Gabriella Papadakis & Guillaume Cizeron

Charis

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
An interesting interview of Marie-France Dubrueil last March 4 by The Skating Lesson. The interview starts at around 27:54. The section on G & G starts at about 36:20. She tells us about the dress issue in the SD and other matters for the future. Near the end of the video, she says 'They are both perfectionists, especially Guillaume.' Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/MZVarsXHW7U?t=27m54s

I am not a TSL fan …We all know Dave is a huge fan of Tessa and Scott…I don’t want to say something more. Also I don’t agree with Marie-France Dubrueil that both teams skated the best (36:13)!!!Gabriella and Guillaume was not fighting in equal terms at sd…if only they had the opportunity to fix the dress and start all over again….They are wonderful ice-dancers, athlets and artists!!For me they are only Golden!!
For Milan I wish them to have the best time and their hearts will be full of joy and love!!! They fully deserve it!!!:luv17:
 

icetigger

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 18, 2017
I am not a TSL fan …We all know Dave is a huge fan of Tessa and Scott…I don’t want to say something more. Also I don’t agree with Marie-France Dubrueil that both teams skated the best (36:13)!!!Gabriella and Guillaume was not fighting in equal terms at sd…if only they had the opportunity to fix the dress and start all over again….They are wonderful ice-dancers, athlets and artists!!For me they are only Golden!!
For Milan I wish them to have the best time and their hearts will be full of joy and love!!! They fully deserve it!!!:luv17:

Yeah, I noted the point where she said they both skated their best (which wasn't the case because of the costume problem, which I see as the coaching team's responsibility, and I'm also including the fall on the choreo twizzles for H/D as another example of one of their team not skating their best). I also noted that she basically dumps the junior choreo on Romain (because she doesn't have the patience) and that Steffany is used to get rid of the stuff (psychological) that gets in the way of her coaching so that she doesn't have to deal with it. I find her very self-promoting and self-advantaging.. There is of course some talent to back it up. But I think that other people around her might find themselves at a loss when working with her unless they have similarly "unfair" personality types.
 

peepsquick

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Yeah, I noted the point where she said they both skated their best (which wasn't the case because of the costume problem, which I see as the coaching team's responsibility, and I'm also including the fall on the choreo twizzles for H/D as another example of one of their team not skating their best). I also noted that she basically dumps the junior choreo on Romain (because she doesn't have the patience) and that Steffany is used to get rid of the stuff (psychological) that gets in the way of her coaching so that she doesn't have to deal with it. I find her very self-promoting and self-advantaging.. There is of course some talent to back it up. But I think that other people around her might find themselves at a loss when working with her unless they have similarly "unfair" personality types.

I don't see it that way at all. To make it work with the number of teams in the school they have to find a difficult balance optimizing every coach's skills. It wouldn't not help to have her dissipate her energies, running around and trying to fix all the problems by herself. Her strength seems to be in choreographing and coaching the advanced students/teams. As it is, I don't know how they manage, energy and time wise. They must have a very well oiled "machine"!
 

icetigger

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 18, 2017
I don't see it that way at all. To make it work with the number of teams in the school they have to find a difficult balance optimizing every coach's skills. It wouldn't not help to have her dissipate her energies, running around and trying to fix all the problems by herself. Her strength seems to be in choreographing and coaching the advanced students/teams. As it is, I don't know how they manage, energy and time wise. They must have a very well oiled "machine"!

One can positively frame it.......... And this is a very positively framed interview, which she is very good at. Even to the point where she states both V/M and P/C skated their best, which is either a delusional or a dishonest statement. The loss of level aside for the Pst in the short dance, the difference between P/C and V/Ms overall score was the about the amount of pcs and Goe lost in the sd: P/C didn't skate their best and a costume error which was the coaches responsibility was the cause of it. Regarding what she says with regard to Romain and Steffany- both are presented as being used as tools in order to make her life easier because of her having a certain personality. She isn't talking about optimising their talents: she's talking about using them strategically in order that her own weaknesses are not addressed. To me, this is an interview where you have to remove the obvious positive framing in order to get at the truth of what is going on. There's also a lot that extends beyond just these statements in terms of a pattern that is making me make this assessment of her.
 

BlueCat28

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
I am not a TSL fan …We all know Dave is a huge fan of Tessa and Scott…I don’t want to say something more. Also I don’t agree with Marie-France Dubrueil that both teams skated the best (36:13)!!!Gabriella and Guillaume was not fighting in equal terms at sd…if only they had the opportunity to fix the dress and start all over again….They are wonderful ice-dancers, athlets and artists!!For me they are only Golden!!
For Milan I wish them to have the best time and their hearts will be full of joy and love!!! They fully deserve it!!!:luv17:

Sorry , she is pathetic. They skated their best? And they got 81. 97? She seriously thinks that? IT is disgusting that she thinks that they didnt deserve more and she simply ignores that accident with the dress like nothing happened. I know she tries justife the winning canadians as fair and deserving but it is just sad. Her crying was obvious proof
 

icetigger

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 18, 2017
Sorry , she is pathetic. They skated their best? And they got 81. 97? She seriously thinks that? IT is disgusting that she thinks that they didnt deserve more and she simply ignores that accident with the dress like nothing happened. I know she tries justife the winning canadians as fair and deserving but it is just sad. Her crying was obvious proof

The bit that then annoys me is when she says that they were able to cope with the costume malfunction because of how well trained they are....... That she is complimenting herself over how they dealt with it.
 

BlueCat28

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
The bit that then annoys me is when she says that they were able to cope with the costume malfunction because of how well trained they are....... That she is complimenting herself over how they dealt with it.

Exactly, she is not sorry for them, she is proud of them.
I just feels that everyone in Canada is happy what happened. like it was not important, becasue they obviously were worse skaters overall not deserving that gold so who cares, right?
 

icetigger

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 18, 2017
Exactly, she is not sorry for them, she is proud of them.
I just feels that everyone in Canada is happy what happened. like it was not important, becasue they obviously were worse skaters overall not deserving that gold so who cares, right?

To me, she is just using them as ciphers to give herself positive feedback, even when it comes to dealing with something that was due to the coaching team not taking significant measures to ensure something disastrous didn't happen.
 

Lily flowers

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 20, 2017
I never knew you could tell what someone’s entire personality is like based on an interview, a barely 30 minute interview at that.
When she said they were able to cope with the costume malfunction because of how well trained they are, she wasn’t complimenting herself, she was complimenting them as hardworkers and real athletes. I don’t know how you reach the conclusion that she meant to compliment herself. But then again you take someone’s words the way you want to take them I guess.
 

BlueCat28

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
I never knew you could tell what someone’s entire personality is like based on an interview, a barely 30 minute interview at that.
When she said they were able to cope with the costume malfunction because of how well trained they are, she wasn’t complimenting herself, she was complimenting them as hardworkers and real athletes. I don’t know how you reach the conclusion that she meant to compliment herself. But then again you take someone’s words the way you want to take them I guess.

Yes, she was complimenting them as hardworkers .. Fantastic, they skated their best with he dress malfunction. Wow. And she is so proud of that. Form that video is obvious that she is glad canadians won and it IS not matter what happned to french BECAUSE ANYWAY they skated their best right?She thinks that they couldnt skate better ?:biggrin:
 

icetigger

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 18, 2017
I never knew you could tell what someone’s entire personality is like based on an interview, a barely 30 minute interview at that.
When she said they were able to cope with the costume malfunction because of how well trained they are, she wasn’t complimenting herself, she was complimenting them as hardworkers and real athletes. I don’t know how you reach the conclusion that she meant to compliment herself. But then again you take someone’s words the way you want to take them I guess.

Well, she could have said they showed great strength of character, tenacity, sportsmanship, professionalism. That they were focused on their goal and that they didn't let that get in the way of how giving the best performance they could, and that she really admired the way they pushed through it. You know, actual compliments; none of which she chose to give.

Also, to train is generally used as a transitive verb- meaning that it involves outside agency. And even when it is used intransitively, it generally means submitting yourself to an outside agency. I therefore don't think that in this instance that it is unreasonable to think that she is referring to herself and Gadbois as a whole.

If she wanted to give them the compliment, she should have said "how well they had trained"
 

BlueCat28

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
Well, she could have said they showed great strength of character, tenacity, sportsmanship, professionalism. That they were focused on their goal and that they didn't let that get in the way of how giving the best performance they could, and that she really admired the way they pushed through it. You know, actual compliments.

Also, to train is generally used as a transitive verb- meaning that the it involves outside agency. And even when it is used intransitively, it generally means submitting yourself to an outside agency. I therefore don't think that in this instance that it is unreasonable to think that she is referring to herself and Gadbois as a whole.

Yes, how well trained they are ..OMG
They trained in Gadbois for 4 years only to prepare to compete at Olys with dress malfunction. It was their goal
 

Harriet

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Country
Australia
To make it work with the number of teams in the school they have to find a difficult balance optimizing every coach's skills. It wouldn't not help to have her dissipate her energies, running around and trying to fix all the problems by herself. Her strength seems to be in choreographing and coaching the advanced students/teams. As it is, I don't know how they manage, energy and time wise. They must have a very well oiled "machine"!

Exactly. In a management context it would be called delegating, and it's generally considered an excellent skill to have - far better to surround yourself with a team of people who have complementary skills, and organise them so that they can use their best skills effectively and let you use yours, to enable the group to create something better than any of the individuals in it could manage alone, than to try to micromanage every last detail yourself and crash and burn!

It seems to me that Marie-France has built an excellent team that covers all the aspects of coaching and choreography, and part of that comes from her ability to find good people and figure out what they're best at, and then let them do it. Which was something she had to do, let's be real. Gadbois trains an awful lot of teams. If Marie-France couldn't put together a good coaching team to cover all the areas, and then step back and let it work, she'd have burnt out or died of overwork years ago.

And while I know it's human nature to look for things or people to assign responsibility to when something doesn't go the way we'd prefer, or when something goes wrong, the truth is that you can do everything possible to prevent a mistake or a problem and sometimes it will still happen. As get said on this site ad nauseam, ice is slippery, and a twizzle that flowed perfectly in practice in the morning can fall apart on competition ice in the afternoon for reasons nobody can quite figure out. And inanimate objects are sometimes intransigent. A stitch doesn't hold, a bit of fabric tears, a bootlace that looked and felt perfectly sound snaps in the middle of a program and leaves you reducing speed through all your lifts for safety's sake, and you lose points because of it. Was Bruno Massot's lace snap at the GPF his coaching team's responsibility, or the manufacturer's, or his, or just plain rotten luck? It was visually identical to the other lace; if he'd chanced to put it on the other boot instead the snap might not have happened at all.

I'd prefer to chalk up the stitches on Gabi's halter clasp breaking to Murphy's Law and move on than try to find someone to assign blame to. Every person in the team did their best to prevent a foreseeable problem but it happened anyway, and when it did Gabi and Guillaume showed they had the mental and emotional strength and physical skill to cope with it brilliantly in the moment, and Marie-France, Romain and Steffany clearly gave them all the support they needed to come back out the next day and do the absolute best work they've ever done. In my book, that's the definition of a success story. Would that I'd been able to give all of my students that great a support system and that strong a quality of resilience.
 

peepsquick

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
icetigger and BlueCat28 ... wow! That is a lot of anger directed towards MF! I don't understand the demonizing of MFD or her school at all. They have made it possible for P/C to develop their immense potential. They are not the enemy! Sure, they had to manage a delicate balance with the Canadian Fed but I never had the impression that they neglected P/C. There is a trusted bond between the dancers and their trainers. For me it is plain to see.
The debacle with the outfit is a shared responsibility, imo, between the designer, the dancers and the trainer(s). It was reckless but they won't make that type of mistake again.
Breathe deep, everybody, and enjoy G/G doing their magic at worlds!
 

BlueCat28

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
Exactly. In a management context it would be called delegating, and it's generally considered an excellent skill to have - far better to surround yourself with a team of people who have complementary skills, and organise them so that they can use their best skills effectively and let you use yours, to enable the group to create something better than any of the individuals in it could manage alone, than to try to micromanage every last detail yourself and crash and burn!

It seems to me that Marie-France has built an excellent team that covers all the aspects of coaching and choreography, and part of that comes from her ability to find good people and figure out what they're best at, and then let them do it. Which was something she had to do, let's be real. Gadbois trains an awful lot of teams. If Marie-France couldn't put together a good coaching team to cover all the areas, and then step back and let it work, she'd have burnt out or died of overwork years ago.

And while I know it's human nature to look for things or people to assign responsibility to when something doesn't go the way we'd prefer, or when something goes wrong, the truth is that you can do everything possible to prevent a mistake or a problem and sometimes it will still happen. As get said on this site ad nauseam, ice is slippery, and a twizzle that flowed perfectly in practice in the morning can fall apart on competition ice in the afternoon for reasons nobody can quite figure out. And inanimate objects are sometimes intransigent. A stitch doesn't hold, a bit of fabric tears, a bootlace that looked and felt perfectly sound snaps in the middle of a program and leaves you reducing speed through all your lifts for safety's sake, and you lose points because of it. Was Bruno Massot's lace snap at the GPF his coaching team's responsibility, or the manufacturer's, or his, or just plain rotten luck? It was visually identical to the other lace; if he'd chanced to put it on the other boot instead the snap might not have happened at all.

I'd prefer to chalk up the stitches on Gabi's halter clasp breaking to Murphy's Law and move on than try to find someone to assign blame to. Every person in the team did their best to prevent a foreseeable problem but it happened anyway, and when it did Gabi and Guillaume showed they had the mental and emotional strength and physical skill to cope with it brilliantly in the moment, and Marie-France, Romain and Steffany clearly gave them all the support they needed to come back out the next day and do the absolute best work they've ever done. In my book, that's the definition of a success story. Would that I'd been able to give all of my students that great a support system and that strong a quality of resilience.

This is not the point, The point is that she neglects the fact what happened and happened a lot! Which cost them gold. She just says how good they are,well trained,mentally , whatever..For them it is tragedy and she just trying to show that situations in good light , maybe she doesnt realize that they re frustrated or something. Saying that they skated their best is humiliating and disrespectful.
Gabby criend in the corner with Cizeron trying to comfort her, where she was then?
 

icetigger

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 18, 2017
Exactly. In a management context it would be called delegating, and it's generally considered an excellent skill to have - far better to surround yourself with a team of people who have complementary skills, and organise them so that they can use their best skills effectively and let you use yours, to enable the group to create something better than any of the individuals in it could manage alone, than to try to micromanage every last detail yourself and crash and burn!


But is Marie-France Romain's manager? Or is she just another member of team of equal rank to the others. Plus she isn't talking about complimentary skills: she is talking about Romain having a patience that she doesn't have, such that she can't choreo junior couples. Just as when she talks about Steffany, she talks about her doing work that means she then just has to do what she wants to do. Neither is providing a complimentary service to the teams, they are providing a service to MF, and that's how she frames it; and it comes across as very self-oriented.

There were other ways of framing both these aspects of how the Gadbois team work, yet she chose to frame both in terms of herself.
 

icetigger

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 18, 2017
icetigger and BlueCat28 ... wow! That is a lot of anger directed towards MF! I don't understand the demonizing of MFD or her school at all. They have made it possible for P/C to develop their immense potential. They are not the enemy! Sure, they had to manage a delicate balance with the Canadian Fed but I never had the impression that they neglected P/C. There is a trusted bond between the dancers and their trainers. For me it is plain to see.
The debacle with the outfit is a shared responsibility, imo, between the designer, the dancers and the trainer(s). It was reckless but they won't make that type of mistake again.
Breathe deep, everybody, and enjoy G/G doing their magic at worlds!

There's no anger on my part. I'm just looking at what she said in this interview, and giving a critique. Just as I would critique any coach interview that I watch. We all critique skaters and their programmes and their interviews all the time on this forum; why not the coaches. Are we just supposed to take this interview with all its positively framed statements at face value. Do you think there is nothing Marie-France could do to develop as a coach based on what she says? Do you think there is no reveal of underlying practices or attitudes that can be questioned?
 
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