HIstory in the making?

[Fossi]

I love Ando. Will she attempt and land the quad at Worlds? Doing this would make her the first female to land the quad in a senior competition, or ever in a senior ladies event.
If she wins Worlds, because I believe she has a shot, she would also make history again, right? Of course, I don't think she WILL win, but you can never say never. Even if she just medals at Worlds, would this be a history making event? Imagine how wonderful it would be for her to win her very first senior Worlds, and land a 3/3 AND a quad!!!
I can not wait for Worlds. It is going to be amazing. I hope the girls all live up to their potential.



ETA: does this belong in Worlds forum? Please move if it does and my apologies.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Fossi - I think she should get credit for landing the first quad in any compeititon. Jr. Worlds is a highly competitive level.

the questions: Will that win her gold in Dortmund? and Will that require a new hip in two or three years?

Let's hope for the former rather than the latter.

Joe

 

[RIskatingfan]

I don't make predictions for Dortmund regarding Miki Ando. If she pulls it off (a clean program with the quad and 3/3), she can blow away the competition and win the gold. But there's a very high probability she'll end up "only" in top 10 IMO.

I'm sure she'll attempt a quad in her LP, she has nothing to lose. It's not very consistent (I think 50/ 50 IIRC), but if she lands it, that will show in the technical mark and of course in the record books. No woman ever landed a quad at a Worlds competition.

Joe, I got the impression you thought she landed one at Jr. Worlds... I don't remember about the QR, but in the LP her quad was not clean. She had a hand down and then stumbled out of it, so I don't know how much of a quad that really was (and how the judges marked it).

 

[tharrtell]

RI - I read the same thing. I also read it was supposed to have been underrotated by 1/2. I believe she did 5 triples. How will the judges hold up a 5 triple/1 quad attempt under the 6.0 system? Will be interesting.

 

[RIskatingfan]

Yes, I think I also read that some thought it was underrotated.

Judes mark triples, combinations, quad attempts and they mark spins, footwork, etc, and of course, there's the presentation mark too. And the position they put her also depends on how the other skaters will do too. It's hard to predict where a judge puts Ando with 5 triples and a quad attempt without the program having been skated

It will all depend on how she skates during the competition. She can also skate a fabulous LP and even win it but not medal because of a bad skated SP. It's just too hard to predict with the strong ladies field we have this year.

 

[mzheng]

I agree someone said that she definitely will try the quad. She has nothing to lose only gain.

 

[Matt]

Ando tries the quad in her long programme every time, whether she lands it cleanly or not, though it will be interesting to see if she tries in in the QR at Dortmund. If everything I've read is any indication, she probably will.

As to the issue of Jr. competition vs. Sr. competition, it is irrelevant. If it is an ISU sponsored event, and somebody does something noteworthy (that is upheld by the referee/technical specialist), it will count. So, Ando is on record as the first woman to land a quadruple jump (at 2003 JGP Final). Goebel got credit as the first American to land a quad in competiton, and he did it in the Juniors (JGP Final, the year of which escapes me)

 

[shine]

All I can say is that I wish CoP was already, officially in use by now. That way nobody would be an automatic contender just because she has a quad. People are already predicting Ando to be the 2006 Olys winner, but they are forgetting that with CoP being used there, hard jumps, despite their difficulty, would have a much restricted value alone. One can't win just because they wow the crowd with a quad or a crazy 3/3 combination.

 

[RIskatingfan]

Well, it's a sport after all. And regardless of how much it's being rewarded by the judges, athletes will always train and try to be a step ahead of the competition and do something the others don't. It's not just a matter of wowing the crowd with a quad or a 3/3. "Crowd" can't even tell the different jumps or count revolutions. A female skater landing a quad and difficult combinations is an achievement IMO (possible consequences is another story). How many thought this would be possible a few years ago? That said, personally I don't immediately jump on bandwagons because a female skater is landing 3/3. I didn't like Pavuk at Euros, for example. It's an athletic feat but it doesn't make her a favorite of mine or a contender for gold. How many of the ladies landing 3/3 are fighting for gold?

I think what's impressive about Ando is that she doesn't have just those jumps, it's that she's a good skater plus she has those jumps.

 

[ouridol]

I love Ando. Will she attempt and land the quad at Worlds? Doing this would make her the first female to land the quad in a senior competition, or ever in a senior ladies event.
If she wins Worlds, because I believe she has a shot, she would also make history again, right? Of course, I don't think she WILL win, but you can never say never. Even if she just medals at Worlds, would this be a history making event? Imagine how wonderful it would be for her to win her very first senior Worlds, and land a 3/3 AND a quad!!!
I can not wait for Worlds. It is going to be amazing. I hope the girls all live up to their potential.



ETA: does this belong in Worlds forum? Please move if it does and my apologies.

I think Miki is an amazing skater as well. I cannot wait for Worlds! Hopefully she can pull off some clean skates and we'll let the judges decide the rest
Miki Ando, if im not mistaken, landed the quad salchow at the Senior JPN Nats most RECENTLY.

 

[Nadine]

Hi Fossi!

Love this thread b/c, like you, I too adore Miki Ando (she is an all-time favorite of mine, no lie). Btw, another all-time favorite is Sarah Hughes, whom you like also IIRC. Except where we differ is on Sasha Cohen, she's a favorite of mine. ^)

Back to Miki and your wonderful questions - I'll take a stab @ them...

I love Ando. Will she attempt and land the quad at Worlds? Doing this would make her the first female to land the quad in a senior competition, or ever in a senior ladies event.

ME: hmm, as regards the 4S....YES.....I have no doubt whatsoever that she'll attempt it, since she has done so ever since she first attempted & landed it in competition @ 2002 JGPF on 12/14/02.

Including the most recent 2004 Jr. Worlds, Miki has attempted the 4S eight times in competition, and has landed it a total of four times (i.e. 2002 JGPF, 2003 Jr. Worlds, 2003 Jr. & Sr. Nationals).

As regards being the first to land the QUAD, her name is already in the record books (see above; btw her nickname is the Quad Queen, and for good reason). One more thing, as another poster mentioned, doesn't matter whether one was a jr. or sr. when the feat was accomplished. But would like to state that she has landed it in Sr. competition as well, specifically Japan's most recent Nationals. 'nuff said.

If she wins Worlds, because I believe she has a shot, she would also make history again, right?

ME: yes, but then again that's a big IF.......and, personally, I don't think she will (even if she lands "everything").........JMHO. Btw, Oksana Baiul is the only female singles skater to win Worlds on her first try.

Even if she just medals at Worlds, would this be a history making event?

ME: hmm, not really, other female single skaters have done so on their first try (e.g. Chen Lu, Katarina Witt, Elaine Zayak, etc.). Still, it's rare, but not impossible or something that is "history making". However, IMHO, it does deserve recognition.

Imagine how wonderful it would be for her to win her very first senior Worlds, and land a 3/3 AND a quad!!!

ME: yes, now that really would be something (see above) ~ a dream skate, if you will ~ but to do so with the 3Z/3R (which she has landed 8 out of 11 times thus far in the FS, not counting the SP) & the 4S (4:8 so far) would be out-of-this-world! Btw, she has only landed both difficult elements (i.e. 4S & 3Z/3R) ONCE together in the same competition @ 2003 Jr. Nationals. And even then it wasn't perfect b/c she had planned 6 triples in total, but only landed 5, plus the 4S of course (which IMHO counts as two triples). In fact, this is what she landed ~ 3Z/3R, 4S, 2A, 3T/1T, 3F, 3R, 2A.

It's kinda hard to tell what Miki has planned......in 2002, she planned & landed 7 triples in total (@ two JGPs).......2A, 3Z/3R, 3F, 3S, 3T, 3Z, 3R, 2A. But then in 2003 all that changed b/c she had successfully landed the 4S for the first time ever at the end-of-the-year competition (i.e. 2002 JGPF). So then she starts off 2003 by putting the gutsy 4S in every competition & consequently it affects her consistency somewhat (actually only landed two triples @ 2003 Japan JGP; still she won b/c everyone else was awful also). Btw, I admire Miki so much for putting her consistency at risk in order to strive for harder elements (my hat goes off to her).

Back on topic, it's really hard to tell what she has planned now (see above). Since she started off the 2003 season with attempting two 3/3s @ Mexico JGP........3Z/3R, 3F/3T(fall), 2A (huge), 3F, 3R, 3S, 2A(stepout)........I thought, aha, so this is her "new" plan. Then she changed it around again as the season wore on.......started adding the 4S again (with a couple of disastrous results).......but finally landed it both times @ Jr. & Sr. Nationals (once with the 3Z/3R)! Still, I'm always a bit bewildered when it comes to competition time b/c I'm not sure what she'll try, only that whatever it is, it will be unprecedented & very very difficult. Hmm, that said, I think her long-term goal (down the road) will be to land 6 triples (two 3/3s included) & the 4S. JMHO.

Peace & Love, Nadine

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MIKI (mouse)!!!

 

[Fossi]

Thank you Nadine for your post. I did not know some of that about other skaters already getting a medal at their first Worlds, or that Oksana won at her first Sr. Worlds? I have only seen Oksana skate once. She must've been very talented!!

 

[gkelly]

Re: Re: HIstory in the making?

hmm, not really, other female single skaters have done so on their first try (e.g. Chen Lu, Katarina Witt, Elaine Zayak, etc.). Still, it's rare, but not impossible or something that is "history making". However, IMHO, it does deserve recognition.

Not those three. Witt and Zayak debuted at 10th and 11th, respectively, at 1980 Worlds. Chen was 12th at 1991 Worlds.

There are other examples, however. For instance, Holly Cook's bronze in 1990 and Harding's and Kerrigan's silver and bronze in 1991. Obviously most of the ladies at 1947 and 1922 Worlds, after years of no competition being held during world wars, and Madge Syers in 1902 and/or 1906, along with the other medalists in the first ladies' event in 1906.

There are probably others, but it'd take some searching to find them.

 

[Nadine]

Re: Re: Re: HIstory in the making?

Not those three. Witt and Zayak debuted at 10th and 11th, respectively, at 1980 Worlds. Chen was 12th at 1991 Worlds.

There are other examples, however. For instance, Holly Cook's bronze in 1990 and Harding's and Kerrigan's silver and bronze in 1991. Obviously most of the ladies at 1947 and 1922 Worlds, after years of no competition being held during world wars, and Madge Syers in 1902 and/or 1906, along with the other medalists in the first ladies' event in 1906.

There are probably others, but it'd take some searching to find them.

Thanks gkelly for the correction (btw fascinating info. about those whom you listed, no lie, much appreciated)!

Hmm, for some reason I thought those three (aka LuLu, Witt, & Zayak) medalled their respective first time @ Worlds (must've been their second time). Because IIRC Katarina Witt won bronze or silver one year, then came back to place 4th the following year (year before the Olympics btw), then won 4 more World Golds with another bronze or silver in their somewhere (6 in total). And I know Elaine Zayak won silver one year before she won gold. And LuLu is a two-time bronze medalist @ Worlds (not to mention the Olympics) and also won Worlds one year, as well as placed second to Michelle Kwan in 1996 (memorable one).

***Note: does anyone have detailed stats on the aforementioned as concerns Worlds? I'd really appreciate it (no lie). Hard to keep track of World Record Accomplishments b/c they're held every single year (barring War or disaster; aka WWI, WWII, 1961). Much easier to memorize Olympic Stats IMHO b/c they're held only twice a decade or once every 4 yrs. (1994 being the exception).***

Only my all-time favorite skaters (aka Henie, Baiul, Hughes, Ando) am I 110% positive about their respective achievements. For instance, Sonja Henie actually medalled her first time @ Worlds (placed 2nd) and then thereafter won every every single time for 10 yrs. straight, but I didn't mention her in my original post b/c she skated during the first half of the last century. And, yes, so far Oksana Baiul is the only female singles skater to win on her first try @ Worlds IIRC.

Peace & Love, Nadine

P.S. Thanks also, Fossi, for your reply.

"My first Olympic victory meant so much to me that I broke right down and wept in the locker room after I knew the results. It seemed to me then I had worked my way uphill a long time to get there. It was a very short time, as I see it now, but the first hundred weeks are undoubtedly the longest." - Sonja Henie
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3632169/1078150515140_1henieschafer.jpg

 

[Kasey]

Would it be history in the making, also, for the same skater to win both Junior and Senior worlds? (Although, I guess Ando would have a much better chance of that than Griazev).

 

[clairecloutier]

I haven't seen Miki Ando skate yet, so I'm really looking forward to seeing her at Worlds. I do hope, however, that she isn't a "one-trick pony"--all jumps and little artistry.

Also, I am a little bit skeptical about whether women skaters should even be trying quad jumps. (Actually, maybe even the men shouldn't be doing them!) Quads are exciting, no doubt, but after what's happened to Tara Lipinski and Alexei Yagudin, I think a cautious approach is in order to quads and triple/triples. I actually wouldn't mind seeing the ISU impose a limit on the number of quads and triple/triples that a skater can try in a single program.

 

[euterpe]

It isn't just Yagudin and Lipinski. It's also Stojko, who suffered a terrible groin injury during the 1998 Olympics, and never returned to his previous form again; Deanna Stellato, who was forced to quit skating; Naomi Nari Nam, who's tried comeback after comeback, without success. It's Honda and Plushenko this year.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

And what about Randy Gardener? The biggest hope for a US OLy gold, and the groin thing hits him in practice.

Joe

 

[BravesSkateFan]

It's Honda and Plushenko this year

and lets not forget Tim Goebel. He had an injury last year and this year problems again.

 

[Nadine]

Would it be history in the making, also, for the same skater to win both Junior and Senior worlds? (Although, I guess Ando would have a much better chance of that than Griazev).

Good question, Kasey, only wish I knew the answer...

Where are the historians out there.....we need some answers y'all.......where's that Ben character when ya need him; the one that was featured on "Reflections On Ice: A Diary of Ladies Figure Skating" (come out, come out, wherever you are).

I'm just so glad that Miki Ando has arrived.........every once in while ladies figure skating needs that special someone.........the ONE that can push the sport forward (aka Sonja Henie 1A, Carol Heiss 2A, Barbara Ann Scott 2Z, Denise Biellmann 3Z, Midori Ito 3A, Miki Ando 4S). 'nuff said.

***Note: the aforementioned ladies remind me of an excellent show that was debuted this month on HBO entitled "Iron-Jawed Angels", about women's suffrage ~ makes me proud to be a woman ~ there's always opposition, yet they forge onward.***

Peace & Love, Nadine

"To be or not to be, that is the question...to die...to sleep...a chance to dream. Aye, there's the rub..." - Shakespeare
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3632169/1077220232169_1olympicchampions.jpg