Is Bullying an Equal Opportunity Problem?

[Bluebonnet]

Does Johnny even do a Biellman? I don't recall one. He is subject to the same physical limitations as the other guys who can't do one.

No. He never did. The reason that Johnny's name was mentioned by Kurt was because Johnny likes to act like a woman. It showed that Kurt thought it was a women's movement. Also, the question was directing to them - Kurt and Patrick, asking them to do a woman's move. So Kurt made that connection. Love Kurt! He's so smart on and off ice!

 

[Violet Bliss]

Of all the criticisms on Patrick's skating, and there has been relentlessly plenty, from lack to quads to lack of artistry, there has never been a demand for him to bring the Biellman spin. WHEW!

Biellman spins are just not expected of men.

Oh wait. We are talking about Patrick Chan. :think:

 

[skatinginbc]

You can better the society if you turn your attention to the real perps.

Well-known bigots actually won't hurt gay youth too much in terms of mental well-being. The latter can easily view them as idiots and ignore whatever they say. When the Iranian dictator claimed that there is no gay in Iran and when Taiwanese body building association claimed that there is no gay in their sport, they were widely considered a laughing matter. What would most hamper a healthy development for the gay people is the negativity from their peer, role models, family members and from places where they consider a safe heaven. There are not many safe places for gays to be themselves without having the fear of ridicule. Imagine the life of one who cannot even find a safe place, even in the skating community, a presumably safer, more tolerant one.

It is beyond my power to change the whole world. To better the life of one or two, however, is well within my reach. The best way to better the society is everyone contributing a little by doing simple things that are well within their ability. Patrick Chan can certainly do that. All he has to do is to shut his god-kissed mouth.

I don't expect that the majority of posters here will agree or appreciate my opinion. We live in an environment where gay jokes and mockery prevail. "What's the big deal", so would many think since most of us are so numbed by them and have heard even worse comments. What I wish to accomplish here is by luck and by reason to change the opinion of one or two, and most importantly, to show support to the oppressed: There is always someone out there that will stand up for them.

 

[skatinginbc]

I agree with this. Not a fan of men doing Biellmans even though I realize how rare it is for a man to be able to do a decent one. Didn't like Plushenko's at all.

Yuzuru HANYU's was actually pretty good. So it depends more on how it is done than on the gender of the performer.

 

[skatinginbc]

Who among us can live up to a standard of saying just the perfect things all the time, under scrutiny?

It is not his one-time mouth slip but a repeated offense. Why would he change anyway since so many fans here support his courage of speaking his mind? Is it so hard for him to refrain himself from commenting on gay-sensitive issues? I am not asking him to say the perfect things. I am asking him to say NOTHING--to avoid the subject all together. He can keep silent or even give a fake smile when others are making a gay joke. He can talk about himself without making a judgment on others.

 

[justaskatingfan]

It is also Skate Canada's intention to "masculinized" male figure skating in Canada.

 

[Tonichelle]

Gay people live in an environment where their atypical behavior is a laughing matter, their sexual orientation invites bully and bashing, and their very existence is rejected by many. If one is teased and beaten all the time, or if one simply learns all these negative consequences through social learning, he will be on guard all the time for being gay. To you, it seems that they are just over-reacting, looking for ways to be offended. But if you have a compassionate heart, you should be able to understand where that comes from.

Everyone has equal opportunity to be bullied and laughed at. It's not something that is just a "gay person's" issue any more than it's a black issue or a woman issue or a purple people eater issue. People look to be offended because in this generation that's what we do. And yet everyone screams for tolerance... so long as that tolerance falls in line with what I am tolerant of...

ain't buyin' it. :sheesh:

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Everyone has equal opportunity to be bullied and laughed at. It's not something that is just a "gay person's" issue any more than it's a black issue or a woman issue or a purple people eater issue. People look to be offended because in this generation that's what we do. And yet everyone screams for tolerance... so long as that tolerance falls in line with what I am tolerant of...

ain't buyin' it. :sheesh:

Really? Everyone faces equal amounts of prejudice and intolerance (essentially the root of bullying)?

 

[Tonichelle]

Really? Everyone faces equal amounts of prejudice and intolerance (essentially the root of bullying)?

Everyone has the same opportunity. Whether or not they all get the same amount is a difference. But it's not just the gay population, or the black population. You can be that stereotypical straight, white, blond haired blue eyed kid/person and still get bullied and hurt emotionally (and physically) - you just don't get your photo in the paper when it all comes to ahead and the bullies do something extreme, or you give up and do the extreme.

Playgrounds are littered with bullies and bullied... and it goes into high school and adulthood. Call it hazing (which is what we were all about in the 90s) or bullying, it's the same thing. It's someone thinking higher of themselves for just no other reason than they think they're better. They may use the excuse of whatever that person might be (gay, nerd, wrong place at the wrong time) but to just go out and say that it's an epidemic for one demographic is extreme. It seems to be more apparent to this group because it's the sensationalism of media figures at the moment. It's not changing, it's just the attention that's changing.

 

[skatinginbc]

Everyone has equal opportunity to be bullied and laughed at.

Really? Would you like to have your opportunity to be laughed at now?

 

[Tonichelle]

Really? Would you like to have your opportunity to be laughed at now?

it won't prove your point.

 

[wallylutz]

Gay people live in an environment where their atypical behavior is a laughing matter, their sexual orientation invites bully and bashing, and their very existence is rejected by many. If one is teased and beaten all the time, or if one simply learns all these negative consequences through social learning, he will be on guard all the time for being gay. To you, it seems that they are just over-reacting, looking for ways to be offended. But if you have a compassionate heart, you should be able to understand where that comes from.

Yes, I think you are overreacting.

 

[wallylutz]

I don't think Patrick is homophobic, but what he did was not a service to the society, in terms of promoting diversity. He is teaching other kids that effeminate behavior is not respected and should be shunned upon. Such a message is loudly conveyed by his actions. Grow up, Patrick, if you are a man enough, you don't really have to distance yourself from any implication of being gay. Too bad, Patrick, you are a celebrity now, and I hold your behavior to a high standard. Be responsible to the society and realize that your words and actions will have an impact on others.

Sorry, now you are being overly dramatic and over the top. Maybe you should go do some ice dance lessons with Angelika Krylova, it would put your dramatic ability into good use.

 

[Mathman]

Toni, everyone does not have an equal opportunity to be bullied. Jews had a greater opportunity to be bullied by Hitler than gentiles did. We do not read in the newspapers about boys being bullied to the point of suicide for being straight.

The relation between a despised minority and the powerful and self-congratulatory majority is just not a symmetric one.

The only thing that I disagree with in SkatingBC's post is the remark that it is OK for Patrick to give a fake smile when someone makes a gay joke. Yes, it is nearly impossible for a twenty-year-old to stand up to peer pressure. No-one ever claimed that moral leadership is easy.

 

[MrScroogeMcDuck]

For what it is worth, since you didn't want to be explicit about it. I was alone in closed quarters with [redacted] when we rode an elevator up the official hotel at a competition last year. I chatted with him briefly and wished him good luck. If you ask me, there is no doubt in my mind that he is gay. That's my personal hunch but it's a hunch based on actually meeting the person, in closed quarters and after talking to the said person.

As a gay man, I know exactly what you mean about being able to tell when you meet someone. My gaydar hasn't let me down yet. However, I think that kind of discussion is prohibited here unless the person is officially out of the closet in the same sense that Johnny Weir finally is. (IOW, has come out to the press, not just his friends/family.) At least, that's my understanding. Any mods/admins want to clarify?

Then again, even among gays, teasing is quite common these days and age.

Quite agreed. And it's not all mean-spirited either.

 

[Mathman]

At least, that's my understanding. Any mods/admins want to clarify?

Yes, that is correct. It falls under skaters' privacy in the guidelines.

By the way, we also discourage gossip about who is romantically involved with whom, gay or straight.

 

[MrScroogeMcDuck]

Thanks for clearing that up. I see the post has been removed, so I also edited mine to remove the name of the person involved.

 

[Tonichelle]

Toni, everyone does not have an equal opportunity to be bullied. Jews had a greater opportunity to be bullied by Hitler than gentiles did. We do not read in the newspapers about boys being bullied to the point of suicide for being straight.

That's not to say it doesn't happen, it just isn't sensational enough to print.

Hitler's genocide is a huge jump from what we're talkinga bout here. He wasn't a bully, he was a terrorist dictator. Yes, bullies are a form of terrorist, but this is a little bit different. We've gone from two guys saying "that's not my thing" to Hitler? Really? I get so sick of Hitler and homophobe being flung around just to win an argument, ANY argument. But, fine, let's just ignore the fact that Christians were also burned with Jews for speaking out against the regime. He killed homosexuals, invalids, elderly, anyone his depraved little mind wanted to. Just as a bully does, yes, maybe it's because they're different... but more likely it's just because they CAN.

However, I think that kind of discussion is prohibited here unless the person is officially out of the closet in the same sense that Johnny Weir finally is. (IOW, has come out to the press, not just his friends/family.) At least, that's my understanding. Any mods/admins want to clarify?

Yes. We believe in the skater's right to privacy at Golden Skate.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

That's not to say it doesn't happen, it just isn't sensational enough to print.

That's relentlessly cynical, and also strikes me as wrong. I can't think of a single circumstance where a kid was bullied because he was straight.

 

[Tonichelle]

That's relentlessly cynical, and also strikes me as wrong. I can't think of a single circumstance where a kid was bullied because he was straight.

maybe not, but he was different. why is it, though, that only those bullied that are gay make the news? Are the others less newsworthy, or is just more sensational because hollywood actors will comment on it. What about those that were bullied for buck teeth or braces or glasses, or because their dad's in jail? Why are they less important? Or are they truly less important because they are "just straight"? It goes both ways, just as it does with racism. EVERYONE gets bullied. Some just get more attention and help from others. Straight, gay, male, female, black, white...