Help from ice dance fans.

[skateluvr]

Ok I need facts and opinions. Are the gold medalist the best pair ever? Are they better than the other medalists? Why? Maybe one sees in person the difference.

I personally like 4 teams much better. I'm not like spellbound. I think Marlie team and Voir teams superior. Please help me see what judges see and where these big numbers are from -thank you.

How do they ever choose this is the most subjective sport for me....

 

[icedinn]

I'm not going to get into the GOAT thing, others can argue amongst themselves there. But they are the best in the world right now. I'm very interested in seeing Tessa and Scott back and wonder if they'll catch up with p/c.

 

[caitie]

I feel like everyone is going to rhapsodize over how they are unbeatable for the next two weeks and then Weaver and Poje or Chock and Bates are going to beat them on TES at the Team Challenge Cup and it will be really funny.

Personally, I prefer the excitement of VM and DW's more athletic style with big highlight elements. (I miss when teams did combo lifts!!!) P/C have ushered in the hot new style, and it's nice, but it's not my favorite, and I'm not impressed by their individual elements. I prefer many other team's spins, lifts, and twizzles to theirs. It would be fine with me if they were still winning for being good all-around skaters, but it's tough for me to swallow that they are getting the best scores on all of these elements. (The Shibs beat them on twizzles, but not by enough IMO.)

 

[dorispulaski]

Certainly Torvill & Dean and Klimova & Ponamarenko were better, IMO. I have seen all 3 couples live, too.

But P & C do have lovely, fluid stroking with great knee action, and a really nice dance spin. And they can bring an audience to their feet...as could Meryl & Charlie and Tessa & Scott.

Meryl and Charlie were more powerful and had better lifts and twizzles and better timing. Tessa and Scott had better unison, twizzles and better timing.

What they did not have was a tech panel that gave 7 couples in an FD event all level 4's. When you have that, it is easy to get an IJS world record.

When I tell you that Weaver & Poje got their best Free Dance score ever for their FD, in which they made audience-visible mistakes, you will know it was not just the tech panel that was very, very high scoring.

 

[tulosai]

I personally definitely would say they are not yet the best of all time. They do, however, appear to be the best of the teams out there right now, at least in most areas. I'd look to Doris's post for a list of teams that I agree were better. However, P/C are still in the middle of their career, not yet to or probably even close to the end, so who knows where they'll end up

 

[sarama]

Just my personal opinion, not an expert: I feel P/C have really improved from 2013-2014 to 2014-2015 and furthermore this season, rising to the occasion and using to their advantage the fact that the field had no clear leaders. On the other side all the supposed new top teams were splitting, injured (B/S), coming without motivation from the Olympic season (C/L), or simply stagnating (W/P). IMHO all the teams that were supposed to rise after the Sochi season were far more interesting while V/M and D/W were still competing. The exception being the Shibs and P/C, probably helped by the fact that they are still very young. This said, I feel like the middle-of-the-pack ranked teams are really improving (Piper/Paul, Guignard/Fabbri, Coomes/Buckland, Hubbell/Donohue...) and so are the even lower ranked teams. In the end the teams in the last two groups of the FD at worlds looked all on the same level but P/C and maybe the Shibs, thus looking (especially P/C) like 'some of the greatest' simply because they were shining really bright compared to the rest of the field

 

[Ares]

No, not the best ''ever'', judging panel rewarded them with the highest ever score but many other teams also got some boost to their score. Either way these are just numbers. In the last 10 years or so I preferred Davis / White or Scott / Moir (albeit I always rooted for Meryl & Charlie when these two had to face each other).

 

[Rossig]

I think they are the best current team. They have incredible talent, thanks to which their skating is so effortless and fluid. And I believe they have chance to become legends of ice dancing. Personally I'm more excited with their skating than with skating of V&M and D&W. But it's too early to call them the best ever. Even though so many years have passed, T&D are still not surpassed as the best ice dance team ever. Probably there are a couple of more teams (including D&W and V&M), that at the moment can be also called as greater teams. But P&C are so young and talented, their future is really bright.

 

[Alextim]

They are true dancers, not only skaters. For me they have the best skating skills and body language of all the time. And they are so young !

 

[WeakAnkles]

Torvill and Dean revolutionized ice dancing. Before them, it was Lawrence Welk On Ice! Now that can be enjoyable, but for years there was a debate over whether ice dancing was indeed a sport or just well Lawrence Welk On Ice.

When P/C revolutionize ice dancing to the same degree, then we'll talk. It's a little soon after only three seasons in seniors.

 

[GF2445]

P/C need more time.
If they can show a bit more versatility in their programs, them we can revisit.

 

[Snow63]

Papadakis/Cizeron is good, not question about that. But GOAT? No. They are unbalanced team in which male skater is stronger than female technically and presentation skills-wise. Besides, Papadakis's positions during lifts are always not difficult enough, she basically just lays in his arms or lean away slightly.
In this Worlds FD she had bad exit from her twizzle during their first step sequence and Cizeron had a slight visible wobble on the entry into their combination spin. These two things ALONE should have costed them their WR score, not to mention other less visible imperfections. Their style is magnificent however, and they deserve highest PCS score. But in my opinion both american teams should have won TES in Boston. So, no matter how magical they are, they still need better execution and perfect unison to be even considered GOAT.

 

[uhh]

All of what @Snow63 said, plus:

They are clearly the best at the "Montreal style", which is what is in fashion right now. But if you go back and look at their earlier programs, particularly their SDs, you'll see they struggled with different styles, and particularly with faster, more complicated rhythms. They also had big timing problems in their SD last season. So it remains to be seen if they can show real versatility and that they can do a real range of dances in the way that K/P, T/D or V/M did (I'm thinking with V/M more about their CDs, ODs & SDs than FDs).

It's the area that their team really has to address; I didn't think their Weeknd ex showed that they could manage this, but it's just an ex & maybe they'll do something amazing with the SD next year, who knows. But the approach to the RW this year doesn't fill me with optimism. The music wasn't clearly waltz & march (it's not even 3/4!), it was just more of Montreal's usual lyrical style. They were told by the judges at Euros that their dance wasn't clearly enough in the specified style, that the rhythms weren't defined enough & the style wasn't being captured. And the main change for Worlds was to add an annoying drum beat over the top that was in the correct rhythms, but not to really change the choreo to capture the spirit of the dance style. At the moment they get away with a lot that lower ranked teams wouldn't. If they can grow in these areas maybe they would have a claim to being among the best ever. But if the judges are going to ignore these weakness & the errors that others have mentioned, there is no real incentive for them to do so.

 

[dreamsk8]

Figure Skating regardless of the disciple is a very subjective sport as it always has been. You have your favorites who do amazing and do a certain level of perfection and they don't even get on the medal stand. Its skating
You have your "it" skaters/teams that can do wrong but don't get scored like it.
I don't try to figure it out I watch and enjoy
It's Figure Skating and I love it:luv17:

 

[dorispulaski]

What @uhh and @Snow63 said. I'd add that inattention to timing and to getting the correct character of a dance rhythm is a particular feature of the current Montreal style, which focuses on long, deep edges at the expense of timing and character.

If you check the protocols of less highly ranked Montreal teams, several got timing calls on the Ravensburger.

As an old fuddy duddy who particularly rejoices when dance movements and steps are sharp on the beat, and who loves to see a waltz be truly a waltz and a foxtrot a foxtrot, not to mention a polka a polka, this distresses me a lot.

Suffice it to say that under the current rules, they are the current best...however, I could easily write a set of rules where they might not be, particularly in the SD.

I am sorry to see Tessa and Scott go to Montreal. I would rather they went to Carol Lane. V&M, like P&C, were sometimes a little weaker in the SD than the FD, and I do not think Montreal will be of any help with that. Carol Lane is very good with accuracy and precision of the required sequences.

 

[Alextim]

One answer to this question is to listen to the experts and coaches who are unanimous. Tarrasova said she had never seen such dancers of her life !!!

 

[noskates]

I thought they were ethereal in Boston. So on that night - yes, they were the best in the world. But even not being any kind of an expert in ice dancing they seem to be beatable to me. I did think the placements were correct.

 

[WeakAnkles]

What @uhh and @Snow63 said. I'd add that inattention to timing and to getting the correct character of a dance rhythm is a particular feature of the current Montreal style, which focuses on long, deep edges at the expense of timing and character.

If you check the protocols of less highly ranked Montreal teams, several got timing calls on the Ravensburger.

As an old fuddy duddy who particularly rejoices when dance movements and steps are sharp on the beat, and who loves to see a waltz be truly a waltz and a foxtrot a foxtrot, not to mention a polka a polka, this distresses me a lot.

Suffice it to say that under the current rules, they are the current best...however, I could easily write a set of rules where they might not be, particularly in the SD.

I am sorry to see Tessa and Scott go to Montreal. I would rather they went to Carol Lane. V&M, like P&C, were sometimes a little weaker in the SD than the FD, and I do not think Montreal will be of any help with that. Carol Lane is very good with accuracy and precision of the required sequences.

Carol Lane would be a genius, unexpected choice. Because she and her team can create quirky offbeat choreography that integrates the bete noir of ice dance choreography that isn't strictly ballroom: the step sequences. Zoeuva never really did successfully with V/M. In both their samba program (with its marvelous circular twizzle sequence) and their tres moderne Carmen, the step sequences caused Voir's programs to sag and drag. Like I said, I'm not one who is looking with eager anticipation to Voir2.0, the Montreal Mush Year(s).

 

[dorispulaski]

I think they really could create something very special with Carol Lane. With Dubrueil & Lauzon, I fear to see them spreading the same old romantic marshmallow fluff over white bread as the other teams there.

 

[caitie]

Carol Lane hasn't been very publicly supportive of their comeback, though. She sounded peeved about it during her commentary.