"Impossible" Jumps

[Mathman]

Swimming and Greco-Roman wrestling championships are widely covered prime time television entertainment in many countries. I haven't seen any attendance problems in the stands either.

I am happy to hear it! The only reason I picked on Greco-Roman wrestling is because the International Olympic Committee is currently considering whether to drop this sport (also fencing) from the Olympics, so I thought maybe this sport was not maintaining the interest of the public.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/olympics_2012/4464719.stm

As for the U.S., I was curious enough to look up the live audience attendance figures. (These are for the year 2000, for the United States and Canada.)

Baseball, 116,393,300 -- 27.6%
Football, 65,091,979 -- 15.4%
Basketball, 64,926,138 --15.4%
Hockey, 60,512,547 -- 14.3%
Horse Racing, 40,225,535 -- 9.5%
Auto Racing, 25,623,925 -- 6.1% (Worldwide, auto racing claims to be #2 behind soccer.)
Dog Racing, 12,348,147 -- 2.9%
Golf, 12,223,496 -- 2.9%
Soccer, 8,993,216 -- 2.1%
Tennis, 3,413,458 -- 0.8%

The next two were rodeo and jai alai. (! )

Curling is #20. (Did I mention this poll includes Canada?)

 

[gio]

Baseball, 116,393,300 -- 27.6%
Football, 65,091,979 -- 15.4%
Basketball, 64,926,138 --15.4%
Hockey, 60,512,547 -- 14.3%
Horse Racing, 40,225,535 -- 9.5%
Auto Racing, 25,623,925 -- 6.1% (Worldwide, auto racing claims to be #2 behind soccer.)
Dog Racing, 12,348,147 -- 2.9%
Golf, 12,223,496 -- 2.9%
Soccer, 8,993,216 -- 2.1%
Tennis, 3,413,458 -- 0.8%

It is interesting how different sport preferences are from country to country. In Italy soccer gets the highest tv rating, followed by auto racing (Formula1) and moto racing, than comes sports as volleyball, tennis, waterpolo. On the other hand in Italy there is no interest in football, baseball and golf and less interest in horse racing.
As for figure skating, last year Olympics tv ratings were really high for the Ladies (because of Caro and Silvia) and Ice Dance (Barbara/Maurizio), a little lower for Pairs and lower for Men.

 

[childfreegirl]

I don' t know one skater that can jump in both directions.

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but I think I read somewhere that Rohene Ward can jump in both directions. I could be wrong and if I am, I'm sure I'll be corrected.

 

[Teresa Dawn]

I remember an interview years ago that Stojko was trying Quintuplet jumps and said he was very close in practice... that was before the injury though

 

[SeaniBu]

As for the U.S., I was curious enough to look up the live audience attendance figures. (These are for the year 2000, for the United States and Canada.)

Thanks for that info MM.

Basketball has dropped in popularity considerably in the USA - much like MK "possibly" had an effect on FS Jordan likely had the same. I feel it was Barkley leaving shortly there after that sealed the decline deal here in the states anyway. Can't forget about the Shaq "deal" going sour. FIBA "claims" (2004) that over 400 million people play basketball throuout the world, that would mean one in every twelve men, women, children, and senior citizens. Obviously a incorrect statistic.

Formula One Racing has the largest television viewing audience in the world with just the Formula One championship bringing in 40 billion viewers annually.

Just for comparison, a quick review of 1992 in just the USA

NFL football
Women's figure skating tied with Women's gymnastics
Major League baseball
Pairs figure skating
Men's figure skating
Pairs Ice dancing
Men's gymnastics
NBA Basketball
NCAA/CFA college football
High school football
International/Olympic basketball
High school basketball
NASCAR stock car racing
Indy car racing
NCAA men's college basketball
International / Olympic volleyball
Platform diving
Little League baseball - this is one of the most fun to watch IMO, Kids just rock. My back yard used to be in view of a LLBB field and some of the best games I have ever seen were there. Takes a ball to the face in the out field and you can't get them to leave. "NO I'm fine coach, I'm fine, level me in." Just the epitome of personal integrity. Kids play sports with such determination sometimes it is awe inspiring.

Competitive swimming
Springboard diving tied with Rodeo
Thoroughbred racing
Air show - airplane stunts
Boxing


ETA - "In the late 1990s, almost 30 million Americans ice skated. The United States Figure Skating Association membership jumped 25 percent since 1994. It is speculated that 35 percent of the audience for figure skating may be male. According to some marketers, figure skating ranks just behind the NFL in U.S. popularity. In other words, figure skating may have merely completed its compulsory and long programs while its more exciting and even more popular short program awaits." - Robert VanWynsberghe


"Figure skating ranks as the most popular spectator sport among American women and their teenage daughters, providing an excellent opportunity to reach the non-traditional sport segment. In Europe as well, figure skating enjoys immense popularity, with women and girls accounting for the majority of figure skating viewers and fans." - http://www.itmssports.com/sports/figure/index.htm

Back to now -
2005 stats for the WORLD.
1. Football / Soccer
The most important and popular sport in the world. Its not as popular in India, USA and Canada as the rest of the world.

2. Basketball
The second most popular sport in the World. Questionable demographics but they all are anyway.

3. Auto Racing - F1, NASCAR, Rally (i.e Baja, etc... )
The highiest TV rating sport in the World. My buddy and I figure it is because you can just leave it on in the background and if something happens they stop the race temporarily and show plenty of reviews

4. Tennis
A worldwide sport, played everywhere. Wimbledon, US Open, Australia and the Davis Cup are major world events. In Women's stats, it’s the most popular.

5. Athleticism, like "track and field" - includes swimming / diving events.
Yep even that all amazing Shot-put is included.

6. Golf
A worldwide sport, played everywhere.

7. Boxing

8. Baseball
#1 sport in USA.

9. Volleyball / beach too, gee I wonder why.
Woman's Volley is the second top sport for Women.

10. Hockey includes ice, land and roller / inline.
The National Sport in Canada.

11. Water equipment - surf, wind-surf, boating, etc...
Many and of different kinds.

12. Skiing

13. Cricket

14. Rugby

15. Table Tennis
The National Sport in China. Numbers on it's side.

16. Martial Arts

17. Cycling / Biking

18. American Football
A Sport only being "really" popular in US

19. Handball
The biggest shocker to me.

20. Waterpolo

21. Bulls - fighting and running
Again based on participants / spectators in comparison to events should be clarified.

22. Badminton
Actually not so surprising. Aebischer (past goalie for the Avies was a world champ).

23. Polo

I'll just stop there for 2005.

Some rankings of FS popularity is as low as #153. It depends on wording of the actual statistics and where - if not the world. One estimated it in TV viewing as #32 in sports for TV viewers in the USA.

But the point remains, it is not where it used to be. And the basic factor in determining where it stands in popularity, THE FANS!!!

WE have to be heard, show faith in the new sys instead of railing it with out positive or constructive ideas associated with the "improvement ideas." A majority do that here I am speaking in general , i.e every day conversation.

IOW, if we all are saying the CoP sucks, then there will be no regaining of integrity. But the simple factor of saying, it's new needing improvement is a little more "appetizing" isn't it. See the point, popularity is based on the fans of said sport. What they generate, etc...

We all should know the power of semantics.

 

[Mathman]

The reason that I am not overly enthusiastic about more and more revolutions in jumps is because that is not really about skating skills. Landing a quadruple jump on an edge without falling, yes, that is a skating skill, but the CoP does not seem to care much one way or the other about that.

If it is just lauching your body into the air and twirling around, your could do it better on a trapeze or -- like Skaterdude -- on a trampoline.

To me, the things that make skating skating are edge work and spinning. The value of a huge spectacular leap is to punctuate the choreography. I agree with Joe that timing these showboat elements to the musical climaxes is what really sells a program.

 

[soogar]

Look no further than Ilia Klimkin - he does a cantalever down the diagonal of the rink into a triple jump (i forget which).


I thought Tim Goebel did this in his Olympic Free skate at SLC - a hydroblade into a triple loop.



I'm pretty sure this is do-able but might look too much like a mistake on a triple jump to warrant doing it. drills for getting double and triple jumps often involve landing the jump you can and then backspinning on teh landing and checking out. Also spinning jumping up for a double or triple and landing and spinning. Often for salchows and loops.

Ant

Fadeev did a double axel that landed right into a sit spin in 1989 Euros and Worlds.

 

[Mafke]

The reason that I am not overly enthusiastic about more and more revolutions in jumps is because that is not really about skating skills. Landing a quadruple jump on an edge without falling, yes, that is a skating skill, but the CoP does not seem to care much one way or the other about that.

THANK YOU!!!! That sums up what I don't like about CoP more clearly and concisely than anything I've come across before. Under present CoP, real skating skills have less priority than any number of non-skate related factors.
There's a similar problem with spirals where position of the free leg seems to be more important than what's going on with the skate.

 

[antmanb]

Did he replace his second Quad Toe with the Quad Sal, or do 3 Quads total?

As far as i know there were only two quads planned in the LP - one of each and they are the first two jumping passes of the program - if you go to youtube and search you can find professional footage fo teh two quads and amature footgae of the whole program from the other side of the rink.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

I think you're being purposefully acerbic.

Even with the Quad/Quad around, the sport would clearly be about far more than jumping.

Surya Bonaly was by far the best jumper in her day and never claimed the top spot at Worlds. Timothy Goebel out-jumped his Russian competitors in 2002 and 2003 at Worlds and Olympics but still placed below them. Kwan was often outjumped but still won by a good margin.

Firstly, Bonaly being the best jumper of her time is very much an opinion since she overlapped with Ito in her Career, i know which one i would say is the better jumper. And Bonaly's technique was never pretty. Her axel technique was unorthodox and the loop flip and lutz were not pretty. She got in the air and rotated but take offs and landings were not pretty. Except in the Toe and Sal - which were both good solid beautiful jumps for her.

Secondly, all of those people you mentioned only won against others with more jumps int eh days of 6.0, CoP is a new beast where you can rack up an awful lot of points for failed big tricks.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Perhaps you're confusing Ice Dance with Freestyle Skating.

It's pretty much impossible to have a Freestyle performance in which EVERYTHING goes along with the music perfectly.

By your reasoning, spins should rarely be more than just a few rotations. Otherwise they will never be a perfect match for the music.

I'd invite you to look at Many of Michelle Kwan's programs where every cross over, ever step and sometimes even rotation on a spin matches the beat of teh music...surely the aim in a skating performance should be that everythig is done to the music, just as much as the technical aim is to hit every triple and every spin. Just because many will not hit every element that doesn't mean they shouldn't try.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

I remember an interview years ago that Stojko was trying Quintuplet jumps and said he was very close in practice... that was before the injury though

Really??

i can't imagine anyone seriously training quints in an era when he was the only guys landing a reliable quad toe.

I remember an interview with him saying that he'd tried the 3T/4T for a while but found that he loast too much speed on the 3T to get enough flow for the 4T after it. The interviewer then asked him a about a 4T/4T combo and he said, every wide eyed that you'd have to be flying to have sufficient speed to pull that combo off.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Fadeev did a double axel that landed right into a sit spin in 1989 Euros and Worlds.

You see that woul dbe impressive on the basis that its adding an air turn to the existing flying sit spin and woul dbe fiendlishly difficult to control (and nto break your knee if you're going down into a sit spin!). BUt i would have thought the pressure ont eh alnding of a triple would make it impossible to land into anthing other than an upright spin.

Ant

 

[amber68]

Again, FS is not a 'higher, faster, etc-er' sport, it's a technique sport (or should be).

Oh, yes, it is. You misunderstood and misinterpreted the Olympic motto which is not to be taken literally.
“Faster,stronger higher” is not about running faster, being stronger or leaping higher but is about setting a higher goal and achieving more. It’s about competing against yourself, against the others, pushing your limits.
And yes I know figure skating is about technique and so are most of the other sports!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Oh, yes, it is. You misunderstood and misinterpreted the Olympic motto which is not to be taken literally.
“Faster,stronger higher” is not about running faster, being stronger or leaping higher but is about setting a higher goal and achieving more. It’s about competing against yourself, against the others, pushing your limits.
And yes I know figure skating is about technique and so are most of the other sports!

There is a difference between racing to break the wire first and setting a new record, and judging a contestant on his technique as he dives off the platform with a new and innovative dive.

In figure skating, I do not appreciate uncontrolled speed and I hate it when a skater known for speed suddenly slows the speed in order to prepare for a difficult jump. That damn music gets in the way. It should be taken out of the sport.

Joe

 

[Penny]

Forget the impossibles. I would just like to see our world champion man do a nice big clean triple axel. I can't think of any male skater right now who is consistently doing good triple axel. It so makes one miss Brian Boitano and Todd Eldredge.

 

[antmanb]

Forget the impossibles. I would just like to see our world champion man do a nice big clean triple axel. I can't think of any male skater right now who is consistently doing good triple axel. It so makes one miss Brian Boitano and Todd Eldredge.

Well both Yags and Pluschenko who between them have held the world title ever since the era of Eldredge (up until Lambiel) both had/have beautiful big soaring triple axels.

And while Lambiel might not hit the jump with a 100% success rate, there is nothing wrong with the jump when he lands it...caller making a bad decisions, notwithstanding.

Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

While I love to see a good 3A and Johnny Weir, when he does it ,is the one to watch for distance from takeoff to landing. Todd also covered distance. I really can' remember others except for Yags and Plush who were up/down jumpers and little distance jumpers.

Joe

 

[Zuranthium]

it's a double --- look again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxMFJuZgc1w

Oops, nm, it really is. Looked weird the first time I saw it. With the low height and the way he lands with his arm position, it looks like he'd broken out of the jump and done a single.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I've seen Rohene LIVE at MidAtlantics 2005 and he can be dynamic with his jumps. I also saw him LIVE in Stl Louis Nats where he melted.

If he hits the jumps this coming Nats, he will definitely be on the podium. I don't normally predict winners but I do think of podii, and I've certainly put in the 'if' .

Joe