Irina Article In Russian

[R.D.]

This type of comment from Slutskaya should not be surprising to anyone. She always struck me as someone like this, hence why I didn't like her in the first place.

 

[krenseby]

I've always felt that although Kwan would get the highest Presentation scores, Irina's presentation scores would be so close that it made Kwans appear negligible. Irina, for me, was always boring and those scores seemed always to hold her up. There was nothing in Irina's performance that I could say wow to except the jumps and that was technical. Through no fault of her own she always had bad line in performing.


I just don't agree, for much of the reason above and in this case a very sloppy skate by Irina. JMO.

Joe

Artistic scores reflect skating skills (line, carriage) and performance (passion, energy). Irina may not have much of the first, but she has plenty of the second. That's why it's not right to assume that she is always inferior in the artistic department. It simply isn't true. Irina isn't simply a jump machine, she is also an artistic skater.(as far as energy and passion are concerned.)

 

[SeaniBu]

Right on krenseby way to stand up for Ira! I am behind you all the way.

At least she doesn't have over a thousand pairs of shoes when there are children with none.

 

[R.D.]

At least she doesn't have over a thousand pairs of shoes when there are children with none.

and...the Evidence??

 

[kyla2]

Irina

I don't know of any skater with a thousand pairs of shoes-so what's your point??? No one is accusing Irina of being greedy. Her generosity to her mother/family is one of her good points.

 

[SeaniBu]

"and...the Evidence??" - red dog

.... good point, haven't been to the house.

But what is "presented" as her house / apartment, could never fit. I wonder how she makes room for the dog too, now a thinking of a baby??? She must believe she'll fill Maria's skates.

Wait, I don't know if I get your point? Let me grab "a good beer" and think about it. :agree:

 

[IDLERACER]

The biggest thing I learned was: Irina had her tongue pierced!

She's pierced all over. Click HERE​

 

[antmanb]

I can understand why some people would be bitter about Oly disappointments, but there gets to be a point where people expect you to move on -- losing an OGM is not like losing a loved one. For example, I think many people would have been very sympathetic and understanding if, after Tonya pleaded guilty to (essentially) being an accessory after the fact, MK said that she felt she had been robbed of a chance to skate at Olys, but we would not feel the same way if she kept talking about it four years later.

To be fair nothing is as bad as losing a loved one. We'd all be pretty enlightened beings if nothing riled or upset us except for death. Since i don't think any of us can claim that level of enlightenment we'll still enter into debates about it and feel bad about things that aren't as important as others.

At the end of the day figure skating is just a sport - there are many more important things to do and discuss in life but we all choose to have a great interest in the sport and discuss it. To Irina i have no doubt that skating is her life and one of the most important things in her life (probably after her health and that of her mother) in the self indulgent moments that we have as human beings something like losing an olympic gold medal might feel as if its as bad as losing a loved one...then shortly after it we get some perspective and realise it isn't.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

In the moment -- yes. Not four years later.

Sorry did i miss somthing...did Irina in the latest article (i can't read the articles) say that she equated losing the gold medal to losing a loved one?

Ant

 

[antmanb]

There was a bad call in the last inning of the sixth game of the St. Louis/Kansas City World Series playoff that allowed Kansas City to get back in the series. That could be replayed over and over again on videotape, from every angle, and it wasn't even close.

In the SLC SP Kwan had a faulty landing on a 3F and possibly a flatz. Cohen had a flutz and an issue with closing the circle on her step sequence that I didn't see, but was described in many posts. Slutskaya had a serious break -- requiring a deduction -- between her steps and 3F and major travelling on at least one spin. Nonetheless, Slutskaya had the highest tech scores from six of nine judges, ties with Kwan from two, and lower tech scores from one judge, Hrachovcova (Slovak Republic). While not all judges deducted for Kwan's faulty 3F, not all judges deducted for Slutskaya's flaws, either. She lost by the pre score, which Kwan had dominated in most of their head-to-head competition. Kwan skated a high-quality Rachmaninoff SP, and there was no reason for her pre scores to have suffered. She received 5.9's across the board.

Slutskaya may feel wuzrobbed, but it is a highly debated wuzrobbed, not a given.

Absolutely - in this subjective sport there are usually good arguments ot be made, and i think you summarised them fairyl succintly above. Given that is the case, which arguments would you expect Slutskaya to put forward? AS i said before i think good and strong argument can be put forward for both sides, the ones you put forward depends on the side you are wanting to promote. The consequences of doing so play out if you choose a side...which is why(i had to get some Kwan love in somewhere!) Kwan has doen so well throughout her career because she's never said i should have won X,Y or Z, never made a bitter comment about a "loss" and hasn't bought into any BS put to her by others (including Frank Caroll), that's why she does so well from a PR point of view.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

That's an interesting point Ptichka.

Boy, I don't know, though. I can't think it is good for either athletes or "ordinary people" to go through life thinking the judges hate me, I never get a break, everybody is cheating for my opponent, they'll never let me win no matter what I do.

I remember when Michelle came in second to Tara in the 1998 Olympics. Frank Carroll made a concerted effort to tell Michelle, "Yes, a lot of your fans will be telling you, 'Oh Michelle, you were robbed, you should have got the gold medal.' But don't believe it. You skated well. So did Tara. That's sports."


MM

Really? I thought Frank Caroll started off (or certainly corroborated) the story that came out after Nagano that all Caroll should have done is slip the correct officials a bottle of vodka in order to get his girl to win?? Apologies if i've got that wrong - i was fairly sure frank had something to do with that story, even it it was perpetuating it. Which is why i always give kwan even greater kudos for not buing into the "you shoul dhave won" stories.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Artistic scores reflect skating skills (line, carriage) and performance (passion, energy). Irina may not have much of the first, but she has plenty of the second. That's why it's not right to assume that she is always inferior in the artistic department. It simply isn't true. Irina isn't simply a jump machine, she is also an artistic skater.(as far as energy and passion are concerned.)

In SLC there was no "artistic mark" it was a presentation mark. As far as i'm aware passion and energy were not criteria in the presentation mark. Things that Irina had as big plus points from the presntation mark were: speed, flow and ice coverage.

Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Krensby - Don't get me started on passion. Passion is in the mind of the beholder and is different with each eithnic background in general. It is not judgeable but it could be appreciated for any reason. Slutskaya's so-called passion in Tosca didn't come near the great American soprano Maria Callas.

I contend Callas had passion - not Slutskaya. Slutskaya had jumps. but if you saw passion in Slutskaya, so be it.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

Really? I thought Frank Caroll started off (or certainly corroborated) the story that came out after Nagano that all Caroll should have done is slip the correct officials a bottle of vodka in order to get his girl to win?

From what I read about it (in Christine Brennan's book, Edge of Glory, for instance), no, I think the story about the vodka was started by Tatiana Tarasova. It was only partly tongue-in-cheek. That is, she did feel that Frank Caroll had not played the political game as well as he should have on behalf of his skater.

As the story went, "What did the Russian judges care which American skater won? A bottle of Vodka would have tipped the scales in favor of Michelle."

I might be wrong, though. To this very day Frank is wuzrobbin' about Linda Fratianne.

MM

 

[attyfan]

From what I read about it (in Christine Brennan's book, Edge of Glory, for instance), no, I think the story about the vodka was started by Tatiana Tarasova. It was only partly tongue-in-cheek. That is, she did feel that Frank Caroll had not played the political game as well as he should have on behalf of his skater.

As the story went, "What did the Russian judges care which American skater won? A bottle of Vodka would have tipped the scales in favor of Michelle."

I might be wrong, though. To this very day Frank is wuzrobbin' about Linda Fratianne.

MM

Michelle has said that Frank was the guy who told her that Tara had a "spark" that she didn't, that she was not robbed, and that she should not to believe anyone who said she was.

 

[attyfan]

Sorry did i miss somthing...did Irina in the latest article (i can't read the articles) say that she equated losing the gold medal to losing a loved one?

Ant

No -- she did not equate it.

 

[mzheng]

From what I read about it (in Christine Brennan's book, Edge of Glory, for instance), no, I think the story about the vodka was started by Tatiana Tarasova. It was only partly tongue-in-cheek. That is, she did feel that Frank Caroll had not played the political game as well as he should have on behalf of his skater.

As the story went, "What did the Russian judges care which American skater won? A bottle of Vodka would have tipped the scales in favor of Michelle."

I might be wrong, though. To this very day Frank is wuzrobbin' about Linda Fratianne.

MM

Yes. I've read the same line of comments from TT. And immediately after the game Frank said to MK "ppl would tell you, you are robbed. But you are not. You skated very well, but Tara skated better."......I think this helped young MK's psych late. It was not until shortly before 2002 game, after MK splited with Frank, that I saw Frank on a TV interview, openly commented that 1998 was a very close call. Judges may look for different things, but he would've gave it to Kwan. And Peggy said the very same thing.

 

[antmanb]

From what I read about it (in Christine Brennan's book, Edge of Glory, for instance), no, I think the story about the vodka was started by Tatiana Tarasova. It was only partly tongue-in-cheek. That is, she did feel that Frank Caroll had not played the political game as well as he should have on behalf of his skater.

As the story went, "What did the Russian judges care which American skater won? A bottle of Vodka would have tipped the scales in favor of Michelle."

I might be wrong, though. To this very day Frank is wuzrobbin' about Linda Fratianne.

MM

Yes MM you're absolutely right - i think i've gotten my wires crossed about the Linda Fratianne wuzrobbin'!!!

Maybe my kwan love blinded me and i had to find something else to praise her for!!

Ant

 

[krenseby]

Re:

Krensby - Don't get me started on passion. Passion is in the mind of the beholder and is different with each eithnic background in general. It is not judgeable but it could be appreciated for any reason. Slutskaya's so-called passion in Tosca didn't come near the great American soprano Maria Callas.

I contend Callas had passion - not Slutskaya. Slutskaya had jumps. but if you saw passion in Slutskaya, so be it.

Joe

Well, performance is not just going through the motions. Performance is always powered by spirit and energy. Commentators seem to be able to perceive it in skaters. Sometimes they berate a skater for just going through the motions. At other times, they notice a skater's excitement and zing in a program. For example, I thought Sasha had a passionate performance of Dark Eyes during her Olympic SP. However, I thought that the same SP program with exactly the same elements was performed in a very flat and lethargic way at the Worlds. I thought the second time around the artistry was dulled by the skater's laziness, so I guess what I call "passion" seems to make a difference in artistry in general.

 

[FrenchLady]

In SLC there was no "artistic mark" it was a presentation mark. As far as i'm aware passion and energy were not criteria in the presentation mark. Things that Irina had as big plus points from the presntation mark were: speed, flow and ice coverage.

Ant

This is meant as a general comment. I don't want to enter a SLC Irina debate, lol.

I would say that passion and energy « alone » were not real criterias in the presentation mark. Passion and energy coupled with sloppy skating don’t have much value in the context of a skating competition. In that sense I would agree with you. OTOH, would you agree that we can make some links between passion and energy and, for example, amplitude of movement, expression of the character of the music, easyness and sureness? And those aspects WERE judged, and still are in the NJS. (For the record, I don’t equate passion and energy with being extroverted. Some introverted programs can be interpreted as very passionate.)

About speed : if I recall correctly, « speed » was a criteria in the technical mark. In the presentation mark, it was the « variation of speed » that was judged. I understand though that a program skated “slow – very slow – a little fast – slow “ would not necessarily score high !