Gabriella Papadakis & Guillaume Cizeron

[Snow63]

I thought that rule was already in place last season...? Didn't P/C get level 2 in their SD PSt @ GPF 2016 because Guillaume had a little stumble coming out of his double twizzle so it didn't count towards levels?

Well, you're right about this. The turn was still counted as difficult (single twizzle), but to receive level 3 both skaters should execute double twizzles... Even if all the other steps were correct.
The difference that starting this season after the same mistake the turn will not be counted at all. It's especially important for Style A steps, because there's often two 2Tw, so even with slight mistake of one of them it would be still counted for level 3 as difficult turn single twizzle (if the second 2Tw executed correctly). PSt is Style B* steps so the rule change is not that important for it.

 

[nimi]

Well, you're right about this. The turn was still counted as difficult (single twizzle), but to receive level 3 both skaters should execute double twizzles... Even if all the other steps were correct.
The difference that starting this season after the same mistake the turn will not be counted at all. It's especially important for Style A steps, because there's often two 2Tw, so even with slight mistake of one of them it would be still counted for level 3 as difficult turn single twizzle (if the second 2Tw executed correctly). PSt is Style B* steps so the rule change is not that important for it.

Oops! Before you answered, I already deleted the part you quoted above because I realized after posting it that oh yeah, you're right, last season that botched double twizzle probably did still count as single!

 

[oakandbirch]

Video posted on TSL's Facebook. The bashing in the comments... not a surprise. Too much chauvinism. :disagree:

 

[yuna13]

gala: music problem so they started with the first part of their fd then they did the beyoncé ex (the one they did in japan).

 

[Astrid56]

Here's a new video showing their score https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9Z310TWbGc and it is a phenomenal score. I am surprised that the artistic presentation got, comparatively, much lower score than the technique. Notwithstanding, the technical score reflects the seamless execution of their transitions, lifts ... elements which makes the program looked cohesive ... whole. V/M should be concerned about this score - it's way, way higher than theirs. I believe the Ballet dancer who they collaborated with (choreographed the number?) on this program has been a tremendous help. If their SD is as good as their FD, they'll be the team to beat in this Olympic season, of course, assuming they don't make impactful mistakes _ a fall or a botched element.

Based on their total score, they got 80.54 for their SD. I think the scores are a bit inflated but they do deserve a high score for their FD - not necessarily a 123, a 116-117, maybe.

--------------

I watched V/M's FD dance again, I think, the Olympic competition will be a repeat of D/W & V/M rivalry. It will be about whose style appeals the judges more.

 

[daphenaxa]

Their free dance made me loose my damn mind :sad46: i love them so much and i missed them. i want to throw all my belongings and money to them

 

[AliAle]

Here's a new video showing their score https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9Z310TWbGc and it is a phenomenal score. I am surprised that the artistic presentation got, comparatively, much lower score than the technique.

That's because the technical score is mathematically limited to a max. of 64.70 (all L4, all 3 GOE), while the PCS is limited to 60 (all 10s). Anyway, 123 out of 124.7 is a monstrous score and clearly inflated, they might be able to get 120 or slightly over under the right conditions (hitting all their levels, perfect execution, skating last or at least after V/M).

 

[icetigger]

That's because the technical score is mathematically limited to a max. of 64.70 (all L4, all 3 GOE), while the PCS is limited to 60 (all 10s). Anyway, 123 out of 124.7 is a monstrous score and clearly inflated, they might be able to get 120 or slightly over under the right conditions (hitting all their levels, perfect execution, skating last or at least after V/M).

120 at the Olympics would be about right as a highest score. I don't think we will see level 4 on the circular step from them, so that would be what they scored at worlds this year plus a bit of Olympics inflation. It also depends on how the season/event goes; and what order they are placed in the competition.

 

[cocotaffy]

They're so ready even though they have never had such a complex FD full of interesting transitions. I'm impressed and relieved. But above all, I love how they work on two levels, constantly up and down on the ice, both of them. At first, Guillaume's drops are so balletic and mesmerizing I didn't notice Gaby was also working up and down. This is a new way of moving for them which gives this FD a fresh look despite being lyrical. Comparing with their Mozart, they absolutely don't use the same range of movements. They grew a lot as skaters and artists.
Of course, there is still much to improve like the ending lift, gaining more speed and I believe Gaby messed up during the exit of the pirouette before Guillaume did that beautiful lunge. But above all, I need a good version from the jury point of view. So I hope they'll have a good skate next week, no mistakes hopefully and we'll have then the full picture.

 

[Astrid56]

That's because the technical score is mathematically limited to a max. of 64.70 (all L4, all 3 GOE), while the PCS is limited to 60 (all 10s). Anyway, 123 out of 124.7 is a monstrous score and clearly inflated, they might be able to get 120 or slightly over under the right conditions (hitting all their levels, perfect execution, skating last or at least after V/M).

I don't know the scoring process but that aside, I still would not give the dance a score of 123. I like it very, very much but it's not that perfect to get that score. I am not a fan of V/M but I'd say their FD performance is on par with this one. The optics of P/C's is much better, more organic than V/M's but the latter's command of their program is much stronger. Of course, it's too early to predict. I've also seen Coomes /Buckland's program, and I'd say that's one very powerful program (this would perfectly suit Davis/White) _ very well-constructed if only the performers' skating ability/skills are comparable to V/M and P/C.

 

[all that]

I dodn't know even what to say to that. Do you skate and say it from your expirience? Because what I've posted is real skater's words.

Yes and yes.

 

[all that]

That's because the technical score is mathematically limited to a max. of 64.70 (all L4, all 3 GOE), while the PCS is limited to 60 (all 10s). Anyway, 123 out of 124.7 is a monstrous score and clearly inflated, they might be able to get 120 or slightly over under the right conditions (hitting all their levels, perfect execution, skating last or at least after V/M).

The max score may be 124.7 but P/C really deserve a 130 -- bonus points for creating true art and changing the world of ice dance!

They have a capacity to reach sublime, to incarnate it. You hardly find "sublime" elsewhere than in classical music, that's why classical music suits them so well. Maybe they should have taken classical music for SD, but let's wait and see.

As we will see at Finlandia during their SD, they can reach sublime in any and every type of music, because they become the music every time.

ETA: Just saw the protocols. Judge 1 needs to be removed. There is no reason for 2s in the GOE or 9.75 in PCS for that masterpiece, other than entry errors.

 

[icetigger]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lgmexn7oMlM

The gala performance of the opening of MS. FILMED FROM THE RIGHT SIDE. Looks just great!

 

[Snow63]

Yes and yes.

Thanks. Well, then it's individual for everyone. Interesting anyway, and doesn't mean my point was wrong and yours is correct. May be that we're both correct. Two sided sword and all that.

 

[NoNameFace]

just wanted to pop up and say my congratulations to Gabriella and Guillaume on their successful debut of their new programs. Since I was able to re-watch their FD posted on YT yesterday several times already, here are my little two cents of first impressions...

Firstly, there is no doubt for me that this is a winning material for them, mainly because it seems to have an 'universal' appeal while carrying individual vision and philosophy. I can see those 3 last years showing through in this new FD, but at the same time it is something more, something different there - there is definitely areflection of their aesthetic of movement, interpretation we've seen in past 3 FDs, yet I personally feel less compromise over 'how the program should look like' vs 'how we want to make that program to be seen by people'. The whole image created seems to be designed, dedicated to show off the harmony and organic quality between classical character of music, modernity of interpretation and natural flow of movement - the choreography really rezonates with all three aspects mentioned, not losing Gabriella/Guillaume's sigature style, way of movement and expression; the choreography seems to accommodate those already developed qualities, their style and even expanding the,especially looking at how the program is built tempo-wise, performance-wise and transitions-wise.

I think that one of the biggest challenges of this FD could be in balancing those 3 aspects already mentioned - character of music, modernity in interpretation and organic way of movement - to achieve the universal harmony, the picture that is captivating from every angle and which could be appreciated by everyone. Saying that, I do believe that they will work on that program, build it similarly to last season's FD where they were able to reach that pinnacle and perfect performance at Worlds. I think also that another challenge posed could be associated with expression, moderation of it thorough the dance - I feel that some voices will be raised over not enough variety in their expression between two tempos in the program. Myself, I would rather see harmony in subdued expression than disruption/confusion in the variety of it, besides - for me, Gabriella and Guillaume seem to create the variety in expression through their bodies and movement, it originates from their aesthetic and way they express music, interpret it. This moderation is more subtle and not 'in-your-face'.

I really appreciate the care and attention put inside of the program from purely visual standpoint - the focus really is directed on the beauty of movement, how it works with music, not on elements per se. I respect the desire shown of blending different styles of dance, way of movement inside this one program - the ballet ingredient is very prominent there and seems to enrich and embelish the program; I think that this first showing of FD presented some 'outline' and space for those balletic influences, especially in upper body movement and arm gestures, and those will be amped depending on each performance in competitions. About arm movements - I kind of mused after watching how they would look like with Gabirella'sdress having some crystals placed startegically on arms part, or with some wings-like details there...I am no expert in costumes, just wonder if this would be too much or just right to highlight better arms work designed in this program.

I am no expert either on technicalities inside of the program, but fromthis first showing I feel personally that the first part of the dance seems to be stronger or just well-prepared for now in terms of execution of elements. Don't get me wrong - the whole programs already feels strong, intergrated, so well-thought from their personal style and vision, the concept of it is very complex yet feels effortless and that's the desired effect of the performance probably. I just think that 2nd step sequence could use more sharpness and polish in terms of body movement finish to highlight the tempo just more, to create that edge, being in contrast with softness and lyrical vibe. Also - the last lift's exit seems to be a work in progress - the position is beutiful and it's a challenge to keep the same level also on the exit (myself, I wonder if it would be possible to create an exit from it resembling 'a walk on air' by Gabriella, making it more flow-y, but I have no idea about levels and technical possibilities...).

I think that any obstacles for that program could be created only by them - the program's design is very personal, how it reflects on their nature and vision of Ice Dance. The program seems to 'dare' and challenge them in terms of creating something universal, simple to feel and understand from complexity and individual point of view. I hope that the score given to them won't be taken very seriously, but as a sign of being on the very right path, encouragng them to develop it further. I also hope that the way the program is designed, the vision of how they want to present it, the general idea won't be lost in competition reality, because this unique sensitivity of it is a huge power of the whole effect.

Really looking forward to next week

 

[MelDee]

What a good-looking bunch https://www.instagram.com/p/BZsvVhXA-4j/?taken-by=guillaumecz

 

[MelDee]

A clip of Gaby and Guillaume rehearsing the opening of their FD:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZtZl8mgWJ7/?taken-by=jeffreycirio

No wonder they seem to move differently this year, they had a movement coach:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZru-xMhfQr/?taken-by=michelleldawley

 

[maya1985]

I am back home with stars full of eyes
SD: I was quite anxious but unnecessary, I just love it. It's modern, "caliente", sexy, "they have fun". I like the costumes: sober for Guillaume but in the Latin spirit, as a Latin dance dancer; surprised by Gabi's dress but she is shining (the colors are superb with her hair).
FD: a real work of art, a real jewel, a true masterpiece :luv17:. Everything is beautiful, the transitions and the lifts are incredible, all difficulties disappear, the expression on their faces is magic. They dance with each other and for each other. Only regret: it's too short, time stops. The costumes are perfect: simple and elegant, she is divine in her dress (thank you Guillaume). I knew I was going to see a beautiful program but there I was really amazed by so much beauty, grace. All the public was standing and I think I was very lucky to be there. Thanks Gabi and Guillaume.

and it was a real pleasure to see you again Alain et à bientôt.

 

[Roast Toast]

I am trying not to become too much of a P/C uber this season, for the sake of my sanity, so I guess I will post this rant here.

I am getting a little tired of the criticism that is always leveled at Gaby and Guillaume, namely that "they have repeated the same program for 4 years", "their choices of music aren't challenging enough," "they are stagnant artistically"... All these remarks are based on the same idea -- ice dancers should show versatility -- but they never define this nebulous degree of versatility they are apparently failing, or point to a team that actually adheres to this golden standard. Is it the Shibutanis, who have been extremely open about their last three FDs and how they should be seen as an unfolding story, an evolution, something very similar to what P/C have done but not stated? Is it Tessa and Scott, who could not be doing a more "sexy Virtue and Moir free dance" this season if they had tried? Is it Weaver/Poje, who have been trying to rekindle the same magic in their last three FDs? Is it Madi and Zach, who have now apparently gone full in on Montreal mush? Is it Bobrova/Soloviev (lol), or Chock/Bates (ehh...)?

Really, the only top team that has truly, consistently reinvented itself and its style this past quad is Piper and Paul. And this kind of versatility is impressive -- it makes me root for them, and it's what made D/W as well as early V/M so good. But it's really not what I -- and, I believe, the judges -- am expecting to change between seasons. What I want to see is improved skating skills, more difficult and/or better executed elements, and most of all, a greater depth of interpretation. To me, Gaby and Guillaume have shown that in spades in the last few years. They have certainly never felt stagnant. I believe this is what hasn't been working lately for Cappellini/Lanotte, another team often accused of copy/pasting programs: they are still as lovely as they used to be, but perhaps, not more so.

I'm trying not to create too much of a strawman here, but it certainly feels as though, unless a team is doing a program to classical music one season, and a broadway showtune the next, they aren't being "versatile" enough. Considering that the same people also accuse P/C of trying too hard to be "arteests" instead of competitors, it comes off as really tone deaf, because the judges have been, by and large, rewarding their choices. The problem last season was always the short program.

/rant

 

[peepsquick]

I am trying not to become too much of a P/C uber this season, for the sake of my sanity, so I guess I will post this rant here.

I am getting a little tired of the criticism that is always leveled at Gaby and Guillaume, namely that "they have repeated the same program for 4 years", "their choices of music aren't challenging enough," "they are stagnant artistically"... All these remarks are based on the same idea -- ice dancers should show versatility -- but they never define this nebulous degree of versatility they are apparently failing, or point to a team that actually adheres to this golden standard. Is it the Shibutanis, who have been extremely open about their last three FDs and how they should be seen as an unfolding story, an evolution, something very similar to what P/C have done but not stated? Is it Tessa and Scott, who could not be doing a more "sexy Virtue and Moir free dance" this season if they had tried? Is it Weaver/Poje, who have been trying to rekindle the same magic in their last three FDs? Is it Madi and Zach, who have now apparently gone full in on Montreal mush? Is it Bobrova/Soloviev (lol), or Chock/Bates (ehh...)?

Really, the only top team that has truly, consistently reinvented itself and its style this past quad is Piper and Paul. And this kind of versatility is impressive -- it makes me root for them, and it's what made D/W as well as early V/M so good. But it's really not what I -- and, I believe, the judges -- am expecting to change between seasons. What I want to see is improved skating skills, more difficult and/or better executed elements, and most of all, a greater depth of interpretation. To me, Gaby and Guillaume have shown that in spades in the last few years. They have certainly never felt stagnant. I believe this is what hasn't been working lately for Cappellini/Lanotte, another team often accused of copy/pasting programs: they are still as lovely as they used to be, but perhaps, not more so.

I'm trying not to create too much of a strawman here, but it certainly feels as though, unless a team is doing a program to classical music one season, and a broadway showtune the next, they aren't being "versatile" enough. Considering that the same people also accuse P/C of trying too hard to be "arteests" instead of competitors, it comes off as really tone deaf, because the judges have been, by and large, rewarding their choices. The problem last season was always the short program.

/rant

Thank you, Road Toast! I am going through the same aggravation and tried to address the issue a couple of times but it is frustrating at the best of times. I could not have expressed it better than you did.