"Impossible" Jumps

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I
Saldy COP doesn't note the difficulty of doing a jump in the opposite direction.

Ant

Jumps in both directions are extremely difficult in figure skating at the triiple level. I should think the CoP could at least award a bonus for such feats.

But if a skater planned jumps in opposite directions, and executed one successfully and the next only a double. Still difficult, but .....

Joe

 

[Dibs]

I think Matt Savoie also did a hydroblade into a triple.

I'm pretty sure he hydrobladed into a triple axel at the Olympics and in years past as well. I was impressed!

 

[Mathman]

Do you know how we can suggest it to the ISU? It would be an idea.

On the main page of the ISU web site you can click on "Contact" (the last menu item on the left) and send them an email. I have done that several times, and I always get an answer. Sometimes the answer is along the lines of "thank you for your interest in figure skating," but sometimes they actually respond to the comments that I made.

BTW, they always address me as "Ms." Maybe they just naturally assume that everyone who cares about skating is female.

 

[Zuranthium]

I think last season he was attempting a reverse double axel/normal rotation 3 sal sequence.

Here is a practice clip of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxMFJuZgc1w

He does a reverse double axel/reverse half loop/side hop to the left/normal triple salchow.

That's a reverse single Axle.

 

[janka]

I wonder, how many emails must be sent so they really take something in consideration...Or they answer whatever they answer but are not having any intention to do anything about it.

 

[icesk8erdude4e]

Reverse Jumps

Yeah it is extremely difficult. I am left handed so I skate to the right, right now off the ice i'm working on a double flip double lutz but its hard to do that double lutz in the opposite direction, its true that COP doens't realize how difficult that is.... BUT

Just a COP comparison

Normal Short Program Combination for most men:
Triple lutz-triple toe loop 10.6
Triple flip-triple lutz 11.7
So if anyone could do that, then they could easily seperate themselves without a quad.

Yeah skaters can do reverse jumps but they never use them in competition where they would really count. Some skaters can do some pretty incredible things they just never put them in their competitive programmes.

Example: Emanual Sandhu can do a quadruple toe-triple toe-triple loop-triple loop i've seen him practice it but he could never do that in a competition, he can barely handle his standard competitive programmes.

Evegenny Plushenko can do a quadruple lutz but he never does it in competition and Brian Joubert can do a quadruple flip and doesn't use it in competition.

ON tramp I can do a quadruple axel-quadruple toe loop-triple toe loop combination quite easily its a tramp lol!

 

[Mathman]

On tramp I can do a quadruple axel-quadruple toe loop-triple toe loop combination quite easily!

= 26.0 CoP points.

 

[Zuranthium]

I would be amazed if anyone ever did a Quad Axle or Quint. I wonder if it's even physically possible without some kind of super-steroid use.

I think a Quad/Quad combination might be possible if someone learned to land the first Quad flawlessly with a ton of outflowing speed for the next jump. Although, again, I'd be really surprised if anyone ever got a Quad/Quad consistent enough to do for competition.

 

[Oscilla]

I think a Quad/Quad combination might be possible if someone learned to land the first Quad flawlessly with a ton of outflowing speed for the next jump. Although, again, I'd be really surprised if anyone ever got a Quad/Quad consistent enough to do for competition.

There are reports from the Cup of China on FSU that Chenjang Li is landing 4/4's in practice.

 

[Zuranthium]

Well there we are!

Probably a 4Sal/4Toe, I assume? I would definitely want to see a video to check if the second jump was full rotated.

It would be incredible to see somebody with a reliable Quad/Quad combo. I definitely believe the next step of evolution for Men's jumping is going to be having TWO different Quads in your repertoire (with 3 or 4 total planned for the program). So far Timothy Goebel is the only guy to have reached that level and sadly he lost it after a few years.

 

[Mafke]

It would be incredible to see somebody with a reliable Quad/Quad combo. I definitely believe the next step of evolution for Men's jumping

It would be incredible to see someone with three heads, but somehow it's not high on my 'to see' list.

"the next step of evolution for Men's jumping"

Exactly right, the next step of evolution for Mens' jumping, not Mens' _skating_, but mens' jumping. Meanwhile spins, footwork and everything else will continue their rapid de-evolution towards total unwatchability...

I don't think we're going to see much more quad expansion soon (I hope!) because except for Plushenko, quads are a sometime thing for most skaters.
I think someone wrote that male skaters seem to have them sort of consistently for about two years before they start losing them.

 

[antmanb]

That's a reverse single Axle.

So it is...he has nevertheless done the sequence with a reverse double axel too...just can't find footage of it.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Well there we are!

Probably a 4Sal/4Toe, I assume? I would definitely want to see a video to check if the second jump was full rotated.

It would be incredible to see somebody with a reliable Quad/Quad combo. I definitely believe the next step of evolution for Men's jumping is going to be having TWO different Quads in your repertoire (with 3 or 4 total planned for the program). So far Timothy Goebel is the only guy to have reached that level and sadly he lost it after a few years.

Don't forget Brian Joubert recently at the French Masters landed both quad toe and quad sal in the LP.

Also hasn't Dambier also landed quad sal and quad toe in an LP?

Ant

 

[bostonskater]

Several guys have been trying quad-quads in practice. Chenjiang Li is probably the closest to trying one in competition. I predict you'll see one from someone before long.

I've seen young guys do a triple jump landing into an upright spin. It looks cool. CoP would probably give it negative GOE. :scowl:

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Like all jumps, a quad quad, for me, would just be another trick. However, if it is done with the music and there is great flow in and out of each segment then it rises above the 'trick' appearance, and is a signifant part of the program.

Fans of figure skating insist that there be music to perform these elements but many of those same fans disregard the music in favor of the trick. I don't.

Joe

 

[Zuranthium]

Well, Joe, I think we simply must recognize that Skating is a sport, and sport is about pushing the human body as far as it can go. The entire reason that sports are important are because they reflect the human spirit. Great athletes show us how remarkable the human being can be and what we can accomplish with devout dedication.

Skating is one of the most complex sports and is also different in that it has the potential to become ART. If someone does nothing but jump around all day long they are going to get nailed in other aspects of the grading. A Quad/Quad would definitely be a HUGE accomplishment, though, and should be greatly respected.

Don't forget Brian Joubert recently at the French Masters landed both quad toe and quad sal in the LP.

Did he replace his second Quad Toe with the Quad Sal, or do 3 Quads total?

 

[SeaniBu]

I think we simply must recognize that Skating is a sport, and sport is about pushing the human body as far as it can go. The entire reason that sports are important are because they reflect the human spirit. Great athletes show us how remarkable the human being can be and what we can accomplish with devout dedication.

Skating is one of the most complex sports and is also different in that it has the potential to become ART.

Got to be one of my favorite posts!:agree:

 

[LegalGirl82]

Here list all Jumps/ Jump Combinations that you'd like to see performed which are impossible.

The Pamchenko.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Carry on...

 

[debdelilah]

Skating is one of the most complex sports and is also different in that it has the potential to become ART. If someone does nothing but jump around all day long they are going to get nailed in other aspects of the grading. A Quad/Quad would definitely be a HUGE accomplishment, though, and should be greatly respected.

I understand that sports are about pushing the limits of the body, but generally they don't do that beyond a certain point. Marathon runners run 26 miles--and there are risks to that, like to all sports; some people have had heart attacks the day after the race. But they don't run 50 miles at a time--they don't try to do that. They could try if they wanted, but it would be so physically destructive it's not worth it.

I have relatives who have had joint replacements, and it's a serious thing for them--I see it as a serious thing. Knowing how many people have been injured training quads, I really don't want them to become expected jumps. Especially not for teenagers who can't predict the long-term consequences of them.

 

[SeaniBu]

I understand that sports are about pushing the limits of the body, but generally they don't do that beyond a certain point.

:yes:
I think (hope) that is recognized in the fact there are "limits" defined in skating competitions as well. Form the time limits to disqualifying for doing something that is unnecessarily dangerous or just not FS (also the aspect of no points). Athletics is about reaching as far, not so much as beyond. A 4x4 jump would would likely be sloppy and not done well anyway, it would be better to get the points for something clean.

I love the fact persons like Joesitz are pushing the artistic and persons like Zuranthium are stressing the "nature" of "sports." I think it shows they are both recognizing each others points yet (possibly inadvertantly) keeping a balance between the two. If you loose the drive to try and go that little bit further then the sports aspect starts to suffer, likewise the push to go to far and the artistic element will suffer. FS should allow for the perfect formula.

An athlete can always back down from trying something new - it doesn't sound to athletic though mainly to them. But they can also attempt to do something better than it has been done before. I think the focus should be on the "better" before the "new" - now what comes into question for some might be, is an athlete going to want to try it anyway? probably

My thought is that the quint or a 4x4 is not going to be to important until they start nailing the single quad combo with any consistency / clean. And I don't think that you can stop them from trying what they want to. People might be saying "I would like to see" but I don't think that means they are "pushing them into doing it." I would like to see avalanche surfing but that does not mean that is going to become a sport ON THE SAME NOTE yet people are doing it, That is the nature of competition and athletics.

I am sure someone can explain this better then me. I'm on / off a tangent again. :sheesh: