Gachinski aims to become Russia's next top skater

[sillylionlove]

He looked so handsome in his pink shirt that some seniorita threw him a rose.

http://www.artistonice.com/imagesprivate/Evgeniros.jpg

Lol that's a great pic...so much so that I had to spit the soda I was drinking out of my mouth. Yes Lutai did have pink in his costume at Skate America in 2009. I don't remember if Yags or Plushy every did. Maybe they wore pink fruit of the looms.

Here is a link to plushy...can't tell if it's red or pink...either way it's the same color family.
http://www.kingonice.com/pmc-2004-2005.htm
http://www.kingonice.com/pmc-2000-2001.htm

 

[ibauer]

Can someone please explain to me why Mishin always has his guys skating costumes have some color of pink in them?

Part of the Mishin formula? Jumps + pink + bad hair = medal

 

[seniorita]

I ve never seen the rose pic in my life, where do you find them? The rose seems too big and the nose chopped.
MAthman did you photoshop this?

 

[sillylionlove]

Part of the Mishin formula? Jumps + pink + bad hair = medal

Don't forget the gloves, they always wear gloves.

I actually met Mishin at 2009 Skate America. I should have asked him about this.

 

[lavender]

The one who beat Artur at Nationals must be going by the same Mishin/Plushenko formula. Pretty outdated.

 

[Bluebonnet]

LOL, of course not! I´m surprised that there still are skating fans, who apparently don´t understand the difference between a 6.0 and a CoP programme.... My understanding is that a succesful CoP programme is a quality programme in various areas. A quad is great, but it is still just one element, although it of course gives a high score, if successful.

Apparently understanding the difference between 6.0 and CoP was not my issue here. What I don't understand was what was the extra importance of transitions? You made it seems that transition was extremely important and more important than a quad jump.

The maxmum transition score one could get is 10. Even the best transitional skater Patrick Chan has never ever gotten 10 for it (or 10 on any segment for any skaters). A quad jump, even though it's just one element, if it's sucessfully executed, is 10.30 in base value alone. Not to consider that there are GOEs on top of it if executed well. So which one is more important in CoP?

 

[Serious Business]

The maxmum transition score one could get is 10. Even the best transitional skater Patrick Chan has never ever gotten 10 for it (or 10 on any segment for any skaters). A quad jump, even though it's just one element, if it's sucessfully executed, is 10.30 in base value alone. Not to consider that there are GOEs on top of it if executed well. So which one is more important in CoP?

The transition score, after the multiplier.

 

[Jaana]

Apparently understanding the difference between 6.0 and CoP was not my issue here. What I don't understand was what was the extra importance of transitions? You made it seems that transition was extremely important and more important than a quad jump.

The maxmum transition score one could get is 10. Even the best transitional skater Patrick Chan has never ever gotten 10 for it (or 10 on any segment for any skaters). A quad jump, even though it's just one element, if it's sucessfully executed, is 10.30 in base value alone. Not to consider that there are GOEs on top of it if executed well. So which one is more important in CoP?

A CoP programme is the sum of different elements and also of PCS. Let´s not forget that Lysacek won over Plushenko in technical elements even though Plushenko had a quad. Yeah, I know that a quad gives now a bit more points.... Although a skater is able to jump a quad, it is important that every element of the programme is well executed. Choreography, transitions and the rest of PCS is important, too, because from everything a skater picks up points. Maybe the difference to other skaters is not that big in various sections, but as a sum they become important, especially if a competition is close.

In Gachinski´s case I think it is of course important for him to have the quad but also good programmes are important. Now it seems to me that it is the same as with Plushenko, that the programme does not matter, if a skater has a quad, LOL. From 2006 Olympics Plushenko´s freeskate served as an example of a bad CoP programme, and I think that the 2010 one will very well serve as such also, LOL. Gachinski is a talented young skater, I would want him to have the best in everything that matters in judging.

 

[seniorita]

at least Plushenko's Olympic Programs serve at something...

 

[ciocio]

From 2006 Olympics Plushenko´s freeskate served as an example of a bad CoP programme, and I think that the 2010 one will very well serve as such also, LOL. Gachinski is a talented young skater, I would want him to have the best in everything that matters in judging.

I´m sure Gachinski will be heartbroken if ISU use his programs as example of bad COP program AFTER they give him the gold medal!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Apparently understanding the difference between 6.0 and CoP was not my issue here. What I don't understand was what was the extra importance of transitions? You made it seems that transition was extremely important and more important than a quad jump.

I don't understand what Transition means. I thought is was doing a couple of step basics leading up to a jump including a Quad.

Without the steps leading up to a jump, the jump is performed the same way it is done at pracice. No music! Unfortunately, there is music involved in Figure Skating. GottaDance.

 

[seniorita]

I´m sure Gachinski will be heartbroken if ISU use his programs as example of bad COP program AFTER they give him the gold medal!

which was exactly my point. It is rather pointlessto give a skater a gold medal and sky marks and then point out afterwards in its tapes that this is a bad CoP program. And then give again the silver or platinum. And point out again the program didnt reflect them...etc
In greece we have a saying something like, after you walk away from the cash desk, no miscalculation can be claimed.

 

[Jaana]

I´m sure Gachinski will be heartbroken if ISU use his programs as example of bad COP program AFTER they give him the gold medal!

Getting the gold medal was, as always, based on the fact how other skaters skate in a particulat event, LOL. And after Plushenko won in 2006 OG there were lots and lots of postings about his freeskate programme. Nobody (as far as I remember) questioned his win, but his programme was not appreciated, except by blinded fans, of course.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

which was exactly my point. It is rather pointlessto give a skater a gold medal and sky marks and then point out afterwards in its tapes that this is a bad CoP program. And then give again the silver or platinum. And point out again the program didnt reflect them...etc
In greece we have a saying something like, after you walk away from the cash desk, no miscalculation can be claimed.

But that argument presuposes that the medal was given only to the program. It wasn't. A well-skated program in a poorly skated event is still worthy of recognition, regardless if it suits the rules. In the case of both Olympics, Plushenko undeniably outskated a whole host of skaters and deserved to beat them. That doesn't mean that his program is the ideal program to aim for for those hoping to construct a great COP program.

 

[ibauer]

I don't understand what Transition means. I thought is was doing a couple of step basics leading up to a jump including a Quad.

Without the steps leading up to a jump, the jump is performed the same way it is done at pracice. No music! Unfortunately, there is music involved in Figure Skating. GottaDance.

According to the ISU:


Transitions/Linking Footwork & Movement

Definition:

The varied and/or intricate footwork, positions, movements, and holds that link all elements. In
singles, pairs, and synchronize skating this also includes the entrances and exits of technical elements.

Criteria:
Variety
Difficulty
Intricacy
Quality (including unison in Pair Skating and Ice Dancing)
Balance of workload between partners (Pair Skating and Ice Dancing)
Variety of Dance holds (not excessive side by side and hand in hand – Ice Dancing)


Transitions can be short or long, including the use of blade, body, head, arms, legs as dictated by the
music. (Minimum use of cross-cuts)

 

[seniorita]

Nobody (as far as I remember) questioned his win, but his programme was not appreciated, except by blinded fans, of course.

Are you sure a great Cop designed program is always appreciated? Depends who is skating it. Otherwise the coaches and choreographers would compete instead.
Actually the most blinded fans i know-leave the enthusiasm of the win aside- acknowledge the fact that Plush didnt skate it like euros 2005 for example and was a supbar performance and not a masterpiece of program that night, so I dont think what you claim is correct, I haven't met someone who said the opposite but then they have seen 2-3 godfathers more to compare. Does ISU take examples only from free skates of Olympics by the way?

I totally agree ImaginaryPogue with all your post, i didnt think of it that way. I was thinking about the marks not the result. Like we gave the skater 7-8 for choreo and transitions, but look this is not good choreography neither there is lot of transitions. This doesnt deserve an 8 but we gave him anyway, then we gave him again in the next Olys and now we teach you this is bad, dont try it at home. Thats what is was thinking about the tapes.

 

[Bluebonnet]

The transition score, after the multiplier.

Actually, the transition score is much lower than a single quad jump in SP, like I said in the previous post. Transition score may or may not be higher than a single quad jump in LP because the PCS factor in LP is 2. The transition score a skater received in LP is doubled. However, a completely executed quad jump with a combo may well pass the transition score even in LP.

I'm completely aware that the skating needs to be well rounded in all areas because it's an accumulating of the points. My point was and is that there is no reason to go extra mile to emphasize the importance of transitions. Transition is just one of the five elements in PCS. It is as important as the rest of four elements. A quad jump is as important if not more important than transitions.

The arguement of no need for quad jumps because a skater could succeed without it sounds funny to me. If we follow that path of thinking, I could argue that a skater doesn't need transition at all (of course, it's not possible. A skater will have transitions, maybe a low transition score.) if he could make a few successful quad jumps in his program. Why not? Whether I like this kind of program or not is another question. But that transitions over rule quad jumps is not right. Sorry it's a little OT.

Back to Gachinski. I like him ...minus the pink gloves.

 

[gmyers]

Based on the way people talk about transitions you would think that the ISU rules said something like 1. spread eagle before a jump, ina bauer before a jump, split jump before a jump, kick before a jump -Chan rule, squat knee bend before a jump -Lysacek rule LOL. So called arm flailing would be a transitions under the ISU-it's a body movement! Even what Gachinski does and Mishin skaters do with throwing the arms up after a jump would count.

 

[ciocio]

Getting the gold medal was, as always, based on the fact how other skaters skate in a particulat event, LOL. And after Plushenko won in 2006 OG there were lots and lots of postings about his freeskate programme. Nobody (as far as I remember) questioned his win, but his programme was not appreciated, except by blinded fans, of course.

Can you quote the blinded fans who think the freskate was the skate of his life and the best COP program ever, or it's just your supposition? I'll be waiting for the quotes!

 

[ciocio]

By the way can someone explain who, when and why started the transitions mania? And why people paradoxically think that a program should be balanced but if you have transitions other elements can miss?:think: