Gabriella Papadakis & Guillaume Cizeron | Page 201 | Golden Skate

Gabriella Papadakis & Guillaume Cizeron

I think her wardrope issue was unlucky and it might cost them the gold. I do wonder why they did not cover the dress with something better but what's done is done.
But they did skate so well in the FD and people should be happy to see 2 of the greatest FD in the current history.
 
I think her wardrope issue was unlucky and it might cost them the gold. I do wonder why they did not cover the dress with something better but what's done is done.
But they did skate so well in the FD and people should be happy to see 2 of the greatest FD in the current history.

really ? So why you say other things in the main thread/ claiming that they should score 78 and Gabriella was not focused whole program and that wardrobe issue doesnt matter in the end
 
I think her wardrope issue was unlucky and it might cost them the gold. I do wonder why they did not cover the dress with something better but what's done is done.
But they did skate so well in the FD and people should be happy to see 2 of the greatest FD in the current history.

I don't know about 2 greatest. I mean only one program was truly artistically original and aesthetically sublime. My friend commented that P/C made all others look like they are truck drivers.
 
I may or may not have just rewatched Build a Home. I melted into my computer at the gorgeousness :luv17: It never grows old.

I know medals are what we focus on but those timeless performances are the piece of heaven on earth that I live for. :bow:
 
I was oddly calm today, after the initial shock upon seeing results in the morning. The right words don't come to me right now, but I'm not heartbroken because of the ~lost gold~... They won a silver and moreover, what is actually important, is how hard they've fought for this. Not just yesterday and not today, when they skated their hearts and souls out, but every day for the past year (or four...). They deserve to be happy with their accomplishment and to have the fan wars be left behind.

I found some fantastic gif on tumblr: This one and this are simply hypnotic. And here is the whole set
I love how you can watch gifs over and over to focus on details and they capture specific moments so well.

Those are beautiful
 
An article from a dance critic at the NYT :agree:
French Olympic Ice Dancers Make Skating as Ethereal as Ballet

"But as a dance critic, I judge skating by different rules, and to me, no team, gold medal or not, matches the artistry of Ms. Papadakis and Mr. Cizeron."

OMG!! Thank you so much for sharing this!! This is the kind of article I have been waiting for -- one coming from the dance world. [So many] memorable quotes from the article (besides the one you already quoted), [such as]:

"When a free dance program shows two bodies moving as one, as Ms. Papadakis and Mr. Cizeron’s did, it is just as ethereal as ballet. Suddenly, a competition is a conduit for more than skating. It’s a window into another space and time: eerie, quiet, floating."[ ...]
 
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An article from a dance critic at the NYT :agree:
French Olympic Ice Dancers Make Skating as Ethereal as Ballet

"But as a dance critic, I judge skating by different rules, and to me, no team, gold medal or not, matches the artistry of Ms. Papadakis and Mr. Cizeron."

That article says it all, about the genre of ice dance in general and about Gabi and Guillaume in particular. I particularly appreciate the comments about the depth of the field and the way so many teams were experimenting - the Shibs with their storytelling about ambition and beauty, Cappellini and Lanotte with their delicate romance, the James Bond pair selling intrigue and switching leads, the butterfly Brits and the lovely nods to traditional dance by the Korean team. I've been thinking about it overnight, and in a way, although it's completely understandable how Virtue and Moir blasted back to the top of the field due to their consummate skill, their program felt like a step back in time.

The field's moved on. It's not all about showcasing what Belinda Noonan called "the man-woman couple" any more. So many different teams are doing more interesting things and showing that ice dance can encompass every possibility, and it just felt like a little bit of a shame that all that experimentation and evolution got overshadowed in the end by something that was innovative a while ago, but isn't now. (And, to be fair, by a stupid costume failure too.)

Though I disagree with Ms Kourlas about the Shibutanis skating to Coldplay - for starters, I'd hardly call it sensual! :laugh: And I've never seen them skate with more emotional abandon and genuine vulnerability. They charmed me.
 
That article says it all, about the genre of ice dance in general and about Gabi and Guillaume in particular. I particularly appreciate the comments about the depth of the field and the way so many teams were experimenting - the Shibs with their storytelling about ambition and beauty, Cappellini and Lanotte with their delicate romance, the James Bond pair selling intrigue and switching leads, the butterfly Brits and the lovely nods to traditional dance by the Korean team. I've been thinking about it overnight, and in a way, although it's completely understandable how Virtue and Moir blasted back to the top of the field due to their consummate skill, their program felt like a step back in time.

The field's moved on. It's not all about showcasing what Belinda Noonan called "the man-woman couple" any more. So many different teams are doing more interesting things and showing that ice dance can encompass every possibility, and it just felt like a little bit of a shame that all that experimentation and evolution got overshadowed in the end by something that was innovative a while ago, but isn't now. (And, to be fair, by a stupid costume failure too.)

Though I disagree with Ms Kourlas about the Shibutanis skating to Coldplay - for starters, I'd hardly call it sensual! :laugh: And I've never seen them skate with more emotional abandon and genuine vulnerability. They charmed me.

I very much agree with everything you said ! You have many choices in the competition. And I also disagree about the Shibs, it was not sensual at all :scratch2: But then we've been watching them for a long time and maybe people aren't used to it yet ? But they'll be now :thumbsup:

About the dance teams that dance together, often like one, I'd easily say :

-Anna & Luca : It's not about projecting Anna, it's having fun together, you cannot find a more lovely and charming couple on the ice. Chemistry is crazy good.

-Shibs : These Olympic Games, they let it all out. Even if the song Paradis is about "the girl reaching Paradise", it was them skating together and not 2 entities.

-PapaCiz : No need to describe it, we all get it. It's symbiotic, they skate like one. Sometimes, he'll do a move and you're like, "wow". Sometimes, it's her. And it's unexpected. All about emotions and detailling. It's very difficult.

I might be forgetting other people ! But these are the 3 that comes to mind. And Ice Dance will still evolves. But I'm so happy that they can reach the Dance World ! :yahoo:
 
Thanks icetigger!
Sounds like the French fed is not aware VM won't compete in Milan.

Hmmm, I'm not sure. It may be an attempt to spin their not turning up in to them not daring to go up against P/C again......

After all, without the wardrobe malfunction, P/C would have won.
 
I'm so happy for two clean free skates from both teams and honestly think this was the right result in the end.

But I just wanted to drop by here and from the viewpoint of someone who loves both teams THANK YOU most of you P/C fans for being really respectful and a good sport. I'm not sure it woul've happend the other way around.

P/C rise through the past years has been incredible and I'm sure after the initial disappointment faded they'll realize what they have truly accomplished. They have a bright future.
 
Yesterday, after rewatching Build a Home and melting into my computer I went down a rabbit hole and rewatched their FDs for the quad. A couple thoughts:

1. I've never given them enough credit for their hard work. The Mozart program is beautiful and gives a preview of what was to come, but there were still areas of choppiness and some hops here and there. Regardless I loved the freshness and lack of restraint. But you can tell they really got to work during the offseason because . . ..

2. By the next year their skating skills were ridiculous. Build a Home sounds like it was composed for them. Ethereal and transcendent. :luv17:

3. Stillness was not heartwarming in the same way, but respect! :bow: I love their more avant garde exploration of more complicated music. In some ways I think they start breaking some conventions of ice dance here, so looking back this might be an extremely important program.

4. Moonlight Sonata felt like an Olympic year compromise. However, yesterday I tried not to think about the piece of music and focus on the movement. I noticed that there is a new freedom that they're able to achieve now that Gabby is a force in her own right. They have these complimentary moments where they seems to be reaching beyond the bounds of the dance arena. I'm not absolutely sure how to explain it.

5. Some overall achievements: a) their glide is legendary already, b) they've found a way to melt twizzles into the program in a way that no other team does, c) their step sequences are far and away the best in the world. None of the choppiness of other teams.

6. I cannot wait to see what they come up with now that they don't have to worry about the Olympics and they have no close competitors. I think this battle with V/M has transformed them into Super Saiyans who will be very hard to beat in the next quad.
 
Ok, my thoughts on the Olympics (some of which may well not please everyone!)

a, I'm annoyed at their coaching team. They had four coaches at the event, and they were sent out on the ice with a costume not suitably fixed for the short dance. Yes, Gabby had personal responsibility, but when you are competing with that level of difficulty with that level of physical performance, logistical or preparatory work that is not relevant to the physical act of skating should be handled by others and competently so. It wasn't the case; and that is amateurism in my opinion. The malfunction also left a young woman to experience something that she really shouldn't have had to have experienced.
b, The short dance set pattern was one of the best I have ever seen; and with the non-touching was the best they have skated this season. They were completely on for that short dance, and I have no doubt they would have got a level 4 for the partial step.
c, The costume malfunction noticeably impacted on any point where Gabby had to perform a fast rotation- the twizzles, the double twizzle in the partial step and the turn after the straight line lift. Apart from that it had little impact on the overall performance and energy. The pcs was deserved.
d, the score without the costume malfunction would have seen about a half point increase in PCS, an amount more in GOE and a very likely level 4 for the partial step, setting them up for the win. Even without the level 4 I think they would have been much closer to V/M anyway. The costume malfunction also gave those judges antagonistic to P/C to severely lower their pcs. Leanna Caron should not functioning as a judge, but at least in the short there was a French judge as well.
e, Gabby and Guillaume were great in both dealing with the issue mid-skate and also afterwards.
f, Virtue and Moir skated the lights out of both their programmes. The free skate in particular was skated much better than they have all season. There are things that I personally have issues with- Too many turns added just for difficulty's sake, the two choreo elements don't work for me, the musicality is lost choreographically in the second half of the circular step, the twizzles at the end of the mist aren't the best timed, the transition after the rotational lift has no correspondence to anything musically etc. etc. However, the overall skating quality and performance quality were top-notch, the timing much better, and the line and strength of their more postured moments spot on. (they don't quite have P/C's ease and sense of glide though)
g, I feel that in the pressure of the competition of the freedance V/M skated a bit more like P/C and P/C a bit more like V/M.
h, the wind was against P/C in the freedance because of the skating order and the judge selection. Especially in the absence of a French judge who would have somehow counterbalanced the inappropriate and blatant political scoring of Leanna Caron.
i, In the freedance, they were really spot on with everything. The twizzles were the best they have done all season, both step sequences were spot on. The slight awkwardness after the choreo spinning movement had been rectified. The choreo lift which was changed slightly (not for the better imo at Euros) had again been very slightly tweaked and was back to being great again. In terms of the actual skating, it could not have been performed better. It had lost a little of theatricality it had earlier in the season, and I think that is due to a very necessary concentration on getting all the levels. Finlandia for example was an electrifying performance for example, but I also wouldn't have wanted them to skate like that here if they had got the same levels (or risked another fall)
j, the judges here with their pcs scores made clear that they consider P/C to be the better skaters (but only just). There is a lot of chatter about P/C deserved less than V/M etc because of the costume malfunction in the short, but the underlying fundamentals of how they skate IS seen as better by the isu judges. Both are of course way ahead of everyone else.
k, I think there is historically a tendency to cautiousness in the way that issues that arise during the season are dealt with with regard to P/C. i think particularly of that hand catch in the transitions after circular step which was fumbled at IDF. The stretch of Gabi before then for that hand catch was one of the highlights of the free skate- so simple and so effective. In its post-mistake compromised form it lost something. I think that's something that they and their coaches need to watch out for.
l, Talk of V/M having brilliantly paced themselves for the season I am hearing is nonsense. I'm sure they didn't want to go the amount of stress they probably had to go through in order for their freedance still to be rated as second-best (but only just). Plus their not winning at GPF and their getting those scores was blatantly not part of any plan.Congratulate them for being brilliant fighters, but don't make out that fight was part of some plan, because it wasn't.
j, Gabby and Guillaume broke nine world records this season. That's amazing. I wish they still had the overall score one though, of course.
k, I'm fine with the result overall, because it's a sport, them's the rules, and the lobbying and everything else that goes on is part of the sport as well (as long as it doesn't cross the line in to blatant cheating or fixing of scores). With a French judge in the free it would probably have been a little closer, and also with a different skating order, but I don't think the result would have been any different.
l, I think we will see G and G have a Mao Asada moment now. As in when she came back and was no longer this big rival for Yuna Kim and everyone fell in love with her.
m, I'm not sure how they should approach Worlds. Should they go fully out to beat V/M's score at the Olympics, using the same tactics. Or should they forget the rivalry and now skate those two programmes exactly as they want, preparing themselves for next year when they can be more indulgent, take a little more time to develop things and be a little more experimental. I think the latter.
n, I don't see any of the current teams coming close to them in the next quad (without a radical shake up). The next team that will likely start to come close is probably Carreira and Ponomarenko, or another team in juniors.
o, Overall, I don't think Gabi and Guillaume could have worked harder, had more success this season (except the obvious), planned better or been more tactically astute this season, or have made better choices in terms of music and programmes and choreographic input. They flew a heck of a lot more than other teams and also competed in Europeans, and that should all be taken in to consideration when looking at their achievements. But for a technicality with a costume and they would have had the perfect Olympic season.


So finally, a big congratulations to them and their team for the silver! The contest and this season won't be forgotten and the details of the journey to the podium for both the top teams will always be the addendum to the results itself.

EDIT: and my favourite new bit is in the circular step just before the double twizzles where Guillaume pulls gabby's hand across his face and stares directly the judges. I think they did it at Euros but the camera angle obscured it. MARVELLOUS!
 
Ok, my thoughts on the Olympics (some of which may well not please everyone!)

a, I'm annoyed at their coaching team. They had four coaches at the event, and they were sent out on the ice with a costume not suitably fixed for the short dance. Yes, Gabby had personal responsibility, but when you are competing with that level of difficulty with that level of physical performance, logistical or preparatory work that is not relevant to the physical act of skating should be handled by others and competently so. It wasn't the case; and that is amateurism in my opinion. The malfunction also left a young woman to experience something that she really shouldn't have had to have experienced.
b, The short dance set pattern was one of the best I have ever seen; and with the non-touching was the best they have skated this season. They were completely on for that short dance, and I have no doubt they would have got a level 4 for the partial step.
c, The costume malfunction noticeably impacted on any point where Gabby had to perform a fast rotation- the twizzles, the double twizzle in the partial step and the turn after the straight line lift. Apart from that it had little impact on the overall performance and energy. The pcs was deserved.
d, the score without the costume malfunction would have seen about a half point increase in PCS, an amount more in GOE and a very likely level 4 for the partial step, setting them up for the win. Even without the level 4 I think they would have been much closer to V/M anyway. The costume malfunction also gave those judges antagonistic to P/C to severely lower their pcs. Leanna Caron should not functioning as a judge, but at least in the short there was a French judge as well.
e, Gabby and Guillaume were great in both dealing with the issue mid-skate and also afterwards.
f, Virtue and Moir skated the lights out of both their programmes. The free skate in particular was skated much better than they have all season. There are things that I personally have issues with- Too many turns added just for difficulty's sake, the two choreo elements don't work for me, the musicality is lost choreographically in the second half of the circular step, the twizzles at the end of the mist aren't the best timed, the transition after the rotational lift has no correspondence to anything musically etc. etc. However, the overall skating quality and performance quality were top-notch, the timing much better, and the line and strength of their more postured moments spot on. (they don't quite have P/C's ease and sense of glide though)
g, I feel that in the pressure of the competition of the freedance V/M skated a bit more like P/C and P/C a bit more like V/M.
h, the wind was against P/C in the freedance because of the skating order and the judge selection. Especially in the absence of a French judge who would have somehow counterbalanced the inappropriate and blatant political scoring of Leanna Caron.
i, In the freedance, they were really spot on with everything. The twizzles were the best they have done all season, both step sequences were spot on. The slight awkwardness after the choreo spinning movement had been rectified. The choreo lift which was changed slightly (not for the better imo at Euros) had again been very slightly tweaked and was back to being great again. In terms of the actual skating, it could not have been performed better. It had lost a little of theatricality it had earlier in the season, and I think that is due to a very necessary concentration on getting all the levels. Finlandia for example was an electrifying performance for example, but I also wouldn't have wanted them to skate like that here if they had got the same levels (or risked another fall)
j, the judges here with their pcs scores made clear that they consider P/C to be the better skaters (but only just). There is a lot of chatter about P/C deserved less than V/M etc because of the costume malfunction in the short, but the underlying fundamentals of how they skate IS seen as better by the isu judges. Both are of course way ahead of everyone else.
k, I think there is historically a tendency to cautiousness in the way that issues that arise during the season are dealt with with regard to P/C. i think particularly of that hand catch in the transitions after circular step which was fumbled at IDF. The stretch of Gabi before then for that hand catch was one of the highlights of the free skate- so simple and so effective. In its post-mistake compromised form it lost something. I think that's something that they and their coaches need to watch out for.
l, Talk of V/M having brilliantly paced themselves for the season I am hearing is nonsense. I'm sure they didn't want to go the amount of stress they probably had to go through in order for their freedance still to be rated as second-best (but only just). Plus their not winning at GPF and their getting those scores was blatantly not part of any plan.Congratulate them for being brilliant fighters, but don't make out that fight was part of some plan, because it wasn't.
j, Gabby and Guillaume broke nine world records this season. That's amazing. I wish they still had the overall score one though, of course.
k, I'm fine with the result overall, because it's a sport, them's the rules, and the lobbying and everything else that goes on is part of the sport as well (as long as it doesn't cross the line in to blatant cheating or fixing of scores). With a French judge in the free it would probably have been a little closer, and also with a different skating order, but I don't think the result would have been any different.
l, I think we will see G and G have a Mao Asada moment now. As in when she came back and was no longer this big rival for Yuna Kim and everyone fell in love with her.
m, I'm not sure how they should approach Worlds. Should they go fully out to beat V/M's score at the Olympics, using the same tactics. Or should they forget the rivalry and now skate those two programmes exactly as they want, preparing themselves for next year when they can be more indulgent, take a little more time to develop things and be a little more experimental. I think the latter.
n, I don't see any of the current teams coming close to them in the next quad (without a radical shake up). The next team that will likely start to come close is probably Carreira and Ponomarenko, or another team in juniors.
o, Overall, I don't think Gabi and Guillaume could have worked harder, had more success this season (except the obvious), planned better or been more tactically astute this season, or have made better choices in terms of music and programmes and choreographic input. They flew a heck of a lot more than other teams and also competed in Europeans, and that should all be taken in to consideration when looking at their achievements. But for a technicality with a costume and they would have had the perfect Olympic season.


So finally, a big congratulations to them and their team for the silver! The contest and this season won't be forgotten and the details of the journey to the podium for both the top teams will always be the addendum to the results itself.

Fantastic overview of everything. Very comprehensive
 
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