In what order do you learn S-steps (choctaws)?

[sampaguita]

Our group lesson coach demonstrated a (right) forward inside choctaw/S-step, and said that was the easiest. I had (still have) difficulty with the Schaefer push onto the back outside edge, no matter if I started from the right or left foot. I asked her if the outside choctaw was easier, and she said no, because that's a gold dance move.

Well today I tried (right) forward outside S-step and was actually able to complete two lobes. I found it to be much easier.

Is there any consensus on how which S-steps are easier and which are not? For 3-turns/mohawks, it's a lot more intuitive, but for turns which involve both directions like the S-step, what makes a turn difficult?

 

[Flying Feijoa]

Our group lesson coach demonstrated a (right) forward inside choctaw/S-step, and said that was the easiest. I had (still have) difficulty with the Schaefer push onto the back outside edge, no matter if I started from the right or left foot. I asked her if the outside choctaw was easier, and she said no, because that's a gold dance move.

Well today I tried (right) forward outside S-step and was actually able to complete two lobes. I found it to be much easier.

Is there any consensus on how which S-steps are easier and which are not? For 3-turns/mohawks, it's a lot more intuitive, but for turns which involve both directions like the S-step, what makes a turn difficult?

As you go up the levels of ice dance tests, FI-closed and FI-open appear first, in Blues and Kilian respectively which are both Skate Canada Level 8. FO-closed is in Quickstep which is Level 9. However the way these test levels are organised is pretty arbitrary, I think previous classifications may have put them all in the same level (and anyway, a dance's difficulty isn't determined by one step). Difficulty depends on the individual too... In StarSkate Skills tests I believe they just ask for FI and BO S-steps, no specification on open/closed, probably since the most common types in freestyle are FI-open and BO-closed. I'm not even sure if it's possible to do a BO-open without changing edge...

Note that it's one thing to attempt a turn, having it called clean is another question (no flat/wrong edge, scratching etc.)

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Our group lesson coach demonstrated a (right) forward inside choctaw/S-step, and said that was the easiest. I had (still have) difficulty with the Schaefer push onto the back outside edge, no matter if I started from the right or left foot. I asked her if the outside choctaw was easier, and she said no, because that's a gold dance move.

Well today I tried (right) forward outside S-step and was actually able to complete two lobes. I found it to be much easier.

Is there any consensus on how which S-steps are easier and which are not? For 3-turns/mohawks, it's a lot more intuitive, but for turns which involve both directions like the S-step, what makes a turn difficult?

Most people, at least figure skaters, do not complete choctaws cleanly. Even if there is a tiny 0.0001% on the wrong edge, it's not a clean step. Most people rise up fully in the knee and loss the edges, some forgot to bend on one of the edges, some just step flat.

To get a choctaw clean is very difficult, but in terms of easiness one of the general consensus is backwards outside open choktaw is probably the easiest, and probably the choctaw thar skaters are most likely to do cleanly if they are doing any of them (other than the inside step forwards to outside with turned out hips, but even that most don't do cleanly).

 

[WednesdayMarch]

Our group lesson coach demonstrated a (right) forward inside choctaw/S-step, and said that was the easiest. I had (still have) difficulty with the Schaefer push onto the back outside edge, no matter if I started from the right or left foot. I asked her if the outside choctaw was easier, and she said no, because that's a gold dance move.

Well today I tried (right) forward outside S-step and was actually able to complete two lobes. I found it to be much easier.

Is there any consensus on how which S-steps are easier and which are not? For 3-turns/mohawks, it's a lot more intuitive, but for turns which involve both directions like the S-step, what makes a turn difficult?

Don't forget that it's not just the direction and edges, it's whether the S-step is "open" or "closed". And whether you're doing it on its own, in a step sequence - or dance - or with/without a partner. There's a whole world of S-steps out there!

 

[gliese]

Don't forget that it's not just the direction and edges, it's whether the S-step is "open" or "closed". And whether you're doing it on its own, in a step sequence - or dance - or with/without a partner. There's a whole world of S-steps out there!

What makes an S-step "open" vs "closed"? Like what is the difference?

 

[Vicki7]

Back inside as it’s what you use to get into a 1 foot spin. Coach blew my mind when he told me that, as I can’t do any of the others!

 

[kolyadafan2002]

What makes an S-step "open" vs "closed"? Like what is the difference?

Definitions | Ice-dance.com

www.ice-dance.com

See point 13 for the different types of S-step.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

We won't even get started on the Swing and the Cross Open Choctaws LOL!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I recall being a bit astonished at the Choctaw at the start of Malinin’s program at around the :46 mark here since this step seems rare … https://youtu.be/RvTQEgWIUM8

Going from a RBI to LFO except the left foot tucks underneath the right foot (as opposed to a typical RBI-LFO in a ccw forward spin entry).


He doesn’t execute it particularly cleanly (his left foot comes down a bit early and it’s kinda rocker-like) but is this type of Choctaw even listed? Theoretically a RBI to LFO with the left foot crossing over the front of the boot is also doable albeit even more awkward to execute.

 

[gkelly]

Back outside to forward inside is in the women's Ten-Fox steps and is relatively easy compared to the forward-to-backward turns.

But freestylers would learn the BI to FO spin entrance earliest.