Has Sotnikova finally learned how to control her nerves?

[silverlake22]

Adelina has unstable technique and she also doesn't seem to have the confidence of some of the other girls. Before she skates it sometimes looks like she's almost, like, hyperventilating, very nervous. Compare that to someone like Lipnitskaya or Pogorilaya who both have huge confidence, and it's not surprising Sotnikova falls so much while the other two almost always stay on their feet even when things look off in the air. Adelina does not always seem to believe herself going into the jumps, and as a result she is cautious on the takeoff and they don't work. This needs to stop happening for her to regain consistency. Last season I do believe some issues were due to puberty and growth changes, but I don't think she's grown any taller or put on any significant amount of weight this season compared to last so her inconsistency I think is definitely due to technique and lack of confidence/focus. Idk to me she seems a bit spacey, like she doesn't know why the mistakes happen, not having that killer instinct to totally nail a program like some others do.

 

[mskater93]

Adelina has reached the age of self-awareness. Pogorilya and Lipnitskaia currently aren't quite at that same stage. Remember how tough she was when she won everything on the Junior circuit? When puberty hit, that changed - that's what I mean by the age of self-awareness.

 

[Mrs. P]

Adelina has reached the age of self-awareness. Pogorilya and Lipnitskaia currently aren't quite at that same stage. Remember how tough she was when she won everything on the Junior circuit? When puberty hit, that changed - that's what I mean by the age of self-awareness.

I totally agree. Early in the season, I felt a lot of Adelina's issues were about being confident being in her body. Sure she is happy in photos, but there's something about asking your body to do things when you haven't quite figured yourself out yet.

I remember being 16 years old. It sucked. I had self-doubt about EVERYTHING.

Gracie Gold was 16 in 2011. Not only did she go through a growth spurt, she also had a lot of self-doubt too, IIRC.

And I really think Lipnitskaia is starting to enter that stage now....

 

[Jammers]

It's easy to be the upstart Junior who's winning everything in sight but things change when your a Senior and the pressure is on you to keep winning.

 

[chuckm]

In her first season on the GP, 2011-2012, Sotnikova won two bronze medals and did not make it to the GPF. Tuktamysheva won two golds that season and finished 4th at the GPF. In their second GPF season, Tuk had a second place and a 4th place, then finished 5th at the GPF; Sot had a bronze medal and a 5th, hence no GPF again. But both Russian ladies were attacked by the puberty bug---first Adelina, then Liza. It remains to be seen if either will ever regain the success they had as juniors.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

In her first season on the GP, 2011-2012, Sotnikova won two bronze medals and did not make it to the GPF. Tuktamysheva won two golds that season and finished 4th at the GPF. In their second GPF season, Tuk had a second place and a 4th place, then finished 5th at the GPF; Sot had a bronze medal and a 5th, hence no GPF again. But both Russian ladies were attacked by the puberty bug---first Adelina, then Liza. It remains to be seen if either will ever regain the success they had as juniors.

Perhaps not the consistency, but maybe the success were they able to become artistically improved. I'd picture it more in Adelina than Tuktamysheva (hate to say it, but Mishin's skating and PCS are like oil and water).

 

[vegarin]

I hope they can. I think the skating world as a whole (but particularly Russia, it seems) has an unreasonable expectation that great juniors can immediately make instant senior contenders. Maybe we were all spoiled by Mao and Yuna -- they certainly got onto the podium quickly right after graduating to seniors, but they are exceptions, not norms.

I felt the hype around Osmond after the SP was just as unreasonable, if not more so than what was expected of Sot and Tuk. At least the two had some experience and very solid junior records for themselves. Osmond is still what, sixteen? And this was her first time at Worlds. And just because she pulled out one solid SP, it doesn't make her an instant medal contender when she hasn't been a total standout during the GPF season. Yuna and Mao won golds and silvers during their first GPF season before their senior Worlds, and their scores were already better than most of the seasoned seniors.

 

[chuckm]

Osmond is 17. And she had only one GP event, Skate Canada, which she won. It was that win which caused the hype. Unfortunately, it was another 4 months until Kaetlyn skated again internationally, at 4CC. By then, fans were clamoring for a medal if not a win, and that put too much of a burden on Kaetlyn: she was 7th, behind Gao, Li and Gold. The hype died down some after 4CC, and focus was on Kaetlyn finishing top 10 (which she did).

 

[gmyers]

I hope they can. I think the skating world as a whole (but particularly Russia, it seems) has an unreasonable expectation that great juniors can immediately make instant senior contenders. Maybe we were all spoiled by Mao and Yuna -- they certainly got onto the podium quickly right after graduating to seniors, but they are exceptions, not norms.

I felt the hype around Osmond after the SP was just as unreasonable, if not more so than what was expected of Sot and Tuk. At least the two had some experience and very solid junior records for themselves. Osmond is still what, sixteen? And this was her first time at Worlds. And just because she pulled out one solid SP, it doesn't make her an instant medal contender when she hasn't been a total standout during the GPF season. Yuna and Mao won golds and silvers during their first GPF season before their senior Worlds, and their scores were already better than most of the seasoned seniors.

But it wasn't an unreasonable expectation that Tuktamisheva have a spin and jump count in the SP! No axel counted and no spin counted. It wasn't unreasonable to expect elements to be done! LOL! That is a totally reasonable expectation to have! They skated so below any expectation that their performances questioned there validity as representatives of Russia in senior competitions! No one would have placed expectations so low!

 

[ForeverFish]

Adelina doesn't have Gracie's jumps. And when I said she did a decent job, I was referring to the topic's title. Ur'd jumps are not because of nerves but because of bad technique. Even if she flutzed and Ured 2 combos in the LP she went for everything and landed everything besides the first 3F. Compared to last season when she bombed almost every LP she skated, there is a huge progress in her mental strength. She does not succumb to pressure any more. She isn't making Gracie's progress, but that does not mean she is not getting better. I agree with FlattFan that her team must start playing to her strength and plan her layout smarter. Until she starts fixing her jumps she could maximize the points with what she can do. First she should get better programs and then replace one of her 3F with a 3L. And replace the 2A-3T with maybe a 3T-2A sequence. She looses some points in base value but can make it up with positive GOE. Spins, steps and spirals are very very good with excellent scoring potential. A clean LP from her even with a lowered content can get her easily 125+ points. Kanako did it and she was not clean (at Worlds).
I found it silly that sometimes she landed the first 3F in the LP as a solo jump and didn't do a 3 jump combo there. And then she fell on the next 3F missing huge points there for not doing a combo (like she did in London). I could understand the strategy if her second 3F would be in the second half of the program but since it wasn't, it made no sense. You landed the problematic jump well, add the 2T-2L just in case the second one won't work. Her team made fundamental errors with Adelina this season. She should have went for the 3 jump combo with the first flip. If she fell, try to do the combo with the next one.

Well, first of all, Kanako scored just over 123 at Worlds. She didn't fall, but it was the UR's that brought her down--which, incidentally, is a problem that Adelina is also facing.

Remember SA, when Adelina got penalized for throwing in another triple combination after she missed her first one? At the level she's currently on, psychologically and technically, she isn't ready to improvise her jumps. That's something that we rarely see even from Mao, Carolina, or Yuna. Adelina needs to have a solidly mapped program and stick to it, regardless of errors. She, like most of the younger girls, gets spooked after one mistake and usually tends to make another. Trying and failing at multiple difficult combinations does not impress the judges.

She is still struggling with the aftereffects of puberty. So is Tukt. Lipnitskaia now seems to have entered the phase as well, and it won't be long before we see how she's holding up. But bad jumping technique, if it sticks, is damn near impossible to correct. Adelina needs to fix her jumping issues NOW.

 

[gmyers]

Unfortunately she's probably going to spend a lot of time learning new programs so she has to learn probably two new programs and well as trying to fix the flutz and underrotating of tirple toes and her flip issues if they are technique related. Also it's probably more likely that her jumps will get worse and not better if she doesn't spend a lot of time fixing them and relearning them this season. She has to relearn all the jumps like Toe and flip and lutz while learning new programs. So that's a lot to do! She can have a next season of << and maybe be like Caroline Zhang in 2010 or Mao Asada in 2011

 

[Mrs. P]

Just a thought, Michelle was 16/17 and clearly in that "age of awareness" in 1997 and 1998. She basically got beat by someone who was younger and perhaps was not at that same period.

It's actually more of a testament to Michelle that she managed to hold it together through some big changes/puberty to win another National Championship in 1998 and do a very respectable performance at the Olympics.

If you put that in perspective. Julia L. and the other Russian babies are sort of like Tara Lipinski while Adelina and Liza are like Michelle during that 1996-1997 period. So I guess the good news is that Michelle did move on to win several more World and National titles and I certainly think it would be possible that Adelina and Liza could emerge from this as well.

 

[silverlake22]

Adelina has reached the age of self-awareness. Pogorilya and Lipnitskaia currently aren't quite at that same stage. Remember how tough she was when she won everything on the Junior circuit? When puberty hit, that changed - that's what I mean by the age of self-awareness.

True, but I do think confidence and a killer instinct is something some people have naturally while others do not. Puberty does change one's mindset but I still think some of it is inherent to one's personality. Adelina was falling all over the place the season before she tore up the JGP too, and that was back when she was a tiny 13-year-old waif. Sure, she won all the junior events in 2010-2011 season, but even then she seemed to be very nervous and reserved, eager to please. Tuk seems to have more natural confidence and I think that has helped her deal with puberty and expectations better than Adelina so far.

You see this in a lot of skaters. For example, Caroline Zhang, she always seemed very self-conscious and not very confident even when she was a cute little 13 year old before any of her problems or puberty started. There's an interview with Mirai when they were juniors at Nats and Caroline blinks a lot, doesn't look in the face of the camera, and her responses sound like she's trying hard to say the right thing whereas Mirai just has no filter and seems much more genuine in her responses. Rachael Flatt with all her limitations seemed to have good confidence and a strong mindset for competition. Czisny has never seemed very self confident and thus it is not surprising to see her crumble. There are more examples. Adelina though I've never gotten a really confident, killer drive instinct from though, and even though growing up might alter it a bit, I have seen glimpses of it in Tuk and a whole lot of it in Lipnitskaya, as well as some of the other girls coming up like Pogorilaya and Sahnovich. Not sure about Radionova because she seems very sweet-natured and more emotional. Puberty may have hurt Sotnikova's confidence more but I don't think she had a lot of it naturally to begin with, especially not for being the prodigy she was as a little kid.

 

[FlattFan]

Tuk seems to have more natural confidence and I think that has helped her deal with puberty and expectations better than Adelina so far.

When the pressure is on, Liza can trust her technique to get her through the program. She knows she can land the jumps, even with all that extra weight. Adelina can't. She's more like Cohen, jumps first, then prays for a good landing. In that regard, Liza has some extra confidence over Adelina.

 

[Jammers]

True, but I do think confidence and a killer instinct is something some people have naturally while others do not. Puberty does change one's mindset but I still think some of it is inherent to one's personality. Adelina was falling all over the place the season before she tore up the JGP too, and that was back when she was a tiny 13-year-old waif. Sure, she won all the junior events in 2010-2011 season, but even then she seemed to be very nervous and reserved, eager to please. Tuk seems to have more natural confidence and I think that has helped her deal with puberty and expectations better than Adelina so far.

You see this in a lot of skaters. For example, Caroline Zhang, she always seemed very self-conscious and not very confident even when she was a cute little 13 year old before any of her problems or puberty started. There's an interview with Mirai when they were juniors at Nats and Caroline blinks a lot, doesn't look in the face of the camera, and her responses sound like she's trying hard to say the right thing whereas Mirai just has no filter and seems much more genuine in her responses. Rachael Flatt with all her limitations seemed to have good confidence and a strong mindset for competition. Czisny has never seemed very self confident and thus it is not surprising to see her crumble. There are more examples. Adelina though I've never gotten a really confident, killer drive instinct from though, and even though growing up might alter it a bit, I have seen glimpses of it in Tuk and a whole lot of it in Lipnitskaya, as well as some of the other girls coming up like Pogorilaya and Sahnovich. Not sure about Radionova because she seems very sweet-natured and more emotional. Puberty may have hurt Sotnikova's confidence more but I don't think she had a lot of it naturally to begin with, especially not for being the prodigy she was as a little kid.

I don't think Mirai is one to hold up as having a lot of confidence either. If anything Caroline has been a better competitor over the years then Mira has been but maybe not as much talent.

 

[mskater93]

Caroline's problem isn't an issue of talent but rather self-coaching at a very important developmental stage (when she was gaining control of upper level doubles and early triples).

I just say let's see how Lipnitskaia and Pogorilya start handling "self-awareness" before we proclaim them to be better competitors than Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva...It's one thing to be the Junior phenom but when the Bambi stage hits, ugh.

 

[AlexRus]

When the pressure is on, Liza can trust her technique to get her through the program. She knows she can land the jumps, even with all that extra weight. Adelina can't. She's more like Cohen, jumps first, then prays for a good landing. In that regard, Liza has some extra confidence over Adelina.

Some statistics about jumping performance - score for jumping elements in Free Skate.
Adelina - Euro 41.13, Worlds 36.41, WTT 37.42.
Liza - Euro 51.60, Worlds 46.94, WTT 34.62.
Gracie - 4CC 32.17, Worlds 46.14, WTT 46.51.

And for comparison Juniors - Radionova 50.10 at JGP III (Liza had more at Euro), Pogorilaya 47.16 at JGP VII. Both had some lower jumping score at other Internationals.

We see that Liza and Gracie are much better jumpers than Adelina. Unbelievable (Adelina was excellent jumper at season 2010/2011), but fact.

 

[silverlake22]

I don't think Mirai is one to hold up as having a lot of confidence either. If anything Caroline has been a better competitor over the years then Mira has been but maybe not as much talent.

Mirai's confidence has definitely suffered over the years but I think part of why she's always one of those "if only" skaters is because she does have the natural capacity to be really confident and just put it all out there. We saw that when she won Nationals, then at the Nationals before the Olympics, the Olympics, in the SP at 2010 Worlds, at 4CC the following year, etc. It comes and goes for Mirai and I think winning Nationals at 14 then getting bombarded with injuries and puberty pretty much directly afterwards was very difficult for her, but to me, Mirai mostly seems to be a bit unfocused, the confidence is not as much of an issue. Obviously it helps to have both, and while most girls will seem more confident at 14 or 15 compared to 16 or 17, some seem very socially conscious and nervous even as young teens. Caroline is one example and I do think Adelina is another. It's true Tuk can rely on her technique and I think that does help with her confidence because just the way she carries herself, there is a difference, Liza seems more assured.