Has CoP Destroyed Asada?

[Tango_D_R]

^ figurefan11

Dude.. at least should've tried wrapping it up with some sense or correct facts.
This is just too easy..

But I thank you, this thread will turn out to be so much fun to watch.. yay.. arty:

 

[antmanb]

whole post

here we go again - we knew it would start all over again for the Olympic cycle.

Of course Yuna 'lips but Mao doesn't Flutz

I also take it you've never heard of Yukari Nakano either?

*updates ignore list*

Ant

 

[prettykeys]

Yu-Na better than Mao in jump?? Never true.

But they suspiciously started to give Mao '!' and even 'e' from some point, when Yuna came to senior level. I'm not suggesting anything but isn't the timing *too* perfect?

Sure, you're "not suggesting anything"...

Yuna can't even do it. She crashed it everytime she tried. Not much of an argument in 3Lo.

Wrong! Although Mao's 3Loop is better/more consistent.

There is no way that Yuna is better than Mao in jump.
And JOANNIE better than Mao?? OH PLEASE.. that is just ridiculous.
The problem Mao started to struggle is because under this crappy COP, corrupted judges are clearly favoring *certain* players.(I'm not gonna say who )

Oh by the way, I'm not a crazy Mao fan, I like yuna and Joannie too, just my honest opinion about comparison.

I think you need your brain checked, if you don't expect people to see that your bias is bursting out at its seams. :agree:

I LOVE when people feign or claim to be unbiased while displaying bias blatantly.

 

[SXTN]

to my mind , mao's struggles are a result of her inconsistent training and coaching situation in the past years... she moves from place A to B, trains under coach A , then alone then under coach B and so on... coach A tells her not to correct her lutz, coach B tells her to do so...
in addition she has been playing around with her jump layout for years... for fans it's more exciting of course because you never knew what jumps she would include in the following season but for herself it was kind of destructive because her body and mind couldn't get into it due to all the changes...

yuna kim has been practicing with orser for years now... they are a team and they know what they are doing... jumpwise yuna's programs have always been less spectacular because she has always performed the same difficulties.. but that strategy is finally paying off because she can probably do all her tricks with closed eyes... in addition, they didn't concentrate on upgrading her difficulty but more on improving the technique on jumps she is already familiar with... just look at her recent GOE: +2 for 3Lz-3T and at least +1 for every other jump element which is landed cleanly.... of course this is boosting her confidence which influences her PCS in a positive way....

mao has lost her game.. her advantage over yuna were more difficult programs whereas yuna had better technique ( better GOE)... so both were equal in this sense...
pointwise the program mao does now is the easiest one she has been doing for years.... even with two 3A...in addition she doesn't attempt the 3Lz and the 3S or any 3-3 combinations... her 3-2(-2) are often underrotated too...
i really wish but i don't think she will suprise us at the olympics... her issues seem to big... i don't even think she will make the podium...

 

[figurefan11]

Fair enough, and glad you knew I was kidding.
I think seeing Mao this season speaks for itself. Her jumps have become a major problem. I would be surprised to see her win a medal in Vancouver and certainly don't see her coming close to Yuna's scores anytime soon.

Your comments about the difficult 3A's reminds me of the Pairs competition from SLC.
A program is only more difficult - if it is executed cleanly. Making mistakes doesn't prove a program or jump is harder - it only proves the skater can't execute the them properly under pressure. :yes:

Why do you assume I knew you were kidding?
That was more like a sarcasm you were projecting and I laughed at you back, did you not sense the tone?

Judging by your english, I'm pretty sure you're not native.. I wonder if... never mind.
And what's with this 'a program is only more difficult when executed right' crap? Duh?? it's like saying 'the scores will be good if you skate well' Do you think I'm mentally challenged?

^ figurefan11

Dude.. at least should've tried wrapping it up with some sense or correct facts.
This is just too easy..

But I thank you, this thread will turn out to be so much fun to watch.. yay.. arty:

Exactly what part didn't make sense to you? or used the wrong facts?
For me, you're the one who doesn't make sense right now.

 

[prettykeys]

Do you think I'm mentally challenged?

I definitely have that impression.

 

[janetfan]

Do you think I'm mentally challenged?

.

Now that you mention it, yes, the thought has crossed my mind.

 

[figurefan11]

I definitely have that impression.

Now that you mention it, yes, the thought has crossed my mind.

Wow.. what a witty answer.. haha..funny

 

[Tango_D_R]

Exactly what part didn't make sense to you? or used the wrong facts?
For me, you're the one who doesn't make sense right now.

OK, chill..
I won't try to correct your post, because it's absolutely NOT necessary

 

[gourry]

First, Mao has great triple flip and combination while Yu-Na does cheating jump on flip, you can know this because she gets wrong edges and ! marks for years.

FYI, Yuna had any kind of edge call only last season. If that is 'for years', then Mao getting edge calls for two seasons is what, 'decades'??

The reason that she isn't doing 3F combination this season is because simply she don't needs to, but she can do them perfect anytime she wants if she wants to. So 3F Mao better.

?? You gotta be kidding me, right? In what universe that happened?? You must have left skating world for last two seasons. By the way, did you even notice nowadays a lot of commentators called her flip lutz? Does it mean she is lipper? Or does it mean her flip is actually flutz? If they don't show the step before her jump, can you tell me what jump she is doing? Are you sure it is gonna be the one she wrote on her paper?

Second, Triple Axel. Mao is the only lady who can do the 3A in the whole world. Her 3A is even better than some men.

Hello~? Have you ever heard of Yukari?? Her 3A is maybe better than Evan's but seriously?? Better than some men?? Do you even watch men's competition? What is your list? I really want to see it.

Some say she is flutzing but she is not. It may look like that way because she use mohawk turn when taking off and is so fast and the camera angles can do the trick, but she definitely use outside edge just before take-off same as Yuna and little deeper than Joannie if you look closer.

What are you seeing?? Is there another Mao in skating world? ....Or maybe just in YOUR world. Mao's lutz is better than Joannie's??

Triple Toe. I think it would be fair to give a tie. I prefer Mao's toe jumps better but they're both doing it well, so draw.

Ahh. How generous and fair you are. Right, doing a jump as a second jump of combination is so easy, right?

Triple Salchow. I remeber Mao landing beautiful 3 Salchows in competitions while Yuna fails a lot of her 3S just like at 09 worlds. I heard somewhere that she tends to fail a lot of her 3S in practice too. So I would say Mao better in salchow overall but I'll just give it a tie.(Because I don't wanna get stomped by those crazy Korean fans )

Yuna made 2 mistakes on 3S and now it is a lot. Again, how impartial you are!! Seriously, how many 3S Mao's done for her entire senior career? She did so many, right? .........Wait a minute, she did TWO!!! How many did she do so far this season? .......NONE!! How glaring! Yuna included that jump in every senior competition and made just 2 mistakes, and now they are even!!!! OKAY, Yuna tried loop 4 times and succeded 2 times(exactly same as Mao's Salchow success rate) so by your logic, they TIE!!! How great!!!

There is no way that Yuna is better than Mao in jump. And JOANNIE better than Mao?? OH PLEASE.. that is just ridiculous.
The problem Mao started to struggle is because under this crappy COP, corrupted judges are clearly favoring *certain* players.(I'm not gonna say who )

Yes, Way.
FYI, Joannie is second highest GOE getter on jumps in ladies field. (and the highest GOE getter is not Mao, by the way.) She rarely gets downgrades. Before you just despise other skaters so blatantly, check the facts at least. If only you get out of your delusional little world, you will see many evidences. But then again, why would you? You will just stay there and blame everything but Mao. Wrong judges, wrong judging system, Korean federation is most powerful and controlling everything, Canadian federation too, they are changing rules to destroy Mao, everything is out there to get Mao.

Oh by the way, I'm not a crazy Mao fan, I like yuna and Joannie too, just my honest opinion about comparison.

Oh, Yes you are~. You are the picture of a crazy Mao fan if you didn't notice yet.

By the way, do you feel better when you believe everyone who says something nice about Yuna is Korean?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

How upbeat do you think Mao can be with such tight UR and edge calls?
She may continue to struggle for a year or two until she can fix some technical problems.

We may not like Mao's music but it is her scores that are killing her going back to Worlds. She is not a very good CoP skater right now.
She is OK, but seems to have fallen into the middle of the pack.

It's not the dress, and it's not the music, it's not the choreo, it's only one thing that is hurting Mao.

It is the reason she is doing three 3A's. She can't do an acceptable lutz and all of her 3x3's are getting downgraded. Even a few of her double jumps have gotten dinged.

Upbeat as far as that routine she did in 2007 Worlds. Have you listened to that present concerto. Hard to believe Rach composed it. It's definitely a downer, and I believe Mao is not reacting to the funerial nature of that msic, and I think it hampers her skating both in Tech and Performance.

I'm not talking about the outcome of the competitions. Just suggesting that for next season she go back to upbeat music.

 

[Medusa]

Have you listened to that present concerto. Hard to believe Rach composed it. It's definitely a downer, and I believe Mao is not reacting to the funerial nature of that msic, and I think it hampers her skating both in Tech and Performance.

It's not a concerto, it's a Piano Solo piece!!!! Tarasova must have found the most horrific orchestral version someone made of this brilliant composition for solo piano. It's not Serjoscha's fault, seriously people!

It's like, think of some of the Scherzi Chopin wrote for piano, how that would sound for orchestra? Not much better than Asada's LP music. Some pieces of music are better left alone.

 

[janetfan]

It's not a concerto, it's a Piano Solo piece!!!! Tarasova must have found the most horrific orchestral version someone made of this brilliant composition for solo piano. It's not Serjoscha's fault, seriously people!

It's like, think of some of the Scherzi Chopin wrote for piano, how that would sound for orchestra? Not much better than Asada's LP music. Some pieces of music are better left alone.

Thanks for reminding us again that "Bells" is not a concerto. "Bells" is not even it's real name, just something we "colonials" came up with.
That and insisting to refer to it as a "concerto."

Seriously though, I believe I read an article that said Tat actually comissioned this orchestration for Mao - and using so much brass and eliminating the piano greatly changes the character of the music.

This very dark version of "Bells" that Mao is skating to this season does not feel like a good vehicle for a single skater. Maybe it would be more effective for a Dance team.

 

[gkelly]

This very dark version of "Bells" that Mao is skating to this season does not feel like a good vehicle for a single skater. Maybe it would be more effective for a Dance team.

Or for one section of a long program that also included sections that relate to it in some way, preferably both aurally and conceptually, but provide variation with different textures and melodic lines.

 

[janetfan]

Or for one section of a long program that also included sections that relate to it in some way, preferably both aurally and conceptually, but provide variation with different textures and melodic lines.

Actually, if Tat would have used the original version with some of the version she commisioned - what you suggest could have been achieved and would have undoubtably been better for Mao.

Wasn't this the phantom LP music that Michelle had planned to use in "06?
I wonder if Michelle had planned to use the original, or something that was lightly orchestrated?

 

[katakwan]

Yu-Na better than Mao in jump?? Never true.

First, Mao has great triple flip and combination while Yu-Na does cheating jump on flip, you can know this because she gets wrong edges and ! marks for years. Mao is not doing triple flip combination this season because she can do more superior 3A even in short and two of them in long. The reason that she isn't doing 3F combination this season is because simply she don't needs to, but she can do them perfect anytime she wants if she wants to. So 3F Mao better. (Mao 1:0 Yuna)

Second, Triple Axel. Mao is the only lady who can do the 3A in the whole world while Yu-Na can't even try it. 3A is the most superior jump of all in ladies. Her 3A is even better than some men. I think everyone know that Mao has best axel in the world. So 3A vs 2A Mao definitely win. (Mao 2:0 Yuna)

Third, Triple Lutz. Mao is not doing 3Lz because she is getting unfair(in my view) judging in CoP. Some say she is flutzing but she is not. It may look like that way because she use mohawk turn when taking off and is so fast and the camera angles can do the trick, but she definitely use outside edge just before take-off same as Yuna and little deeper than Joannie if you look closer. But they suspiciously started to give Mao '!' and even 'e' from some point, when Yuna came to senior level. I'm not suggesting anything but isn't the timing *too* perfect? Anyway Yuna has been doing 3Lz in competition(a little overscored GEO and looks little bit UR for me IMHO) and Mao hasn't been doing it, so it's impossible to compare or say Yuna's 3Lz is better than Mao now, until she does it again. So I think tie would be fair. (Mao 3:1 Yuna)

Fourth, Triple Loop. Do I have to even bother explaining this? Mao's triple loop is one of the best no doubt. Yuna can't even do it. She crashed it everytime she tried. Not much of an argument in 3Lo. No doubt Mao better. (Mao 4:1 Yuna)

Fifth, Triple Toe. I think it would be fair to give a tie. I prefer Mao's toe jumps better but they're both doing it well, so draw. (Mao 5:2 Yuna)

Sixth, Triple Salchow. I remeber Mao landing beautiful 3 Salchows in competitions while Yuna fails a lot of her 3S just like at 09 worlds. I heard somewhere that she tends to fail a lot of her 3S in practice too. So I would say Mao better in salchow overall but I'll just give it a tie.(Because I don't wanna get stomped by those crazy Korean fans ) ( Mao 6:3 Yuna )


There is no way that Yuna is better than Mao in jump.
And JOANNIE better than Mao?? OH PLEASE.. that is just ridiculous.
The problem Mao started to struggle is because under this crappy COP, corrupted judges are clearly favoring *certain* players.(I'm not gonna say who )

Oh by the way, I'm not a crazy Mao fan, I like yuna and Joannie too, just my honest opinion about comparison.

When I was reading your writing, I was very angry,
because I would like to see again a beautiful butterfly in a calm fresh-water lake.

As long as there are many fans just like you,
Mao will never know who she is, where she is, what weak-points she has.

Fans just like you have made her a state of collapse,
will eventually destoy completely Mao Asada you love so much.

 

[Olympia]

The truly frustrating thing about this orchestration of the Rachmaninoff prelude (besides the overuse of percussion, that is) is that Tarasova used just one section of it. The original piece has an A tune (this dirgelike section), a B tune (a fast, urgent melody, also in minor key, that builds and rises in pitch), and then the A tune again. The A tune by itself is monotonous and almost claustrophobic, because you feel as if you're trapped in this recurring tune and can't get out. The B section gives the piece definition and almost a narrative flow. Besides, it's tailor-made for footwork! Why on earth would anyone leave out the B section? Was the orchestra unable to master the speed of it?

Katakwan, I feel your pain. Mao is an exquisite skater, and she's being almost trampled by circumstances. I hope she recovers in time for the Olympics, but if not, I hope she hangs around for the next Olympic cycle. Whatever it is that she's got, you don't find growing on any old tree.

 

[Mathman]

Since the subject came up, what exactly is a "prelude?" What is this piece a prelude to?

 

[janetfan]

Since the subject came up, what exactly is a "prelude?" What is this piece a prelude to?

The answer can be found only by listening to the Gershwin piano preludes.

Forget the Chopin Preludes and throw away Debussy's preludes. They reveal nothing

Next you must be patient as you will have to read "The Lost Symbol" by Dan Brown - but skipping every third page - and then going back and reading those pages after you have finished but in reverse order.

Only when you pass the last and most difficult test - solving a Rubik's cube while blindfolded - will you have earned the right to understanding one of music's most closely guarded secrets.

ETA: the meaning of "prelude" has changed from era to era. Easy to find with a quick search.
It can be a short piece of music followed by a longer piece. In the Romantic era Preludes often stood alone.

At times a Prelude can be used like an Overture to an Opera or musical, but is typically shorter.

 

[Medusa]

Since the subject came up, what exactly is a "prelude?" What is this piece a prelude to?

I think it started out as preludes in the literary sense during the Baroque era, where they often had an introductory function to larger pieces of music, but later (Romantic era) could also be stand-alone pieces.