vanessa talks of Morgan's playfulnessandcraziness/spontaniety. No excuse criminally or morally that he spontaneous showed his genitalia. Whatever the case Vanessa and Morgan as a team will be tainted for many. Now if they continue what will the judges do or say.

Well, the main audience he and the French skating fed has to appeal to or not overly anger is the people of France and the French government that financially supports/assists them - last check France has refused to extradite Roman Polanski that plead guilty to raping a 13 year old girl in the US and fled to France in 1978 and is still living free in France ..so remembering that - why would Cipres change anything about his behavior, he hasn't even been charged and really there's not a lot about his Instagram that's out of the norm for 20-somethings.
 
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