How Would You Pick Your Olympic Team Event Lineup?

[drivingmissdaisy]

I was just thinking about how difficult it might be to (fairly) pick a line-up for the team event. If it were up to me, here is how I would pick the teams:

Singles:
SP: Winner of the SP at Nationals is GUARANTEED a spot. Second spot picked on basis of SP results throughout season.
LP: Winner of the LP gets a spot. Second spot picked based on LP results of season.

Pairs and Dance:
Top two teams from Nationals get picked, one skates SP one skates LP at USFSA's discretion.

Would you use different criteria?

 

[enlight78]

well if I could pick anybody , My dream olympic team would be

Daisuke
Yu-Na
Davis/White
T/T

I know that wasn't what you ment but I coiuldn't help myself

 

[Mathman]

Singles:

SP: Winner of the SP at Nationals is GUARANTEED a spot. Second spot picked on basis of SP results throughout season.

I don't think there is a second spot. Just one lady and one man, right? And it has to be someone who is already there competing individually, IIRC.

 

[Violet Bliss]

I don't think there is a second spot. Just one lady and one man, right? And it has to be someone who is already there competing individually, IIRC.

ISU wants to work the same skaters to the ground.

Actually it would be very interesting to have a team event excluding the individual competitors. That would definitely favor nations with deep fields. Allowing retired skaters to compete in Team without participating in other competitions would make it even more interesting.

 

[Mathman]

I think it was the IOC that insisted on the format, to make sure that this would be a legitimate Olympic event and not a side show. IIRC the ISU originally proposed a looser structure, but the IOC imposed the requirement that only skaters already qualified for individual competition could contest the team event.

Countries with deep fields will still have an advantage, though. If a country has two ladies of about equal strength, for instance, they can switch up between the SP and the LP. Up to two such substitutions are allowed. Most likely only the usual suspects -- Japan, Canada, Russia, and USA -- will have the depth and breadth to contend anyway.

 

[dorispulaski]

I heard that they might allow different skaters to do the SP and LP for a team, or you could still have one skate/team do both.

So for the USA, for example, you could have Gracie Gold do the SP and Ashley Wagner do the LP, but you would probably perfer Davis & White to do both the SD & FD.

 

[ice coverage]

As a sidebar to comments in assorted threads as to the widely varying opportunities among different sports for athletes to compete in Olympic team events, today I was surprised to learn of an unfortunate reality for fencers that a New York Times blog mentioned today.

"As a rule, the International Olympic Committee takes one team from men’s and women’s fencing out of the mix every four years, as a means of limiting the medals the sport can receive. And for the 2012 Games, men’s epee drew the short sword, as it were." (emphasis added)
Yikes! For women, the team sabre event will be missing in London. What a shame for all the fencers affected.

At last month's world championships, the US men's epee team won gold for the first time ever. But only two of the four American champions will compete in London. [Only two fencers per country are allowed in the Olympic events for individuals.]
"And while most members of the team said that they believe the victory at the world championships is a more difficult achievement and more meaningful than a victory in London, none of them would discount the allure of Olympic gold."

(The good news for fencers -- at least compared to figure skaters -- is that they will have ten Olympic events in London. Men and women each have individual competitions in foil, epee, and sabre; plus two team events.)

 

[Scout]

Most likely only the usual suspects -- Japan, Canada, Russia, and USA -- will have the depth and breadth to contend anyway.

I'd say only Canada, Russia and the USA. Without Narumi and Mervin, Japan is weak in both pairs and dance. And unlike the WTT, singles doesn't receive a very heavy weight in determining the winner.

It's so wierd to think that a Canadian lady has a chance at Olympic gold...

 

[redwing]

I think it was the IOC that insisted on the format, to make sure that this would be a legitimate Olympic event and not a side show. IIRC the ISU originally proposed a looser structure, but the IOC imposed the requirement that only skaters already qualified for individual competition could contest the team event.

Countries with deep fields will still have an advantage, though. If a country has two ladies of about equal strength, for instance, they can switch up between the SP and the LP. Up to two such substitutions are allowed. Most likely only the usual suspects -- Japan, Canada, Russia, and USA -- will have the depth and breadth to contend anyway.

I'm of the opinion that this event is the worst idea by the ISU. I wonder how many who view the WTT as a cheese event will change their tune only when olympic medals are on the line. Limiting the participants to the top six countries cheapens the value of the medals and takes away from the spirit of Olympic games.

So for example S/S from Germany has one opportunity for OGM but T/T from Russia will have two. I personally enjoy both pairs and hope ISU re-considers before they destroy whatever dignity is left in this beautiful sport. This is nothing but a side show and instead of cash prizes, they will award olympic medals

 

[Olympia]

well if I could pick anybody , My dream olympic team would be

Daisuke
Yu-Na
Davis/White
T/T

I know that wasn't what you ment but I coiuldn't help myself

I completely appreciate your take on the thread! I'd substitute Mao Asada and Savchenko/Szolkowy in the appropriate disciplines. We could dispense with national affiliations and have mixed teams competing under the Olympic flag.

Golden411, that's very distressing about the fencing teams. They want to limit the number of medals???!!! How come a gymnast or a swimmer can win seven or eight medals at one Games? I don't understand the reasoning. Let me see: if you're a weak country, you can't send many fencers, and if you're a strong country, you can't send many fencers. How does that compute?

 

[Mathman]

Limiting the participants to the top six countries cheapens the value of the medals and takes away from the spirit of Olympic games.

Actually, I believe it is the top ten. That's not really overly restrictive when you consider that in the last Olympics only ten nations qualified both a pairs team and a dance team for the Olympics at all. (This includes Estonia, with Sergejeva & Glebov and Shtork & Rand. ) The top five after the short program move on to the long.

I wonder how many who view the WTT as a cheese event will change their tune only when olympic medals are on the line.

I am pretty sure the ISU hopes the answer to this question is, oh, about a billion.

 

[redwing]

Actually, I believe it is the top ten. That's not really overly restrictive when you consider that in the last Olympics only ten nations qualified both a pairs team and a dance team for the Olympics at all. (This includes Estonia, with Sergejeva & Glebov and Shtork & Rand. ) The top five after the short program move on to the long.



I am pretty sure the ISU hopes the answer to this question is, oh, about a billion.

Sorry but ISU can't have it both ways. FS was always about the individual (pairs were always viewed as one person) and that the individual had direct control of their destiny to reach the pinnacle of competition through an olympic gold medal.

The idea that a weak skater can be awared an olympic medal just because that country has a strong federation is highly questionable. Only fans who will favor this event are those whose favorite skaters has a chance to medal. It's a mockery of the olympic spirit in FS which already has a perception of being corrupt and this will just further tarnish the image in my opinion.

Strong filter, I didn't even say anything bad word

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

I don't like it because it seems like an ill-thought out vanity project for Cinquata. I disagree that it will further the perception of corruption or that it mocks the olympic spirit, though.

 

[redwing]

I don't like it because it seems like an ill-thought out vanity project for Cinquata. I disagree that it will further the perception of corruption or that it mocks the olympic spirit, though.

So you see nothing wrong with say for example Cynthia Phanuef being awarded OGM over Carolina Kostner or Mao Asada if Carolina and Mao don't medal in Ladies event but Canada wins gold in the team event ? And Cynthia retires as OGM winner and Carolina and Mao retires without ?

I agree with you about Cinquanta, he needs to go !

What about Reed/Reed if they are awarded OGM for team event and Davis/White don't get OGM in dance and both teams retire ? Sorry but this event has no place in olympics when you consider other dance teams that are stronger than R/R and won't get an additional chance for OGM.

I have the utmost respect for all skaters names I use in example for all their hard training and love for this beautiful sport. I only use their names to show how ridiculous this team event is not to speak poorly of them.

 

[ice coverage]

What about the possibility that the Olympic team event could be beneficial to the long-term future of figure skating as a whole (even if it alters the landscape of medal opportunities for individual skaters)?

Will it not give each country a good incentive to overcome its weakness(es) among the four disciplines? Who knows what the effects could be in 2018 or beyond??

 

[Mathman]

The "Olympic spirit" is to see which country can wave its flag more vigorously and patriotically than all the others. This is in contrast to the world championship, which is where athletes complete to see who is the best. Cynthia Phaneuf won't win a team medal, Canada will.

I don't fault Cinquanta for grasping at this straw. Maybe the team ice skating thing will attract television viewers like the team gymnastics event does every four years.

 

[Violet Bliss]

So you see nothing wrong with say for example Cynthia Phanuef being awarded OGM over Carolina Kostner or Mao Asada if Carolina and Mao don't medal in Ladies event but Canada wins gold in the team event ? And Cynthia retires as OGM winner and Carolina and Mao retires without ?

I agree with you about Cinquanta, he needs to go !

What about Reed/Reed if they are awarded OGM for team event and Davis/White don't get OGM in dance and both teams retire ? Sorry but this event has no place in olympics when you consider other dance teams that are stronger than R/R and won't get an additional chance for OGM.

I have the utmost respect for all skaters names I use in example for all their hard training and love for this beautiful sport. I only use their names to show how ridiculous this team event is not to speak poorly of them.

Why do you need to pair up two separate results to make an unacceptable scenario? Kostner and Asada are responsible for their own results, with nothing to do with Phaneuf. Ditto for every other competitor. Team event is a separate event from Men, Ladies, Pairs, and Ice Dance.

Many OGM have been awarded to "lesser" athletes in relay and other team events without such events being disrespected or blamed for individuals' results. People understand the difference between team and individual events.

 

[redwing]

The "Olympic spirit" is to see which country can wave its flag more vigorously and patriotically than all the others. This is in contrast to the world championship, which is where athletes complete to see who is the best. Cynthia Phaneuf won't win a team medal, Canada will.

I don't fault Cinquanta for grasping at this straw. Maybe the team ice skating thing will attract television viewers like the team gymnastics event does every four years.

I have a different view than most then I guess. To me The Olympic spirit is best expressed in the Olympic Creed.

"The most important thing in the Olympic Games is not to win but to take part, just as the most important thing in life is not the triumph but the struggle. The essential thing is not to have conquered but to have fought well."

"The Olympic Games give us the chance to celebrate our shared humanity, and the object of the competitors should be to express this humanity by performing fairly and honestly to the best of their natural ability. The Olympic spirit can be seen in all those who compete in the Games, not just in those who win the medals. This spirit can be seen in athletes from poorer parts of the world, who have little chance to develop their skills or gain experience, but who do the best they can with limited resources, and who represent their country with pride and dignity. In the spirit of the Olympics, the most important thing is to have taken part fairly, and to have done one's best. This is what the Olympic Games are really about, and some might say it's what life is really about as well."

Read the bold and apply them to countries with weak federations. Giving some nations more chances at an olympic medal over others is against my personal beliefs no matter if my country may benefit.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

So you see nothing wrong with say for example Cynthia Phanuef being awarded OGM over Carolina Kostner or Mao Asada if Carolina and Mao don't medal in Ladies event but Canada wins gold in the team event ? And Cynthia retires as OGM winner and Carolina and Mao retires without ?

Well.... not really. No more than I think there's anything inherently wrong about the fact that Stoijko has more Olympic medals than Browning. Ideally, if Canada/Japan win gold in the team event, Cynthia/the Reeds contribute to that. You assert that you view pairs/dance as one unit, but there's rarely a team that's truly equal overall. Averbukh was stronger than Lobacheva. Fusar-Poli was better than Margaglio. Volosozhar was stronger than Morosov.

The thing is, I'm afraid, actually, that the judges might perceive it the way you do - that certain skaters "deserve" the medal more than others. That thought process contributes more to corruption than a lesser light winning a medal elsewhere.

 

[redwing]

Why do you need to pair up two separate results to make an unacceptable scenario? Kostner and Asada are responsible for their own results, with nothing to do with Phaneuf. Ditto for every other competitor. Team event is a separate event from Men, Ladies, Pairs, and Ice Dance.

Many OGM have been awarded to "lesser" athletes in relay and other team events without such events being disrespected or blamed for individuals' results. People understand the difference between team and individual events.

My point is olympic figure skating has always been individual event no some hokey team event. You even make my point for me by saying all skaters are responsible for their own results.

Heck give them all medals and call them all olympic champions if you want to make a "Separate but Equal" event but limit who can and cannot participate. Just show up and maybe get an olympic medal, nevermind if you are horrible individually and alot of better athletes won't get the same chance as you.