Ice Dance - Free Dance

[kosjenka]

Agreed. For whatever reason nationalitic bonusess seem to come out of skating at home.

I honestly think it was okay for P&B to medal, but not with such margin. W&P deserved higher marks.

as for the nationalistic bonuses - remember Worlds 2004 and Winkler&Lose getting the bronze? that made me roll my eyes...

 

[Violet Bliss]

NorthernDancers, I want to focus on one point you brought up - the polish and the details. I notice both Tessa (and Carolina) sometimes just move their wrists with wonderful effects, in contrast to all the arm frailing as choreography by some skaters. In Dance, the looks the partners give each other can add much to the expression of the program as well as the connection. Tessa and Scott truly dance with each other, not using each other as props. These I find missing in D/W's programs even though Meryl does make faces, especially to begin the program.

I leave the hair spitting on technical evaluation to the judges and experts, but want to answer those who claim V/M are boring and their programs flat and unmemorable. I feel and perceive the opposite. They cast magical spells to bring you into the emotions of their dance. They are great artists besides being great athletes.

 

[Mrs. P]

People, can we talk on this board without personally attacking either team? Seriously. All I am seeing here is about how people look/are styled as opposed to their actual skill and performance. Or perhaps discuss objectively how the scores came out?

As I said, the actually judging shows they're pretty even. Today came down to levels. Which tells me that the judges didn't say "Oh I like "Funny Face" better" but rather "Hey Tessa and Scott your steps completed the required edges, turns, etc today. And your elements are slightly better executed."

On the other hand I think the judges said, "Meryl and Charlie, what a performance you did today! But unfortunately your steps were not good enough for that level 4 level you were hoping to get, that's going to cost you. In fact, despite your steps we like your performance just as much as Tessa and Scott (indeed they both scored 9.68 in performance). "

All I'm saying is that it seems the discussion has revolved around things that actually weren't really dinged or favored...

 

[Violet Bliss]

^^^^^ Good luck stopping people calling some winners jerks and worse.

 

[bigsisjiejie]

I believe the order of finish of the top 5 was decided before the competition started, barring a total wipeout by any of those teams. Yes, that is MY opinion and I will stick with it.

 

[Mrs. P]

^^^^^ Good luck stopping people calling some winners jerks and worse.

I realize that's not realistic. But all I'm saying is that V/M ubers are saying this is some sort of mandate/that D/W style is not so great. While D/W ubers are calling V/M names + fleshing a judging conspiracy.

Neither comment really gets to the heart of what should be discussed....

I think the only thing I question is not deliberate judge rigging, but rather what people saw:

Why did the tech controller feel that V/M had slightly better levels than D/W today? What did they see?

Why did the judging panel at Worlds feel D/W executed their FD less well than the judging panel at 4CC when Davis and Charlie clearly were not at their best? (i.e. why did D/W get less +GOE today?)

And not related to either question how did I/K suddenly have all their levels today when they've been struggling with levels all season long, even as recent as the preliminary round?

 

[romanoff81]

How many times do i have to tell you V&M`s free dance was more difficult the fact they can make so many changes mid course in the season and make them work is a testament to their true talent, while Meryl and charlie can`t do anything without the 100% guiding hand of Zueva.

 

[sky_fly20]

^^
they skyrocketed their rankings here
I/K getting ready to be crowned new russian no.1 Ice Dance
they are still a bit messy though, did you see his lift at the end, It looked a bit like she may fall off
even the announcer was about to say " ayayay " , lol

I think V/M win should shut Moir's complains for now at least

 

[Whitneyskates]

How many times do i have to tell you V&M`s free dance was more difficult the fact they can make so many changes mid course in the season and make them work is a testament to their true talent, while Meryl and charlie can`t do anything without the 100% guiding hand of Zueva.

What does that even mean

 

[leafygreens]

I believe the order of finish of the top 5 was decided before the competition started, barring a total wipeout by any of those teams. Yes, that is MY opinion and I will stick with it.

It makes you wonder, since all top 6 teams were the same rank through the Sd and FD.

 

[3T3T]

It seems to have got very heated in here tonight. A lot of people seem to have criticised Scott for saying he felt they should have won the GPF, that is the only time I recall him speaking out after a competition, is that a bad thing? What surprised me is the fact that both V/M and D/W got a lot of ten in their PCS, neither performance merited them. If I had to choose I would give the nod to V/M, not D/W biggest fans I find them so frantic and nearly OTT with some of the movements for me the lack the elegance and class of V/M.

My favourite performances were from W/P in both sections. I felt they were really undermarked in Performance Choreography & Interpretation/Timing. I really like P/B I am glad they got a medal, I thought after they messed up last year there chance was gone. I wonder have I/K laid claim to the russian no 1 spot, I enjoyed their performance but it was iffy in parts. B/S were really hit for the levels in both performances, I like this couple and am sure they will come back fighting next year.

The Shibs had a rough night, they were really hit on the TES, after the twizzles they went a bit OTT I think. One of my favourite performances was from the Azeris, thought they were marked tough.

 

[auser]

How many times do i have to tell you V&M`s free dance was more difficult the fact they can make so many changes mid course in the season and make them work is a testament to their true talent, while Meryl and charlie can`t do anything without the 100% guiding hand of Zueva.

Are you familiar with D/W and V/M choreo/training schedule first hand ... as both teams work with S/Z, can you speak with personal knowledge of how much development and innovation of V/M programs was strictly their own vision outside of S/Z input, vs what you characterize as D/W not being able to develop without Zueva's guiding hand?

 

[sky_fly20]

I think its just not working with V/M and D/W having the same coaches, it prevetns real competition and there is bound to be
favoritism, remember Yagudin and Zhenya under Mishin.

I think D/W I would suggest could look for a new coach not under the S/Z umbrella
If not in a few years they could even be passed by W/P , P/B
and next year S/Z will also be competing in seniors

 

[leafygreens]

no, Scott Moir fell but I don't believe he was completing an element at the time, so he was not penelized for anything but the fall... it was shocking because of who it was, but IIRC it didn't detract as much as it could have from the program. They came in second at that event.

And then he opened his big mouth and showed how totally classless he is.

 

[bellafurr]

Like some people on this board

 

[Mrs. P]

Are you familiar with D/W and V/M choreo/training schedule first hand ... as both teams work with S/Z, can you speak with personal knowledge of how much development and innovation of V/M programs was strictly their own vision outside of S/Z input, vs what you characterize as D/W not being able to develop without Zueva's guiding hand?

+1

I'd like to know this too...

 

[Mrs. P]

Doris, WHRE ARE YOU? I need some objective observation in midst of all this hostile discussion!

Can we please move beyond this petty comments, please?! If you want to flame each other, do it by private message.

Also can we talk about some other storylines?

** What happened to Shibs? What should they do next?
** Is C/L a world medalist in the making?
** W/P — Will they catchup to V/M-D/W? Mathman seems to think so.
** P/B — Retire now with a bronze or keep going?
** B/S and I/K — who will be Russia No. 1 by 2014. Or will it be juniors S/Z?
** H/D — A lock of USA No. 3 or even a threat for No. 2? Can Chock/Bates, Samulseon/Gilles, and others catch up?

** Should we start giving 4-5 spots to each country now...? The top 10 was basically Russia (5,6,9), USA(2,8,10) and Canada (1 and 4) (with P/B and C/L playing spoiler).

 

[Macassar88]

I think its just not working with V/M and D/W having the same coaches, it prevetns real competition and there is bound to be
favoritism, remember Yagudin and Zhenya under Mishin.

I think D/W I would suggest could look for a new coach not under the S/Z umbrella
If not in a few years they could even be passed by W/P , P/B
and next year S/Z will also be competing in seniors

I want virtue and moir to get choreo elsewhere
I think it would be amazing if Ingo Steur did some choreo for them. He's really innovative and they have the artistic talent to handle his ideas.

 

[Macassar88]

Like some people on this board

This

 

[Tonichelle]

And then he opened his big mouth and showed how totally classless he is.

It's no worse than what Johnn Weir has always been praised for (aka speaking his mind). I'm not a fan of the double standard. And before this sounds like a V/M fan dropping in to defend him, I actually am not a diehard of either team. Both have brought some excellent programs to the table (I like both FDs this year, no likey the SDs)