Just watched Hanyu's FS from the Rostelecom Cup and was wondering about his GOE scores for the Quad Lutz and Quad Salchow. He had a little trouble on the landing of these jumps. Why was he rewarded a +1 to +3 on the Lutz when the landing was low and not controlled? And on the Salchow some judges didn't give him a negative on the GOE when his landing looked like the beginning of a sit spin? Clearly there was a flaw on these jumps and if it was a different skater,these landings would definitely get a negative GOE. Dont get me wrong, I love Yuzuru as a skater, just wondering why GOE's don't effect the top skaters?
Hanyu's GOE on quads
- Thread starter fredtx121
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The landing was low but it was pretty well controlled.
There is a GOE reduction of -1 to -2 for "Weak landing (bad pos./wrong edge/scratching etc)"
How bad does a position have to be to take that reduction? Probably most judges care more about problems with the blade on the ice than with the body position.
Which positive bullet points could that lutz deserve?
Possibly
2) Clear, recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element (not much, nothing difficult, but that's only required for the SP solo jump)
4) Good height and distance (this was excellent, not just "good")
5) Good flow from entry to exit
7) Effortless throughout
8) Element matched to musical structure
If a judge really thought that the element qualified on all five of those points and chose to round up because of the exceptional height and distance, they could justify +3 for that jump, and they might not feel that any weak landing reduction was necessary.
+1 or possibly +2 as the final GOE seems more appropriate to me. But there was more good than bad about that jump.
If a lower level skater did a triple or double lutz that qualified for none of the positive bullet points and that had a low/awkward position on the landing with some flow out, regaining control and extension on the landing edge before taking the next step, would we expect a 0 GOE? If there were actual errors with the edges, or "poor" speed, height, distance, then we'd expect minuses.
Again, there is no GOE reduction on the current chart for turns on one foot out of the landing. There is a reductionfor "2 three turns in between (jump combo)" but that doesn't apply for a solo jump. And there's no "step out of the landing" because he stayed on the same foot during those turns. But the bad position part of "the weak landing" reduction could apply.
IIRC there used to be a reduction of -1 for -2 for double threes on the landing of a solo jump. If so, some judges might remember that and reduce accordingly.
I think judges probably would apply some reduction for that landing problem. They would subtract -1 or -2 from whatever GOE they would have given without the reduction. So again, which positive bullet points could judges have awarded before taking reductions.At
I think it at least deserves credit for good height and distance and matching the music. +1 for those qualities and -1 for the turns would end up at 0 GOE.
If it were a different skater with smaller, slower jumps and less flow on the edges, then it would deserve negative GOE.
If a different skater can maintain the same level of flow and seamlessness and jump just as high and far, then that other skater could earn 0 or positive GOE as well.
It's not about the who, but the what.
What makes top skaters top skaters is that they bring many good qualities to their elements, often even to those with some flaws.
And for their best elements without flaws, we often see lots of +2 and +3 GOEs, which lesser skaters are less likely to be able to achieve.
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