Another part of the interview:
E: I want to go back a little, wait, I'm just very worried and excited about this topic ... I just want too, you know ... I want to reveal this moment of the first transition, from Eteri Georgievna to Plushenko. For me, it's a little bit… You know, I respect all specialists, I respect your mother's opinion, I respect your opinion. But I’m just very offended that adults sometimes, it’s not often, but, unfortunately, this happens - for some reason they don’t put young girls who are 15, 16 or 17 years old on the same level as 25-year-olds, in while female athletes are already very mature internally by this age, and it is possible to conduct a dialogue with them. And here's what it says now...
Z: Well, wait, well, you were 17 years old, well, let it be 16, but almost 17 ...
E: What Alyona is telling now is very insulting. There was no such dialogue as “Guys, listen to me!”
A: They listened to me, yes ...
E: Listen, not that everything, I'm sorry, is bad, and I want to leave because I'm tired, but listen, that, as it were ...
Z: Wait, but how was it perceived? Here is the European champion, the first number. Did you become the first number of the group?
A: Well, no, I have never been the first number of the group.
Z: So you didn't become number one even after the European Championship?
A: Well, I have never been the first number of the group. At first there were some girls, then there were other girls, younger, but I was never the leader of the group. I had... Little kids were always pushed away from me. They were simply pushed aside. Because I just don't know why, but there was an opinion that I was discouraging the group and I was corrupting the whole group. I have been told this many times. Allegedly, I spoiled [other skaters] with some of my actions. Maybe it is so. But this is not because I'm somehow bad, it's just that people did not have the character to think with their own heads. They just looked at me: “She does it, and I will do the same! And I want so!". There was no such thing that I incited someone: “Come on, do this.” No, these people themselves were going in the wrong direction. And this wrong direction did not affect me much. That is, I could do something here, or I could play in the opposite direction.
I don't have any hard limits. It's like going to bed at 11 pm - I can go to bed at 1 am and nothing bad will happen to me. But for some it's bad. And, in general, in such situations, they told me that I was corrupting the whole group.
E: Well, actually you are right that each person should ideally be responsible for himself...
A: A person should think with his own head. And if someone is driven, amenable to influence, then this is not my problem.
Z: But you understand - on the other hand, the coach is responsible for the whole group, he needs to build the weather, the climate in the whole group.
A: Well, probably, it was necessary to hire someone ... There is practical experience with specialists, there are psychologists who work with athletes, I even know [some]
Z: Have you ever interacted with a psychologist yourself?
A: Yes, I worked with a psychologist.
Z: So you don't think it's something shameful?
A: I will say more - I am still working with a psychologist. And this is the minimum, because I am also studying the profession of a psychologist. I study at two institutes.
Z: Yes! In what, except sports?
A: I study at the Moscow Institute of Psychoanalysis.
Z: Yes, I know such an institute. That is, do you think that it is necessary for an athlete to work with a psychologist?
A: It should be mandatory.
E: Thank you! Yes.
A: Yes, it is necessary, it must be mandatory. Because there is a specialist - and he will communicate with each athlete, and this athlete will be clearly aware of what he needs. Because it's not a coach's job to run after an athlete at every competition and make sure he goes to bed on time so he doesn't eat too much at lunch. At least, so that this does not happen before the start of the tournament, well, after the end - it is already possible (laughs), you can celebrate the results. At a minimum, it is necessary that the athlete be held before the start of the competition.
Z: Wait, I can't understand something - it seems to me that you are contradicting yourself now. On the one hand, you say that it was not your motivation, but the motivation of the coach, the motivation of your mother. That is, I somehow don’t see your motivation here for several seasons, including during the winning seasons in junior and senior competitions. On the other hand, now you say that an athlete should have his own motivation, he should have his own head on his shoulders.
A: Of course, I always adhered to this point of view, they just never listened to me, they just forced me. That is, here I am doing something, I have some kind of my own training plan - to do a little of this here, and there - something else, and do it in such a way that, at a minimum, I don’t get injured and don’t overwork . And instead, there is some kind of discontent towards me - “you didn’t do it, you did it wrong! You don't do cascades! Why don't you have an axel?"
Z: Alena, but you had a result!
A: But at what cost?
Z: At what cost?
A: At such a cost that we have to be treated, that I had 16 weeks without training. And this is just now, only now I put it on public display. You never know what was going on inside.
Z: No, we don't.
A: That's right! And nobody knows. And there was a lot of things, when I didn’t train, I couldn’t train. And they immediately asked me: “Why are you removing loads? Everyone does, but you don't - why? We will not adapt to you. Either you do [what we need], or you stay at home. And here you are all crippled, you go out on the ice on all the painkillers that you can use - and you go to jump, because you know that if you don’t go out now and don't skate, then another girl will go out who will skate - and she will take your place.
Z: Well, right, well, you yourself, as I remember, said somewhere, in some interview, I don’t remember exactly where it sounded, it’s not so important. But you said that you had a lot of competitions, when you were also told: “Wait…”
A: It was already at an older age, when I was at the Plushenko Academy, when we underwent a medical examination and I was not even given a conditional admission to training. The doctor called the coach and said: “Have you seen her? How do I give her clearance when it's my responsibility - what happens if she gets injured in the competition, what will we do? Do you want a scandal? And we answer the doctor: "Let's think of something, let's do something." And they really told me: “Come on, finish the treatment completely, recover normally, because you will restore your form, it’s not so difficult.” And I: “No, I have to perform, I have to!”
E: It's already a psychological moment, because you've already had a different experience before...
A: Because earlier I would have been “killed” for this!
E: Of course, there is already a psychological barrier here, because she thinks: “Now I will stop, I will finish the treatment, and suddenly five other girls will come instead of me during this time.” This already from childhood psychological barrier remains.
A: So I was talking about a psychologist - that his work is necessary, because later, when you finish your sports career, and you leave the sport as a person who has not seen real life. It's like a decorative rabbit that lives in a cage, which has been released into the wild, he does not know what to do, and in three days he will be eaten. Because he is not used to it, he is not adapted to life.
Z: When did you realize that?
A: I realized this when I was collecting documents now.
Z: What documents?
E: Probably for a transfer?
A: Well, the documents needed to get a job. Because... Well, it's not so difficult - a certificate from a multifunctional center, a work book, all this, a badge of a master of sports, something else - a list of these documents takes up a whole paper sheet. I reacted to this: “What is it?”.
E: "Do I have that"?
A: Yes, and at some point I called my mother and asked her: “What is this? What is this name? She answered me: “This is what it means, this is what it means, in order to receive this document you will have to go to this place, get a certificate there, then go to three other offices with this certificate.” And I react: “And you can write it down and send it to me as a text, otherwise I can’t remember” (laughs).
Then Elena Germanovna asked me when I came to her a day later: “Have you collected the documents?” And she is surprised that I have not collected it yet, he says: “There is nothing complicated here” - and he starts telling me what to do, and I clutch my head - “I have a passport, I have an insurance certificate - that's all! What else do you need?" Well, really - here you come out [from sports school] and you don’t know anything, you’re used to someone doing everything instead of you, and you don’t know anything.
E: First your mom is responsible for you, then the coach - and so on until the end, and then at a certain moment - bang!
A: Yes, you go out and think: “What next? But how?"
Z: Okay, let's do this: we have described the situation. To prevent this from happening, is it necessary to build the life of young athletes in some other way?
A: Naturally. First, they need to be taught to be independent. I don't mean something like "I'll go to the competition myself", no. Independence is when you are responsible for your own actions. You are responsible for your words, for your promises, fulfilled and unfulfilled. This is basic. Responsibility for ensuring that, at a minimum, your mother does not run after you. Because there were such cases: “Mom, go to Sochi, sharpen my skates. Today you need to fly to Sochi and sharpen my skates.” I think…
E: Why in Sochi?
A: Because... It's a funny story. Because there was some very cool sharpening, I don’t know for sure, this story is not about me, it’s rumored.
Z: Ah, so it's not about you...
A: This is ... My mother herself would have sent me right away ...
Z: In Sochi! Go yourself to Sochi!
*Note: This is a hint to swear word similar to go to hell.
A: Yes, it's like going out after the first practice and saying - "Mom, take my skates, fly to Sochi and you must deliver them to me tomorrow already sharpened." Well, I don't imagine it.
Z: It doesn't fit in my head.
A: I would never risk saying something like that, even in jest. Well, that is, you need to be responsible for your inventory, for your dresses, for all this. And yes, if you are asked to collect some documents, then you need to be able to do this. That is, if you skate at an adult level, win some tournaments, you must at least correspond to your age. Because when you seem to be skating yourself, and your parents do everything for you, it’s still not the same.
E: Well, I agree. In fact, there is something in this, especially since women's figure skating has become so younger in our country. I'm not talking about girls at the age of 14-15, although even then they need to be prepared for something, because a sports career ends very early.
Z: Well, you know why I remembered this example with Khudaiberdiyeva - because in that case everything came from the parents. That is, it was her parents who told her at the age of 13 that she was responsible for herself.
A: Right. Maybe this should not have been done at the age of 13 ...
Z: Your decision… No, but in that case it happened that…
A: Well, everyone has it already ...
Z: Everyone has their respective age...
A: Yes! But at least at the age of 15-16 it is already necessary to carry out some kind of social adaptation, otherwise it’s already just ...
Z: Well, do you understand yourself? .. (laughs) Brilliant phrase ... Brilliant phrase - social adaptation ... Well, you think about it and understand that it's right - the social adaptation of a young athlete.
A: Yes! Who is working with this? Psychologists work with this.
E: Yes, they work with that as well.
(Z shakes his head dejectedly)
E: Okay. I'm interested in what's next, your second transfer. Here you were skating, you took responsibility contrary to what you were told. And how did the transfer happen in the opposite direction?
A: I... Because I... It's such an interesting situation... Now I'll try to give an analogy. Who were my coaches: Marina Evgenievna Cherkasova is a woman, Elena Vyacheslavovna is a woman, Eteri Georgievna is also a woman. I have ... I do not perceive a man as an authority. For me it is not an authority. That is, I rely mainly on life experience, on some kind of knowledge, and not on the fact that there is some kind of patriarchy - that's all.
Z: Well, what's the difference - a man or a woman? A coach is always a coach anyway.
A: No!
Z: Why?
A: No, that's all. I don't know how it works. For me, the opinion of a man is not an authoritative opinion. I don't know why, it's just the way it is.
E: Maybe it's another habit from childhood - always a woman coaches.
A: Yes, I am trained by strong and independent women who are responsible for themselves, make their own decisions. They made themselves. And they always taught me not to depend on anyone. And here it is ... I don’t even know how to say this template “a strong and independent woman”, it somehow settled in my mind so well that women have always been authority for me. It’s not like I didn’t respect male coaches…
Z: Don't you think you should consult a psychologist about this?
A: This is already a stable stereotype, which is easier for me to adapt to. This is already in the format of coaches.
Z: You're sorry, of course. “In the format of coaches”, but you have a life ahead of you and, as it were ...
E: Here I agree with Andrey - if I were you, Alena, I would work with a psychologist. Because I know how they work and maybe this template of yours also came from the past. And you need to work on this problem not so that men become authoritative for you, but to find out the reason why only women are authority for you.
A: Yes, that's all there was at that time. And here I also take into account past merits, past winnings and think: “What if? What if it works?
Z: You mean if they take you back?
A: Yes. If they return me to this team, from which I jumped out partly of my own free will, partly not of my own free will. And I think: “I’ll take a risk, if it doesn’t work out, I’ll put up with it, if it works out, it’s great.” Well, somehow they took me back.
E: Do you think that this period of throwing, which was so brightly covered in the media and in any case will leave its mark on your sports career (and, perhaps, it will be a bad mark) was to some extent the result of your transitional age , your puberty? These vivid emotions, your opinion comes first, “why don’t they listen to me?” etc. This more or less coincides with the “adult child” template - when, on the one hand, you want to become strong and independent already at this age, on the other hand, you already stop obeying your elders, following the principle “I myself know everything better” and so Further. Maybe this is what happened? Or do you have no regrets and think that ...
A: I do not regret it, of course, because now I have visited the three main headquarters of figure skating. I have tried every method of work that exists. And, of course, I found for myself the technique that suits me.
E: Well, God give you actually…
Z: Well, I wouldn't say that you've been to all the strongest headquarters...
A: I meant within Moscow.
Z: If within Moscow - yes.
A: I'm not talking about ... (shows with his hands) - this is already different.
E: Okay, wait - I have a question - you say you don't take a man as an authority. But just for example (it’s clear that this will not happen, but let’s say) - suddenly Brian Orser calls you on the phone and says: “Alena, ...” ...
Z: No, let's not talk about Brian Orser, let it be Stéphane Lambiel.
E: No! Well, then let it be Arutyunyan. Let's argue (laughs). Harutyunyan is better - you like to cite Nathan Chen as an example. So let's say - Arutyunyan calls you and says: "Alena, I see exactly what you need, how I can fix you, come to me." At least just for a two-three week internship. And you already understand that men are not authority for you, but my God - this is Arutyunyan, I myself would agree to train with him.
A: Yes, of course, I will go, I will listen to his opinion, especially since I say experience. Let's be frank - Sergei Alexandrovich [Rozanov] or ...
Z: Or Rafael Vladimirovich, if I'm not mistaken...
A: Yes! Well, how comparable they are is not even discussed. Naturally, here you can learn a lot, here a person, as it were ...
Z: So what? What's the difference if you do not perceive men as an authority?
A: Yes, but that doesn't mean I won't listen. That is, I can highlight for myself some moments and nuances.
Z: So you understand... You are now learning to be a coach and a psychologist - then the question of trust arises. Indeed, in fact, the most important thing, probably, in the training process is trust.
E: Yes, I think so too.
Z: So it turns out ... Let me put it differently - a man is not an authority for you, or do you trust male coaches?
A: No, that's exactly what I don't trust men. They are not able to understand some points that women are able to understand. Well, that's just the way it is.
E: Well, explain it. So I worked with a male trainer and I was very comfortable ...
Z: You also worked with a female coach.
E: Yes. And I was comfortable. But now we are not talking about me, but about Alena. I started talking about this because you know... I'm not trying to convince you, I just want to say that Sergei Rozanov (about whom, however, I'm not trying to say anything bad) has a different level of skill and such monsters of figure skating as Arutyunyan, Alexander Zhulin and so on. They have much, much more experience. But even so, they always worked not only with men, but also with women. I'm talking about the fact that you can have a dialogue with them - both on women's affairs and not on women's affairs. It's just like a person with a person, like an athlete to a coach, like with a friend, like with a partner. And if there are any inconveniences, this dialogue needs to be conducted, and a man can also understand this.
A: Well, there was no dialogue with me. They told me: “I know how to do it right, but you still don’t have enough experience, so do as I say.” And when I expressed my opinion, it was regarded as follows: “why did you allow yourself to open your mouth?!”. That's how it was. And when with women, it is much more convenient for me to find some line, to enter into a dialogue.
E: I understand you well, but it was the other way around for me - I left a female coach because they didn’t take me seriously, they didn’t let me sew costumes on my own, they didn’t let me contribute to the choreography. And when I moved to Alexander Zhulin, my wings literally grew. A dialogue immediately began, they asked me what hurts me, whether I need to rest, I got the opportunity to participate in the creation of the costume - and I know my figure, I know how good it is for me, how to make me feel beautiful. This is where the dialogue began, and earlier the female coach told me: “I know everything better than you.” And you see - everything happened differently for you, it is very interesting and it is surprising for me to listen to all this.
Z: Well, I can say, as a person who also worked with a psychologist, since we are discussing such serious things that are important for life ... Here is the story “I am independent, I decide everything myself, I know everything better than anyone” - for life, such views and behavior are not useful, this is 100%.
A: Well, I'm not saying that I know everything better than anyone. Here is an important point.
Z: Well, I don't know - you didn't listen to your mother.
A: Well, we have a conflict of interest, so... I'd rather tell the truth, although I know that this truth will be unpleasant, for someone this truth will be very uncomfortable, for which I will get very big trouble later. But it will be the truth, and no one else will tell the truth. Because everyone else will say, “I'm glad. I am satisfied. All people are wonderful. Yes."
E: Personally, I tell everyone about it. I respect you very much for this peculiarity of yours, because it is responsibility for your words, for your actions. And you perfectly understand that you live your own life with these actions and decisions - not someone else's life, not instead of someone else, not because you want to be comfortable for everyone. And you have to be really brave to do that. And frankly, I can't. I should have learned this from you. It is very cool.
Z: 95% of people are not capable of doing that.
E: Keep doing it, Alyona! I will always support you in this.
Z: It seems to me that as experience grows and matures, this will somehow change. Or is it a fixed position?
A: The attitude to tell the truth?
Z: Yes.
A: Well...
Z: You understand, no one forces you to lie, but you can remain silent at some point.
A: At some moments I am already silent.
E: Well, we ask her, so she is not silent!
A: Yes, when they ask me, I naturally say. And no questions asked, just like that, I don’t distribute my opinion to everyone.
(everyone laughs)
) refered about the very same thing completely differently, which was caused by different attitude, different sympathies and different expectations. So, that's why I rarely haste with any judgement.
