Inflated Scores

[Ladskater]

I noticed many people here are commenting that some of the scores were inflated. Well, that often happens at Nationals in an Olympic year. I remember watching the US championships in 1988 when Brian Boitano got a string of 6.0s for a rather flawed performance. Even Dick Button commented that it was a bit inflated. It's really nothing new for the judges to be a little generous before the Olympics. The team looks great. I am sure they will make us all proud.

 

[Mrs. P]

I noticed many people here are commenting that some of the scores were inflated. Well, that often happens at Nationals in an Olympic year. I remember watching the US championships in 1988 when Brian Boitano got a string of 6.0s for a rather flawed performance. Even Dick Button commented that it was a bit inflated. It's really nothing new for the judges to be a little generous before the Olympics. The team looks great. I am sure they will make us all proud.

I don't think I debate that these programs are great. Chan and Rochette both put down some solid programs with lots of triples. I think everyone is just wondering what those performances would do internationally.

I feel the U.S Nationals judging (so far) doesn't seem super inflated. You have Frank Carroll being quoted that Lysacek isn't getting high enough PCS scores to send the Olympic folks a message.

 

[stickle]

I don't think I debate that these programs are great. Chan and Rochette both put down some solid programs with lots of triples. I think everyone is just wondering what those performances would do internationally.

I feel the U.S Nationals judging (so far) doesn't seem super inflated. You have Frank Carroll being quoted that Lysacek isn't getting high enough PCS scores to send the Olympic folks a message.

I saw Lysacek's performance and thought his scores were plenty high. I wasn't particularly impressed with him. Or Weir.

 

[sk8rdad]

I don't think I debate that these programs are great. Chan and Rochette both put down some solid programs with lots of triples. I think everyone is just wondering what those performances would do internationally.

I feel the U.S Nationals judging (so far) doesn't seem super inflated. You have Frank Carroll being quoted that Lysacek isn't getting high enough PCS scores to send the Olympic folks a message.

Abbott scored about 26 points more than his personal best internationally. While I have not seen his skate and it certianly sounds like he skated lights out from the report I would still say that the US marks are every bit as inflated as everyone is claiming other Nationals are.

 

[i love to skate]

Yeah, it's not as if anyone was trying to hide the fact that the scores were inflated. The broadcasters said it live on the air, it was in countless newspaper articles, and even the skaters said they didn't deserve the marks. However, all of our champions laid down incredible skates so it wasn't as if they skated like crap to get those marks either.

 

[wonderlen3000]

Abbott scored about 26 points more than his personal best internationally. While I have not seen his skate and it certianly sounds like he skated lights out from the report I would still say that the US marks are every bit as inflated as everyone is claiming other Nationals are.

Actually, of all the nationals completed so far, U.S was the most fairly judged and close to what the international judges will give. Abott skated clean and light out on both his SP and LP. His short was only 87+ and given what Evan and Dai got at GPF, it was fair. Chan on the other hand, , he stepped out of 3A and only did 3+2 and got over 90. Plushy at least did 4+3 and Russian national give out additional 4 points for doing a quad.
Abbott LP had a quad and 8 triples, and Chan with 8 triples and step out and some shaky landing still managed to score 177+ score.

 

[DesertRoad]

Abbott scored about 26 points more than his personal best internationally. While I have not seen his skate and it certianly sounds like he skated lights out from the report I would still say that the US marks are every bit as inflated as everyone is claiming other Nationals are.

That's because Abbott skated that much better than he has ever skated. Perhaps it behooves you to actually watch all those skates in question before you declare it a case of overscoring. And really, it's disingenuous to bring up a competition in another country as some sort of justification. "So-and-so is doing it so why can't I" is an excuse that shouldn't be used by anyone past seven. Of course, it doesn't even work for seven year olds.

 

[colleen o'neill]

I think we just have to shrug it off .

No-one likes it . Everyone knows it happens. If one country does it the others sort of have to follow , so as not to put their skaters at a disadvantage, in case the international judges are influenced by the inflations. But really ,everyone's in on the joke... ( sigh)

I've taped the NBC coverage but haven't been able to watch yet, however , it seems to me that the US has a number of skaters who are competitive with each other at the top level. This would make it more difficult for the judges to play around....In Canada , if Patrick is on at all , there's no-one who can touch him at the moment. His competition is all at the international level. If messages must be sent ( sigh again), that's where they have to go. Everyone knows he's had a hell of a year , but he's definitely on the way back, and notice is being served. I'm sure they don't want the international judges to write him off beforehand based on his one appearance at Skate Canada.

I wish it didn't happen , but won't let it spoil my enjoyment. Just glad to see Patrick looking more like himself.

 

[inside edge]

That's because Abbott skated that much better than he has ever skated. Perhaps it behooves you to actually watch all those skates in question before you declare it a case of overscoring. And really, it's disingenuous to bring up a competition in another country as some sort of justification. "So-and-so is doing it so why can't I" is an excuse that shouldn't be used by anyone past seven. Of course, it doesn't even work for seven year olds.

:yes: :yes:

 

[ks777]

I didn't think Abbott was overscored. Chan was for sure.

 

[n_halifax]

I didn't think Abbott was overscored. Chan was for sure.

I have to agree 100% on this one.

 

[i love to skate]

Actually, of all the nationals completed so far, U.S was the most fairly judged and close to what the international judges will give. Abott skated clean and light out on both his SP and LP. His short was only 87+ and given what Evan and Dai got at GPF, it was fair. Chan on the other hand, , he stepped out of 3A and only did 3+2 and got over 90. Plushy at least did 4+3 and Russian national give out additional 4 points for doing a quad.
Abbott LP had a quad and 8 triples, and Chan with 8 triples and step out and some shaky landing still managed to score 177+ score.

In the short Patrick did not step out of his axel...he landed it cleanly.

 

[DesertRoad]

Actually, after studying the protocols, I find that Chan's only overscored about 5 points in the SP.

His 3F should have -2 GOE, instead of -0.5. His 3Lz/2T had a slightly wonky landing on the 3Lz, it should have a lower GOE than the +1 he got, maybe +0.5 taking into account his difficult entrance. The hefty +GOE on his footwork sequences, however, are richly deserved. As for his PCS, there are some components where imperfect jumps should lower the value as per some ISU memo or other, but overall, Chan's superiority in his skating was on full and vivid display, and at most I'd lower his PCS to 40. The things judges should look for in the PCS are spelled out by the ISU regulations, and Chan exemplified all of them in this particular performance.

There's a lot of focus on Chan's botched jumps in the SP, but people overlook the fact that he got level 4 on all his other elements. Those points add up. Throw in the good GOE for his footwork and the well deserved PCS, and I'd say a score of around 85 is fair. So 90.14 really isn't that outrageous.

 

[justaskatingfan]

I didn't think Abbott was overscored. Chan was for sure.

Has it occurred to you that maybe the judges ran out of good excuses to score Abbott higher? - :think:

 

[jettasian]

There's a lot of focus on Chan's botched jumps in the SP, but people overlook the fact that he got level 4 on all his other elements. Those points add up. Throw in the good GOE for his footwork and the well deserved PCS, and I'd say a score of around 85 is fair. So 90.14 really isn't that outrageous.

Thank you.
Whenever Chan gets high scores, people will auto conclude that he's overscored. They never seem to see that Chan gets good scores on all other elements, the spins, the footwork, the speeds, the choreography etc.

I wish more people will see the score includes the WHOLE PACKAGE, not just JUMPS JUMPS JUMPS! Can they see beyond the jumps? It's hard to say!

 

[shine]

Thank you.
Whenever Chan gets high scores, people will auto conclude that he's overscored. They never seem to see that Chan gets good scores on all other elements, the spins, the footwork, the speeds, the choreography etc.

I wish more people will see the score includes the WHOLE PACKAGE, not just JUMPS JUMPS JUMPS! Can they see beyond the jumps? It's hard to say!

Chan is not the only skater in the world that has good non-jump elements. And I think some fans get a little carried away and think that Chan is head and shoulders above any other skater in doing these non-jump elements. I love Chan, but the fact that he scored 2 points higher with his free skate than Abbott did (which was a bit overscored already) at US Nats with his respective free skate tells me that Chan was indeed very overscored, period. And 90 for his SP? You've got to be kidding if you don't think that's overscoring.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

1. Do we think Chan would've gotten that score in international competition? Do we think that another technical caller would've given both step sequences level four? Abbott's PCS might have dropped internationally, but given how awesome he was, I don't think by much (and frankly, we'd be complaining about his low PCS to high heaven - see NHK and GPF threads if you don't believe me).

2. Is it normal to see inflation at Nationals? Yep. Witness Laura Lepisto: she scored 106.24 for a free program containing one (!) credited triple. Travel over to Switzerland and see Sarah Meier scoring nearly 120 for a performance with three triples. For comparison, Akiko Suzuki landed 7 at the GPF and scored 116. Miki Ando landed four in the same event and scored only .71 points higher than Meier.

3. So what makes Canada different? Well, imo - two things
a) Canada's hosting the Olympics. Fairly self explanatory.

b) It might just be me, but there's a degree of calculation in the scores that bugs me. It almost seems as if the judges are trying to remind the world that Rochette, Chan and D/D are medal contenders (Virtue/Moir's scores by comparison, are quite reasonable in terms of inflation, and no one needs reminding that they're top tier contenders).

 

[i love to skate]

b) It might just be me, but there's a degree of calculation in the scores that bugs me. It almost seems as if the judges are trying to remind the world that Rochette, Chan and D/D are medal contenders (Virtue/Moir's scores by comparison, are quite reasonable in terms of inflation, and no one needs reminding that they're top tier contenders).

Didn't Chan, Rochette, and D/D remind the world that they are medal contenders through their skating? All three put in amazing performances - with Joannie and D/D skating the best they have in a very long time. Chan is starting to get back to his form.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Yes. But their scores didn't match what I saw, even with Nationally tinted glasses on.

 

[i love to skate]

Yes. But their scores didn't match what I saw, even with Nationally tinted glasses on.

Well it happened at Russian Nationals, Swiss Nationals, Japanese Nationals, Finnish Nationals, etc. The US Nationals still have two events to go so there could very well be inflation there. If you knock off the 10% of inflation at Canadians the scores are pretty much on par. One has to remember that each of the top skaters hasn't skated like that all year long either - so they are going to be higher than they have received for the season.