Irina and Sasha may not have beaten Shizuka even with clean performance!

[Mathman]

Thus you are on my ignore list,...

Speaking for myself only, I have never been able to stick to my resolve to ignore all those people on my ignore list.

The problem is, you get a little message that says, "Your arch enemy just posted, do you want to read it?"

I can usually hold out, oh, about ten minutes, before I give in and say, oh all right, let's see what this idiot is blabbering about now!

MM

 

[hockeyfan228]

Because that specific judging panel saw Arakawa land 3/3's all week, I think would have been the saving grace for Arakawa between a clean Cohen and an Arakawa with a solid 3Lo. Otherwise, I think Cohen's performance would have been as overrated in comparison as her Dortmund LP was, taking three ordinals (likely on pre scores) from a clearly superior Arakawa.

If Slutskaya had skated a clean program, landing her opening lutz combo instead of landing atilt and bailing on the second jump, had landed a solid 3F instead of one with an even more tilted landing, and hadn't doubled the last jump in combo or fallen on the 3Lo, I think the judges would have given her the gold, regardless of the quality of Arakawa's skate (with or without a clean 3Lo), especially skating last.

And she thought she was rubbed of silver after four errors/downgrades on jumps? Yikes. But it's not surprising, when former World medallist Elena Buianova (Vodorezova), Gedevanishvili's coach, was quoted in the Russian press saying that Cohen can't jump, and that she was held up artificially. I"m sure there were a number of coaches and officials that told her the same thing.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Actually I think Irina replaced the double at the end of her triple lutz combo with one on the end of another jump. If I recall she ended up doing the triple sal with two doubles, a double at the end of the double flip(which was supposed to be a triple), and a double toe on the end of her final triple toe. So that particular ommision did not matter to her scores.

 

[hockeyfan228]

Slutskaya got the same GOE on both the opening 3Lz, which had a tilted landing and the 3T/2T at the end of the program; imagine the GOE she would have gotten on the huge lutz if she had landed it cleanly, especially in combination.

 

[SeaniBu]

Speaking for myself only, I have never been able to stick to my resolve to ignore all those people on my ignore list.

The problem is, you get a little message that says, "Your arch enemy just posted, do you want to read it?"

I can usually hold out, oh, about ten minutes, before I give in and say, oh all right, let's see what this idiot is blabbering about now!

MM

Agreed, I think it is kinda pointless. If there is anything questionable it will be wiped off anyway. Reminds me of the old comment, "Are your beliefs so unstable that another's ideas can't even be heard for fear that your values will diminish entirely? Or are you just afraid of being wrong."

Speaking as a person who has a couple people here who I don't FEEL like me, I haven't put them on an ignore list because they also have some great comments, whether it is all the time or just once and a while. I am never afraid to learn (even if it is another point of view and most of you know more than I), and not to pretentious to think I am ALWAYS right. I don't like it when people make accusations against my integrity or values, but I still feel they MIGHT have something worthy down the line to say.

Back on topic, it was rather clear that out of the 3 ladies, Shi-chan had the components to win. It was a comment made by one of the commentators - Z or B. Shizuka even went 2t (I believe it was a toe) on a 3t in her long. I think Sasha and Iri's are the only ones you could crunch numbers on due to questionability -IMO I think it went the way it should.

Egh, there goes another lunch....

 

[Mathman]

Seanibu, I like you. More to the point, I appreciate your contributions to the board. I apologize for giving you an inappropriate welcome. (I just didn't know what to make of the first couple of posts, LOL.)

Mathman

 

[Zuranthium]

First of all I was using the same "standard" being applied to Cohen, if we were hypotheticaly giving her an extra 0.4 per component score with the fall and the semi-fall. Lambiel's quad semi-fall was the same as Cohen's triple flip. Stumbled out of, hands down, some judges giving -2, some -3, so if Cohen would that treated as a fall on PCS, so would Lambiel. So if Cohen's were to lose the same points on PCS as a fall, the same would apply to Lambiel. I never said I neccessarily thought that is what a skater would lose for those mistakes however, I was using the most generous hypothetical to show Cohen would not have won even with that very generous hypothetical boost in PCS, and I only used Lambiel and Buttle as examples to show the probable genorisity of it.

So what you're trying to say is "if the skaters skated clean, who would win?"

In which case if you're projecting a perfect program for Lambiel then you need to do one for Plushenko and add at least 4 points to his total score for the Flip jump that he doubled. When you do that he still ends up winning.

And if you're still trying to argue who would win with regards to clean Sasha vs. Shizuka doubling a couple jumps, then you're still wrong. Going by your own little system you would have to add +5.3 points for her first failed jumping pass (it was supposed to be a 3 Lutz/2 Toe), +2.86 points for the majorly flawed Flip, and +3.2 for PCS. That puts her ahead.

But what's the point of asking that second question? We all know that a clean skate wins over a flawed skate, if the skaters are at similar levels. The judges will seeminly always adjust the PCS ("artistic mark") to make it so, as we saw with Kimmie's PCS at worlds or Sarah Hughes' artistic mark at Olympics 2002. It would actually be worthwhile to assess which of two skaters would win with clean vs. clean programs (as I talked about in my opening).

Anyway I have neither the time nor energy for this silly merry-go-round conversation about nothing that you seem to like. Thus you are my ignore list, so dont waste your time with a response to me since I wont see it nor read it.

Wow...apparently die-hard slutskaya fans are just as big of b*tches as she is. I haven't been posting here for long but I've already noticed that you're quite aggravating without purpose and many people seem to dislike you. Ignore me if you want - it doesn't do much. You're only closing your own mind.

 

[Zuranthium]

If Slutskaya had skated a clean program, landing her opening lutz combo instead of landing atilt and bailing on the second jump, had landed a solid 3F instead of one with an even more tilted landing, and hadn't doubled the last jump in combo or fallen on the 3Lo, I think the judges would have given her the gold, regardless of the quality of Arakawa's skate (with or without a clean 3Lo), especially skating last.

I agree. Her GOE's would have been higher (except for on the spiral sequence) and they would probably have boosted the PCS mark by about 5; putting her very slightly ahead of an Arakawa with 7 triples.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Wow Zuranthium with two messages in a row, probably blowing a little tantrum that somebody would dare disagree with her/him. Am I glad I had this nuisance on ignore and did not have to sift through whatever long winded garbarge was just posted.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Slutskaya got the same GOE on both the opening 3Lz, which had a tilted landing and the 3T/2T at the end of the program; imagine the GOE she would have gotten on the huge lutz if she had landed it cleanly, especially in combination.

Yeah her first two jumps were not landed as well as she can do them. The whole performance was not up to what she is capable of though, even aside from the two mistakes. That is why I think she had to be perfect to win. Her skating in general was past its best before date, she peaked a bit too early in the year.

 

[Mathman]

Hey S-fan, you can safely click on post #68, just not #67, LOL.

Hey Z, the funny thing is that Slutskayafan isn't really even a Slutskaya fan.

(Just doing my little bit to keep things lively on the board -- what happened to that little devil emoticon we used to have?)

Mathman

 

[slutskayafan21]

Hey S-fan, you can safely click on post #68, just not #67, LOL.

Hey Z, the funny thing is that Slutskayafan isn't really even a Slutskaya fan.

(Just doing my little bit to keep things lively on the board -- what happened to that little devil emoticon we used to have?)

Mathman

I am an Irina fan!! :scowl:

 

[Mathman]

Sorry, I will rephrase. Judging by the analytic nature of most of his posts on Irina's performances, it seems to me that Slutskayafan21 is not one of those rabid worshippers that give fandom a bad name.

Rather, he is capable of seeing strenghts and weaknesses in the performances both of his favorite, Irina, and in her competitors, many of whom he also likes and praises in due measure.

Indeed, this very thread is an example, arguing that Shizuka's fine Olympic effort was perhaps stronger than Irina or Sasha could have matched even if they had skated without error.

MM

 

[slutskayafan21]

Sorry, I will rephrase. Judging by the analytic nature of most of his posts on Irina's performances, it seems to me that Slutskayafan21 is not one of those rabid worshippers that give fandom a bad name.

Rather, he is capable of seeing strenghts and weaknesses in the performances both of his favorite, Irina, and in her competitors, many of whom he also likes and praises in due measure.

Indeed, this very thread is an example, arguing that Shizuka's fine Olympic effort was perhaps stronger than Irina or Sasha could have matched even if they had skated without error.

MM

You are probably being a bit too kind here, but thanks nonetheless.

 

[Zuranthium]

Hey S-fan, you can safely click on post #68, just not #67, LOL.

Hey Z, the funny thing is that Slutskayafan isn't really even a Slutskaya fan

This place is fun.

 

[SeaniBu]

Shizuka - no question

Just reviewed the Olys "vids" last night. No question about Shi-chan's win, ZERO. "She left the door open" With a 2tl and a couple of questionable "mistakes," but NO ONE went thru that door and left her with a 7.5+ win. Again, no question unless you live in the "land of the what ifs" where time machines are real.

The questions I would feel are substantial are Sasha & Irina. ? I don't NOW think that Sasha's performance after those 3 - 4 mistakes (3 definite) was all that inspiring. Not nearly as "spring back to life as Irina's. Some of the scores seemed a little bit generous to me (what do I really know though).

And the Irina throwing her metal away comment I believe is a total .....#^&@*.. fabrication. Not sure about John or the sourse who reproduced the comment - it just happened to Mike Dougles.She was surprised for a moment, and then remorseful - being a person who's partial job it is to "read" people and subdue conflict (funny because I am so good at causing it) - she was not angry, faking (except a smile in the Kiss and Cry) or even unsatisfied. Just a lot of "what if" and "I hope my family and fans are still happy for me."

 

[Spun Silver]

Slutskayafan is a he?

 

[soogar]

I just watched Shiz's program again and it was breathtaking. Just perfect, flawless skating with an Ina Bauer moment that will be remembered forever.

 

[SeaniBu]

Slutskayafan is a he?

Referring to moi?

I love them all honestly, but some more than others. And the ones with flaws are the best. Some "masochistic" reason I really fall for "brats." Particularly the ones who are good to their family, overcome physical restrictions, and tell the Dr. "I am the exception" proving them wrong. Those can only inspire those with possibly "down to earth" morals to do the same but better.