Goodbye CA Lites, hello... what?

[mixed_berry_frangipane]

Going for an appointment with a trusted skate tech soon, but wanted to be prepared with research beforehand.

QUESTION: what blade to move to after Coronation Ace Lites?

CURRENT EQUIP (since 2022):
Jackson boots - EDIT: Discovered they are Jackson Elite 2900, a discontinued model.
At my fitting appt for these skates I found that many boot options the ankle/heel was too wiggly. The boots I have now felt good but I ended up having to get a pair of those ankle sleeves that add volume to prevent the heel from coming up. I also have some insoles to help with mild pronation.
I can squish the ankle on the right and left (left is a bit more stiff), no visible cracks or creases in the side of the boots. New laces in Feb 2025. Still need to regularly retie right boot (see more on that in Successes).

Coronation Ace Lite blades. Didn't know anything about blades at the time and I think the regular version were out of stock so I just went with it. I don't have much previous experience because I went from some random used skates I had for 13 years to what I have now.

BODY STATS:

• I'm a small adult (5'3", 95-100lbs), with skinny ankles, narrow/small/short Greek feet. Not sure about my arch height - some folks have said they're high, and some folks have said they are regular. So maybe something in between.
• Proportionally very long legs (so far this is mostly affecting my ability to do sit spins well).
• Recent back injury (L5-S1 disc bulge on the right side, guessing due to repetitive stress after suddenly increasing jumping practice).
• Joint injury history: Left knee 2x, left ankle 1x, right knee/IT band 1x

SKATE LEVEL:

• Soon to test Adult Gold Skating Skills and hopefully speedrun Adult Intermediate since half the test is the same lol.
• Just getting into figures, dunno if/where/when that will be something I test. So far just enjoying tracing my circles!
• Theoretically working on Adult Silver but it is (specifically jumps) not a priority.

CONCERNS/THOUGHTS:

• I've been struggling with spins, and part of me wonders how much of that is because of the blade. People always say the sweet spot is under the ball of the foot but I swear that the sweet spot in my current setup is more smack dab in the middle of my foot. It's hard for me to find it because I think I naturally want to be a bit more forward on the blade to spin. Could this also be a mounting issue? Unsure.
• Sit spins are slowly improving but a massive struggle to stay so far back on the sweet spot but also get down low enough (not a strength issue - I can do a pistol squat and hold). For me, getting low and keeping a straight leg (which is one of my sit spin goals, no bent leg for me!) with my proportionally long legs = the balance point is right over the ball of my foot. I have had successful sit spins where I am "low enough" but I slow down a ton and have to bail on the spin after only a few revs.
• Jump + backspin drills are also a challenge, likely because of this exact issue. I land and roll down to the ball of my foot but scrape there instead of turning there. It's so odd
• Hoping my next blade choice will have a spin rocker that's farther forward to the place I want to be / easier to find.
• I've also read/heard that "rev" versions of blades provide some amount of cushioning when it comes to landing. I'm still being cautious with how much I practice jumps due to my back injury but extra cushioning is intriguing to me.
• Would like to keep the length of blade because I'm scared if the tail gets too long I'll do the blade click of death, which happened to me for the first time in a long time a few months ago and I'm still traumatized lol.
• Dunno how it would be going from a 7' to 8' rocker. Would I struggle with turns or getting into spins?

SUCCESSES:

• Haven't really had issues with jumping at all aside from I feel like I'm going to roll my ankle every time I land, due to boot breaking down.
• I also need to regularly retie my right skate, and if I'm planning to do jumps I tie my right skate up to 4 hooks and leave my left on 3 hooks - and they feel equally stable that way. If I leave my right on 3 hooks I just feel like I have a too much ankle mobility lol!
• Turns have been coming along nicely. No issues with double 3s or brackets. I sometimes practice counters to switch it up. For whatever reason rockers are very difficult for me. Twizzles are okay.
• Camel spins are surprisingly okay, and I think this is because I'm used to pushing my foot forward underneath me. I used to gamble with spiral faceplants until I started this technique, which shifts my weight further back towards the middle/heel. So I'm used to this position and that seems to be exactly where the sweet spot is.

PRIORITIES:
Improving my spins. Continuing moves/skating skills as I get into more difficult turns & precision with figures.


Anyway, I'd love to go into my appointment with some idea of what I'm looking for instead of spouting all of this to the skate tech. There are just so many options out there and I know blades / boots are very personal. Any anecdotes or thoughts are welcomed!

 

[IceM]

CA lites are notoriously different from regular CAs, when it comes to the profile of the blade. They are much, much flatter. So standard CAs or MK Pros are worth a shot. The tail on MK Pro is longer, so if that's something you want, go with MK Pro.

If those don't work, or if you're sure that you really want an "aggressive" spin rocker very far towards the toes, then Gold Seal is the way to go (or Paramount 12" which has more accurate profile and tends to have even more aggressive spin rocker, because it's machined to precisely that 12", unlike genuine GS that tend to come slightly flatter, probably due to some manual processes JW uses). Gold Seal tail is also very long. These are "advanced" blades, though, with taller stanchions, so a word of caution there (Paramount is even taller and longer, which is crazy).

 

[FSFan1999]

Honestly, I think regular coronation ace would work better for you than lites as the spin rocker (for me) is more pronounced.

I wouldn't really recommend an upgrade at your level. Anything more advanced than coronation ace is only really recommended when doing higher level jumps and spins, as whilst more advanced blades like gold seal can improve spins, they also require more precision which makes it harder for skaters who are still figuring out the spin technique and consistency.

For skates, if Jackson is the right brand then something like Debuts would probably be appropriate for your weight and level, but I'll wait for a boot expert to comment based on the details of your foot shape.

 

[tstop4me]

Jackson boots (couldn't tell you exactly what model. It's not written anywhere on, in, or under the boot. I've tried comparing them visually to all the photos that Jackson has on their website but I'm thinking they are an old version, so either discontinued or redesigned).

Look for an inked four digit code on the inside lining of the boots around 1-1/2" to 2" below the top collar. If the lining is dark, you might need to shine a penlight on the surface, since the contrast will be poor. Assuming the boots you bought in 2022 were new and not used, the code should still be there (on old boots, the ink may have rubbed off).

 

[mixed_berry_frangipane]

Look for an inked four digit code on the inside lining of the boots around 1-1/2" to 2" below the top collar. If the lining is dark, you might need to shine a penlight on the surface, since the contrast will be poor. Assuming the boots you bought in 2022 were new and not used, the code should still be there (on old boots, the ink may have rubbed off).

Aha - looks like my boots are the discontinued Jackson Elite (2900)!

 

[tstop4me]

Aha - looks like my boots are the discontinued Jackson Elite (2900)!

They must have been old stock. I'm fairly sure the Elite 2900 was discontinued well before 2022. I checked an old pair of Jacksons sitting in my closet; it just happens to be the men's Elite 2952 that I bought in late 2014. The current roughly equivalent model of your Elite 2900 would be the Supreme 5300. It still has leather uppers; but the tongue is radically different (needs special break-in), and the latest revision has PBX synthetic sole and heel.

 

[mixed_berry_frangipane]

It still has leather uppers; but the tongue is radically different (needs special break-in), and the latest revision has PBX synthetic sole and heel.

Any thoughts on sticking with leather or going synthetic? I don't really know what's out there and have only ever used leather. Also - it seems like everyone I know is in either Auras, Edeas, or something custom. I suppose it also depends on what the skate shop has readily available.

 

[mixed_berry_frangipane]

CA lites are notoriously different from regular CAs, when it comes to the profile of the blade. They are much, much flatter.

Wish I had known more about this before I agreed to go with the CA Lite. Well, I wish I had known more about blades in general before spending all that cash! Either way it was a serious upgrade from what I was using before.

 

[tstop4me]

Any thoughts on sticking with leather or going synthetic? I don't really know what's out there and have only ever used leather. Also - it seems like everyone I know is in either Auras, Edeas, or something custom. I suppose it also depends on what the skate shop has readily available.

Sorry, I can't answer this. I've only worn leather boots; or more correctly, boots with leather uppers, since many boots with leather uppers have some synthetic components. But, just as there is wide variation in leather material (e.g., initial selection of hide and processing), there is even wider variation in synthetic materials (e.g., different chemical compositions and processing) ... so be careful about generalizations.

Also, some boot makers have adopted the computer software marketing philosophy: launch a new product without thorough testing, let the customers find the bugs for you, and fix the bugs in later revisions (and introduce new bugs in the process! ). So be careful when asking skaters what their experiences with a particular model were (what vintage?).

 

[FSFan1999]

Any thoughts on sticking with leather or going synthetic? I don't really know what's out there and have only ever used leather. Also - it seems like everyone I know is in either Auras, Edeas, or something custom. I suppose it also depends on what the skate shop has readily available.

Most important is fit and strength. Material is a secondary consideration.

Ice flies and pianos tend to break down quicker and more dramatically than leather boots - the material being weaker than leather. Auras don't ever seem to properly "break in"/bend. Most people (aside from those with strength to do quads) never properly bend their ankles. Risport synthetic boots seem to be the best synthetic boot in terms of a direct leather replacement, but still not perfect.

These skates of course can work well still, but unless you are doing triples I wouldn't consider really trying them when there are viable alternatives that will work well.

 

[tstop4me]

CURRENT EQUIP (since 2022):
Jackson boots - EDIT: Discovered they are Jackson Elite 2900, a discontinued model.
At my fitting appt for these skates I found that many boot options the ankle/heel was too wiggly. The boots I have now felt good but I ended up having to get a pair of those ankle sleeves that add volume to prevent the heel from coming up. I also have some insoles to help with mild pronation.
I can squish the ankle on the right and left (left is a bit more stiff), no visible cracks or creases in the side of the boots. New laces in Feb 2025. Still need to regularly retie right boot (see more on that in Successes).

Some more info, and I may be able to give you more tips.

* Please clarify: Were the boots new (old stock) or used when you bought them?

* What was the size, particularly the width?

* Did you have problems with heel slippage right from the start, or after a while (if so, roughly how long?)?

* How often (and how long per session) do you skate?

For now, my comment is you should change out your laces more frequently than 2 - 3 yrs. But more on laces and lacing after you respond to the above questions.

 

[mixed_berry_frangipane]

Some more info, and I may be able to give you more tips.

* Please clarify: Were the boots new (old stock) or used when you bought them?

* What was the size, particularly the width?

* Did you have problems with heel slippage right from the start, or after a while (if so, roughly how long?)?

* How often (and how long per session) do you skate?

For now, my comment is you should change out your laces more frequently than 2 - 3 yrs. But more on laces and lacing after you respond to the above questions.

Boots were new when I bought them - at least, I'm pretty sure they were. The skate shop I go to does sell used boots but they come from a specific section in the store.

Size stamped on the bottom is 4B.

Did not have issues with heel until maybe about 5-6 months later, would be my guess? I was feeling the heel come up and getting awful blisters. Someone recommended I get the eZeeFit ankle sleeves, which I have been using since then, and no problems.

My skating schedule varies - for example, from about Dec 2024 - Feb 2025 (injury) I would try to go 5-9 hrs/week. Post-injury I was doing about 3-5 hrs/week. Then I scaled down even more when it happened again and the doctor told me to pump the brakes. April - May this year I was going 2-4 hrs/week. In the summer with less ice time available near me I am only doing about 1.5 hrs/week, hoping to bring that up to 3 if I can find some ice time.

Session length also depends. There was a rink near me that had a 3-hr freestyle session that was practically empty so I would try to stay the whole 3 hours. Some other sessions, like open skate (that are empty enough to really practice) are only 1-1.5 hrs long. I'd say somewhere between 1.5-2 hours and I have to tap out.

When I first started noticing issues with looseness, a friend suggested I get new laces and the skate tech at the shop was shook that it had been so long. I think the laces had stretched out several inches.

 

[mixed_berry_frangipane]

Ice flies and pianos tend to break down quicker and more dramatically than leather boots

I keep hearing/reading that Edeas break down quickly. It's surprising to me that so many people have them, then. One of the most advanced skaters I skate/interact with (working on triple axel) has Edeas and just keeps buying new boots frequently.
I believe the skate shop I go to actively does not sell Edeas unless you really want them, and even then they try to talk you out of it.

 

[FSFan1999]

I keep hearing/reading that Edeas break down quickly. It's surprising to me that so many people have them, then. One of the most advanced skaters I skate/interact with (working on triple axel) has Edeas and just keeps buying new boots frequently.
I believe the skate shop I go to actively does not sell Edeas unless you really want them, and even then they try to talk you out of it.

It partly isn't the fault of Edea - Edea are suited to a certain foot shape, yet often pushed on anybody by many shops as they are an easy sell (basically feel comfortable the second you put them on). The result is most people in Edea are not really best suited to Edea. But the synthetic materials of the ice fly/pianos do in my experience still break down quicker than concerto for example. That could just be though the synthetic material being damaged when being "contorted" to fit a foot shape it wasn't built for, or being tied too strongly to hug the foot (not confirmed but just a thought I had).

There are possibly other quality control issues though that I wouldn't rule out. But certainly I couldn't get a pair of ice flies to last more than a few months (vs the equivalent in other brands like Jackson that lasted more or less 1 year).

 

[IceM]

I keep hearing/reading that Edeas break down quickly. It's surprising to me that so many people have them, then. One of the most advanced skaters I skate/interact with (working on triple axel) has Edeas and just keeps buying new boots frequently.
I believe the skate shop I go to actively does not sell Edeas unless you really want them, and even then they try to talk you out of it.

I think Edeas breaking faster is often related to foot alignment issues. According to some statistics, only about half of the general population have a truly neutral alignment. The other half either pronate or supinate (pronation being more common) to varying degrees. I think the design just doesn't work too well when the force is applied to one side of the boot more when foot alignment isn't truly neutral.

It partly isn't the fault of Edea - Edea are suited to a certain foot shape, yet often pushed on anybody by many shops as they are an easy sell (basically feel comfortable the second you put them on). The result is most people in Edea are not really best suited to Edea. But the synthetic materials of the ice fly/pianos do in my experience still break down quicker than concerto for example. That could just be though the synthetic material being damaged when being "contorted" to fit a foot shape it wasn't built for, or being tied too strongly to hug the foot (not confirmed but just a thought I had).

There are possibly other quality control issues though that I wouldn't rule out. But certainly I couldn't get a pair of ice flies to last more than a few months (vs the equivalent in other brands like Jackson that lasted more or less 1 year).

I don't think suitability in terms of foot shape has anything to do with the durability of the design itself. My Ice Flyes were very comfortable, yet broke down practically within weeks. I think it has to do with the design relying on neutral alignment while having very hard and somewhat "brittle", unflexible walls on the sides of the boot, that simply break when unequal force is applied to one side more than the other. Nor do I think Edeas are absolutely prone to breaking fast under optimal circumtances, as Yuzu could skate some 4 years on his Ice Flyes...

And if you count the number of people who are both suitable for Edeas in terms of foot shape, and have truly neutral foot alignement, then you don't end up with that great a number of people, so that's perhaps not something that manufacturers and retailers want to advertise. After all, breaking boots fast means more sales, especially when people are willing to buy and wait insane delivery times too...

 

[FSFan1999]

Nor do I think Edeas are absolutely prone to breaking fast under optimal circumtances, as Yuzu could skate some 4 years on his Ice Flyes...

It's worth noting that Hanyu had many many pairs of boots and blades, that he constantly rotated. He didn't use a single pair for 4 years, he used many pairs for 4 years, swapping them out on a certain rotation (the length of rotation is unclear to me - it could be swapping the pairs every month or swapping them every week). So yes, he had ice fly boots that lasted 4 years, but they didn't have 4 years worth of skating in them - a burden shared over many pairs of them.

 

[IceM]

It's worth noting that Hanyu had many many pairs of boots and blades, that he constantly rotated. He didn't use a single pair for 4 years, he used many pairs for 4 years, swapping them out on a certain rotation (the length of rotation is unclear to me - it could be swapping the pairs every month or swapping them every week). So yes, he had ice fly boots that lasted 4 years, but they didn't have 4 years worth of skating in them - a burden shared over many pairs of them.

Sure, but it's also worth noting that someone like Hanuy probably put more wear on those boots in those 4 years than the average Joe would in 4 years, too.

And I don't know the specifics in Yuzu's case, but professionals that I do know don't like "rotating" equipment that often. Sure, you have backup boots, but you generally want to skate on a pair you've dialed in and feel comfortable with.

 

[FSFan1999]

Sure, but it's also worth noting that someone like Hanuy probably put more wear on those boots in those 4 years than the average Joe would in 4 years, too.

And I don't know the specifics in Yuzu's case, but professionals that I do know don't like "rotating" equipment that often. Sure, you have backup boots, but you generally want to skate on a pair you've dialed in and feel comfortable with.

I know specifically about Hanyus case, as one of his coaches told me about it in a conversation. He would also fairly frequently send skates by airmail to get them sharpened in Japan. He very quickly adapted when he changed the boots, but liked to break them in evenly (so each set of skates would have similar wear). It's not the case of a normal skarer having backup skates, it genuinely was a rotation of skates. This is specifically about Hanyu, almost no other skater does this. And that's why sometimes he has boots that last a very long time (but apparently on average they lasted 3 months or so when accounting for the time not spent skating in a specific pair). Maybe I misunderstood the coach though, but this was what I got from the conversation with them.

As for the equipment wear and tear of course he was jumping many many quads, it's not equivalent to what a normal skater would expect.

My Ice Flyes were very comfortable, yet broke down practically within weeks.

I want to go back to this as I seemingly missed it.

The point of edeas is almost everybody finds them comfortable, even when their feet are totally unsuited to them (shape wise). From everybody I know, I don't think a single one has put on a pair of edea skates and not immediately found them comfortable vs other skates. Yet many of them werent suited to edea. That's why they sell so well, and one of the problems when it comes to getting the right fit.

 

[IceM]

I know specifically about Hanyus case, as one of his coaches told me about it in a conversation. He would also fairly frequently send skates by airmail to get them sharpened in Japan. He very quickly adapted when he changed the boots, but liked to break them in evenly (so each set of skates would have similar wear). It's not the case of a normal skarer having backup skates, it genuinely was a rotation of skates. This is specifically about Hanyu, almost no other skater does this. And that's why sometimes he has boots that last a very long time (but apparently on average they lasted 3 months or so when accounting for the time not spent skating in a specific pair). Maybe I misunderstood the coach though, but this was what I got from the conversation with them.

As for the equipment wear and tear of course he was jumping many many quads, it's not equivalent to what a normal skater would expect.


I want to go back to this as I seemingly missed it.

The point of edeas is almost everybody finds them comfortable, even when their feet are totally unsuited to them (shape wise). From everybody I know, I don't think a single one has put on a pair of edea skates and not immediately found them comfortable vs other skates. Yet many of them werent suited to edea. That's why they sell so well, and one of the problems when it comes to getting the right fit.

Damn, that's a lot of boots to shuffle (like 16?), but the point he didn't skate on a single pair for that long is well taken, meaning that Edea's don't last that long, I guess.

As for me, I don't mean that the Edeas were merely comfortable in the shop. That's true for most people, sure, because of the padding they use, which is really good at especially hiding break-in needs, but also to Edea's credit, is actually super good and comfortable. And sure, perhaps that's a big reason why they sell so well. And create problems later.

But I mean that the Edeas were perfectly comfortable for me to skate, fit my feet fine, but that I broke them in a matter of weeks in a way that is indicative of pronation, according to Edea. And I don't even have hyperflexibility.

Which tells me that they are really bad at handling alignment issues in terms of durability, even when the fit otherwise is ok. Because other boots last just fine for me. And I think it's because the collar has some bend, and isn't integral to the support of the boot, which in Edeas is stiff and breaks easily in my case from the top, and the then it's like a falling house of cards. But I don't know, this is just based on my own experience of course.

 

[tstop4me]

CURRENT EQUIP (since 2022):
Jackson boots - EDIT: Discovered they are Jackson Elite 2900, a discontinued model.
At my fitting appt for these skates I found that many boot options the ankle/heel was too wiggly. The boots I have now felt good but I ended up having to get a pair of those ankle sleeves that add volume to prevent the heel from coming up. I also have some insoles to help with mild pronation.
I can squish the ankle on the right and left (left is a bit more stiff), no visible cracks or creases in the side of the boots. New laces in Feb 2025. Still need to regularly retie right boot (see more on that in Successes).

Boots were new when I bought them - at least, I'm pretty sure they were. The skate shop I go to does sell used boots but they come from a specific section in the store.

Size stamped on the bottom is 4B.

Did not have issues with heel until maybe about 5-6 months later, would be my guess? I was feeling the heel come up and getting awful blisters. Someone recommended I get the eZeeFit ankle sleeves, which I have been using since then, and no problems.

My skating schedule varies - for example, from about Dec 2024 - Feb 2025 (injury) I would try to go 5-9 hrs/week. Post-injury I was doing about 3-5 hrs/week. Then I scaled down even more when it happened again and the doctor told me to pump the brakes. April - May this year I was going 2-4 hrs/week. In the summer with less ice time available near me I am only doing about 1.5 hrs/week, hoping to bring that up to 3 if I can find some ice time.

Session length also depends. There was a rink near me that had a 3-hr freestyle session that was practically empty so I would try to stay the whole 3 hours. Some other sessions, like open skate (that are empty enough to really practice) are only 1-1.5 hrs long. I'd say somewhere between 1.5-2 hours and I have to tap out.

When I first started noticing issues with looseness, a friend suggested I get new laces and the skate tech at the shop was shook that it had been so long. I think the laces had stretched out several inches.

* If you continue with Jackson boots, be aware that the widths in the current lineup have changed from what they were in the days of the Elite 2900. E.g., in the current Supreme 5300, the stock widths are R(A/B) ball and W(C/D) ball. Check with your fitter whether other widths are available on special order, if needed. By R(A/B), Jackson means this: the same outsole (sized for A width ball) is used for both A width ball and B width ball. If you need B width ball, the boot is heat molded, and the uppers are expanded to accommodate the larger width ball. I had asked Jackson for further details on the heel width. Previously, a B width ball would have an A width heel. I asked them what the heel width on an R(A/B) width ball would be. The answer I got was very sketchy and unsatisfactory. At any rate, since the heel pockets are not readily modifiable, be sure the heel pockets fit properly as is. [The heel width on men's Supreme 5362 I purchased late 2022 felt about the same as that on the men's Elite 2952 that I purchased late 2014. But in Jacksons, men's and women's sizing protocols are different, so you need to double check.]

* I rooted around the Wayback Machine for archives of jacksonultima websites to find out when the Elite 2900 was discontinued. But I didn't find any useful info. I then have to fall back to my recollection; I think it was sometime in 2016 that the Elite was redesigned from leather uppers to synthetic microfiber uppers (if anyone has better info, please let me know). If you bought them sometime in 2022, that means they were sitting on the shelf for 4+ yrs. Most of the boot probably held up OK, but the sponge foam on the tongue liners probably deteriorated. This could have led to your heel slippage after you skated on them for 5 - 6 months. If this is the case (have a fitter check), the sponge liners can be replaced. Alternatively, you can insert supplementary tongue liners between the tongues and your feet. I have a previous post on this if you're interested.

* If you're having an issue with the need for frequent re-lacing, you can swap out the Jackson laces for waxed Edge laces from Derby Laces. You can also change the lacing pattern. I have a previous post on this if you're interested.