Grand Prix Assignments 2023/24 released

[TallyT]

This is just my opinion, and an emotional reaction. Because - as you said - the joy of it. Most, even on the international circuit, know they can't really hope to win/place and don't have their countries' support anyway, so I guess it's the travel, the excitement and the love of skating/performing that gets us all those skaters for the winners to... well, win against. This is a tough, unforgiving and - let's be honest - rather corrupt and unfair sport. And few are going to be able to win enough medals/fame and glory/fans to make their country care about them, or get invitations to skate to a show audience afterwards.

I can't speak of Jimmy, I don't know his story well enough, but for Gracie, it seems trying to live up to and satisfy her country's expectations and demands almost destroyed her. She's given enough, thank you. Same with Yuna Kim (who recently confirmed she would NOT allow a child of hers to skate competitively). Yuzuru made it through, and is now living a dream most can't aspire to but it was really really rough from the moment he stepped on senior ice. And these last two were the most wildly successful and loved skaters we have had in yonks. It's hard.

And with Jason, a few years ago people - his 'country' and all - were slagging him off as a has-been because of the quad thing, and it's only been in the last year or so that it's been noted that quads do not much of an audience bring and he's been properly appreciated. So what if he is looking to building a pro following while winding down? The scope for performing - unless you are a big name Japanese or Russian - is increasingly limited after competitive retirement.

So let them skate for themselves, or their ungrateful and uninterested (unless you are Yuna, Yuzu or a little Russian girl) country, or to travel the world, or whatever reason they have.

 

[TallyT]

This is just my opinion, and an emotional reaction. Because - as you said - the joy of it. Most, even on the international circuit, know they can't really hope to win/place and don't have their countries' support anyway, so I guess it's the travel, the excitement and the love of skating/performing that gets us all those skaters for the winners to... well, win against. This is a tough, unforgiving and - let's be honest - rather corrupt and unfair sport. And few are going to be able to win enough medals/fame and glory/fans to make their country care about them, or get invitations to skate to a show audience afterwards.

I can't speak of Jimmy, I don't know his story well enough, but for Gracie, it seems trying to live up to and satisfy her country's expectations and demands almost destroyed her. She's given enough, thank you. Same with Yuna Kim (who recently confirmed she would NOT allow a child of hers to skate competitively). Yuzuru made it through, and is now living a dream most can't aspire to but it was really really rough from the moment he stepped on senior ice.

And with Jason, a few years ago people - his 'country' and all - were slagging him off as a has-been because of the quad thing, and it's only been in the last year or so that it's been noted that quads do not much of an audience bring and he's been properly appreciated. So what if he is looking to building a pro following while winding down? The scope for performing - unless you are a big name Japanese or Russian - is increasingly limited after competitive retirement.

So let them skate for themselves, or their ungrateful and uninterested (unless you are Yuna, Yuzu or a little Russian girl) country, or to travel the world, or whatever reason they have.

After that diatribe, back to the subject at issue - when do we know what little kiddies from small feds will be in the JGP series? Watching them is one of my feelgood indulgences.

 

[gleungc6]

After that diatribe, back to the subject at issue - when do we know what little kiddies from small feds will be in the JGP series? Watching them is one of my feelgood indulgences.

Each federation can release its selections as and when (eg we know the Swiss assignments https://www.swissiceskating.ch/_def...assignment-in-figure-skating-2023-24_com2.pdf) because the sending-federation makes the selection, not the host fed like the seniors. But we should know all feds by approx. one month before the start date! Some other countries are still doing internal competitions/assessments to decide. Eg the USA has just wrapped up the Junior Cup today which is one measure to determine who will get to go (but not the only measuring stick).

 

[TallyT]

Each federation can release its selections as and when (eg we know the Swiss assignments https://www.swissiceskating.ch/_def...assignment-in-figure-skating-2023-24_com2.pdf) because the sending-federation makes the selection, not the host fed like the seniors. But we should know all feds by approx. one month before the start date! Some other countries are still doing internal competitions/assessments to decide. Eg the USA has just wrapped up the Junior Cup today which is one measure to determine who will get to go (but not the only measuring stick).

Thank you! I will note my calendar.

 

[NanaPat]

Each federation can release its selections as and when (eg we know the Swiss assignments https://www.swissiceskating.ch/_def...assignment-in-figure-skating-2023-24_com2.pdf) because the sending-federation makes the selection, not the host fed like the seniors. But we should know all feds by approx. one month before the start date! Some other countries are still doing internal competitions/assessments to decide. Eg the USA has just wrapped up the Junior Cup today which is one measure to determine who will get to go (but not the only measuring stick).

Just to clarify, the assignments are made competition by competition. So entries for first comp are known about one month before first comp, etc. Feds can assign different skaters to comps in first part of season, then give second assignments later in the season to those who did well in their first competition.

 

[LadyB]

I'm so,so happy that Piper and Paul seem to carry on!

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

I'm so,so happy that Piper and Paul seem to carry on!

I don't know if you saw my post about a week ago in the old British & Irish thread, but they and Carol are in Sheffield for a coaching convention in a couple of weeks time. And Alexander Koenig is going to be there too, albeit on different days.

So, if you fancy taking yourself a trip up to Yorkshire...

CaroLiza_fan

 

[LadyB]

I don't know if you saw my post about a week ago in the old British & Irish thread, but they and Carol are in Sheffield for a coaching convention in a couple of weeks time. And Alexander Koenig is going to be there too, albeit on different days.

So, if you fancy taking yourself a trip up to Yorkshire...

CaroLiza_fan

I fancy a trip to Yorkshire anytime as I've got a good friend in Hull.

However, don't think there's much chance to see them. Thanks for the info.

 

[lariko]

After that diatribe, back to the subject at issue - when do we know what little kiddies from small feds will be in the JGP series? Watching them is one of my feelgood indulgences.

This sounds so disparaging. They are far from kiddies. They are extremely motivated, high achieving teens. To get into JGP, each of those teens had to go through years of training and selections on top of being in school, asking their family to invest a lot of resources, they have hopes and dreams and fight for those spots, small fed or not.

 

[TallyT]

This sounds so disparaging. They are far from kiddies. They are extremely motivated, high achieving teens. To get into JGP, each of those teens had to go through years of training and selections on top of being in school, asking their family to invest a lot of resources, they have hopes and dreams and fight for those spots, small fed or not.

I tend to fall for the littlest ones best, and please don't gatekeep other people's language from other cultures.

 

[gleungc6]

ISU document with lots of details

https://www.isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/event-documents/figure-skating-4/2023-24/grand-prix-4/series-files-58/31498-general-announcement-2/file

 

[noskates]

Not to beat a dead horse but rather to clarify my opinion about "skating for yourself!" I think if a federation or country is going to spend the money to support you and send you to an international competition than you should be skating for that country or that federation first and foremost. I have a great deal of respect for figure skaters and what they go through to compete - and if you want to keep competing for the joy of it or for your own personal satisfaction, then you shouldn't take a spot from another skater that's out there to represent their country and skate for a medal. And now I'm done.

 

[theblade]

Many people would agree with this sentiment, as it seems a fair thing to say. How that looks is where the debate comes in. Results should also be a factor, not just money. If they're not taking away from team results and there are no other competitive skaters, cool. But it's exactly the last point that is debatable. Not all skaters are consistent. Which makes assignments so touchy. "So-and-so is great; just having a bad day/week/month/season." And skaters that stay longer take up assignments that younger skaters don't get to build on; so some younger promising talents quit prematurely. Lookin' at you, ice dance.

 

[lariko]

I think it’s very hard to take a spot from someone who is obviously way more promising (or at least for long). The debates are usually when there is a certain degree of equivalency. In ice dance more seasoned competitors seem to have serious advantages over the younger teams; it's fairily obvious in live competitions, though the finer points of ID scoring are the most obscure thing in FS. That's said, recreational skating is out there for any competitor who doesn't want to compete and social media helps with remaining in spotlight. Personally, I have no problems waving a fond farewell and switching my attention to the young and daring challengers.

 

[el henry]

I think that skaters who are saying they are "skating for themselves" may be using a psychological term to, in essence, psych themselves up. They probably do care about winning medals, and I can't imagine they don't care about representing their country. But of course I am not in their head and do not know. If they truly don't care, that is difficult to hear. But it is up to the young guns to come and take their spot. No one is owed a spot because they are young and no one is owed a spot because they are old.

In the discipline I follow most, Jason Brown, for example, does not earn higher scores because he is "old", or because he is popular with judges (hahahahaha if only) but because he puts out exciting, new, different skates and those skates are earning higher scores.

When and if a younger skater outscores him (and of course many have and do), then that skater will have earned a spot at Worlds, or the GP should he choose to compete, or whatever. But not until then.

Ice Dance scoring is a black art that I do not pretend to completely understand. I don't follow the other disciplines enough to know.

ETA: and back to the subject at hand, the Fed puts skaters on their international selection list, they are ranked internationally, and the GP hosts select. Those skaters seem selected pretty much according to scores and history, at least for the US fed.

 

[theblade]

Re: ice dance, seasoned competitors versus younger teams. I'm talking about teams that prematurely retired because there wasn't enough money/time/what-have-you to keep skating in 4th-7th place nationally in nations with strong teams, while waiting to top teams to retire. It's the Pogrebinski/Benoit (US) of it all.

 

[Magill]

I don't really get the point of attempting to judge and censor any skater's motivations to skate. Honestly, I think in the end of the day, no matter what they say in public, they all do it mostly for themselves - while obviously representing their country if they happen to compete on the international level. And actually I hope that's what they do, that they skate because they love and enjoy it or because it brings them closer to achieving their personal goals, however defined, and not for the sake of any imaginary obligations towards their countries, families, fans or whoever else's expectations they are expected to meet (maybe, in certain circumstances, with the exception of their skating partner in case of pairs/ID, but this is the matter of loyalty on a purely human level which is a different case). But whatever keeps them going is ok as far as they are happy with it.
In the end of the day, if they medal, they do it for themselves as much as for their country. If they take a bad loss, they are mostly left alone with it and their country leaves them to themselves, while looking for a substitute if they have one. If a "country" wants to be represented by them it is mostly because of their skills translating to their podium / placement chances and not because of their patriotic motivation or the lack of it (or, at least, this is the way it is supposed to be).
As for the feds, for all I know, most of them (especially the big ones) are pretty unlovable entities so I hope everyone skates more for themselves than for their fed.
I also understand this kind of proclamation ("I skate for myself now") usually comes from those tired of meeting never-ending expectations of others, including feds, fans and ISU itself.

 

[MiraiFan]

Totally agree about Bradie. She was never one of my favorites until this year. I think the move to France and a new coaching team has been wonderful for her. I feel like she's finally connecting with the audience and doesn't come off as the ice queen as she has in the past for me.

And her SP costume was just beautiful--the European look is working for her.

 

[TallyT]

Not to beat a dead horse but rather to clarify my opinion about "skating for yourself!" I think if a federation or country is going to spend the money to support you and send you to an international competition than you should be skating for that country or that federation first and foremost. I have a great deal of respect for figure skaters and what they go through to compete - and if you want to keep competing for the joy of it or for your own personal satisfaction, then you shouldn't take a spot from another skater that's out there to represent their country and skate for a medal. And now I'm done.

Not one of the feds - not one national organisation in ANY sport - is doing it out of the kindness of their hearts, we see quite clearly all the time how little they really care about the well-being of their representatives. And they are not 'taking a spot' from anyone; they are earning it fair and square by being better and more likely to place than the 'another skater that's out their to represent their country etc' but simply doesn't score as highly (or isn't a fed favourite or politically blessed but that's a different can of fishkettle worms).

Damn it, I didn't know I felt this strongly about it, but these young people should be able to unashamedly put themselves first because no one else - not country, not fed, not ISU, not sponsors, and no, for nearly all of them not the fans - is going to. And neither TPTB nor the audiences nor the country at large give a damn why some sports person is doing well enough to medal, as long as the said medals are achieved. Witness the huge number of athletes who were pretty much dumped the minute they stopped shedding lustre on their armchair or rinkside enthusiasts by not doing well enough any more. Some of the stories of ex-'sporting heroes' afterlives are sad, shocking and miserable.

People's motives are their own. If the ones who admit they are skating mainly for themselves or are looking to build a future after their country has had its fill of them are actually doing better, placing higher, and/or bringing more attention to our little-and-getting-littler sport then as long as TPTB and we get the right soundbytes and flag-waving pictures at the right moments then we have no real right to cavil.

 

[rabidline]

I think a skater can be skating "for themselves" and still be responsible for the spot they have gained and the country they represent. It's not a zero sum situation. If anything skaters who skate for themselves may be healthier mentally and physically, which may lead to positive impact for their performance and consistency, and in that case, the skater and the federation and the country all benefit from it. It's something similar to "you have to take care of yourself first so you can take care of other people". And it helps the federation and the country too when the skaters are in good health physically and mentally.

A lot of my faves definitely start doing better when they stop doing what they are expected to as top skaters of a certain country and start focusing on themselves and what works best for themselves, leading to better results for themselves first, and then their federation and their countries.