Well, according to ppl who saw her early in season in person. That's exactly what the words Sasha was described. "As thin as Qing Pang.".....personally I don't think either is too thin if they are not skaters.....but I do realize as a skater especially single skater, you do need some musel to pull up your jump. And the injury at joints are much more easy to occure with the quick lose of body water at these earea.....Look at Sasha's jumps this season, bearly lift off the ice.SailorGalaxia518 said:
Is Sasha Cohen Too Thin?
- Thread starter Rgirl
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2004
When I saw Sasha Cohen at TEB she looked just fine
What would make her spins slower relative to a possible "unhealthy" thinness is that spins require the most energy and strength. Don't listen to me. Dick Button has been saying it forever.nymkfan51 said:
If she has too little muscle mass and is eating too little, her body wouldn't have the strength to maintain the speed and positions of the spins. But it's not just the spins. She's slower in general. At TEB she said she missed that last 3sal because she was "way behind the music" and rushed the jump.
Why wouldn't being overly thin affect jumps? They lost only a few 10ths of a second. An overly thin body can handle that--at least for a while.
As for what she eats, check out her journal: No fat; super lean meat; lettuce, carrots. No carbs whatsoever.
Example of a verified account of anorexia in a ladies figure skater:
Someone mentioned Midori Ito at '96 Worlds. Remember the "anemia" the JF said Midori had? It was reported a couple of years later that Midori had had anoexia since about '96.
http://www.t3.rim.or.jp/~sports/latest/others/otl-fs.html
Midori is Back!
Midori Itoh skated before a crowd of 1500 spectators on Apr. 26 at the Shin-Yokohama PH Skate Center. It was feared that she may not be able to perform at a professional level, after her retirement from amateur status in November 1996. She was hospitalized from time to time for anorexia. So her return to skating is a big relief to fans. Although she did show off the triple axel jump she is renowned for, she did do a simpler form of a triple jump. The ice skating show continued until May 5.
Midori Ito will not perform in Nagano
Japan's greatest figure skating champion spoke before the press on Nov. 29, 1996, that she is retiring. This is actually her 2nd time to leave amateur status. Ito returned to amateur competitions in 1995. This move was aimed to bring up the Olympics spirit for Nagano in 1998.
Ito won the Japan championship for the 9th time this year, but was unable to perform well afterwards. She's been rumored to have been hospitalized a number of times due to too much dieting. Ito said to the press that she practiced her new routine for this season from September. She has discovered though that her body has lost the agility and energy that she was known for.
Some of you know my background in this area, 25 years worth of counselfing dancers, skaters, and other "movers who must maintain an exceptionally low body weight." Very true. I had a ballet class friend who had trouble eating enough. She had to keep a jar of peanut butter with her at all times in case rehearsals ran long. An anorexic modern dance friend who was 5'6" and weight 80 LB., whose parents were nutritionists, also had to go around with a jar of peanute butter, but in her case it was so she wouldn't die. Oh, joy! Most of use would say. What did she say, "It's disgusting. Being forced to stuff food in your face!" This was after a tablespoon of peanut butter.
Thanks everyone for being so civilized. At least so far--seems like about p5 of these threads, the gloves come off. But great so far!
Maybe tomorrow I'll post technical and research stuff. Maybe.
Rgirl
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
I hope that Sasha has some of the best physiologists / dieticians on her team to help her determine her omptimal physiology for this sport. She is petite (as an EXTREMELY general categorization), as many top figure skaters are. I'm betting her body fat % is far lower than most if not all of us couch potatoes, as are most if not all elite athletes, regardless of the sport. I would also bet that other aspects of her physiology lend themselves to her success in this sport.
I respect posts from those who back themselves up with details (i.e. lean muscle mass v. fat%), etc. I am equally concerned (as RGirl, thread originator was, who has always backed up her posts on subjects like this with facts) that this will turn into "Sasha Has An Eating Disorder!" or "Sasha Is Fat as a Cow!" or "Sasha is skinny but just fine!" or "If Sasha wins who cares!" None of those off the cuff reactions contributes, IMO, to a meaningful discussion of this topic.
I will assume that Sasha has the very best people available to advise her, and whether she takes there advice or not, I will never know. Over and Out.
DG
I respect posts from those who back themselves up with details (i.e. lean muscle mass v. fat%), etc. I am equally concerned (as RGirl, thread originator was, who has always backed up her posts on subjects like this with facts) that this will turn into "Sasha Has An Eating Disorder!" or "Sasha Is Fat as a Cow!" or "Sasha is skinny but just fine!" or "If Sasha wins who cares!" None of those off the cuff reactions contributes, IMO, to a meaningful discussion of this topic.
I will assume that Sasha has the very best people available to advise her, and whether she takes there advice or not, I will never know. Over and Out.
DG
Now folks, THIS is thin
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.co...fz03.240804130149.photo02.default-384x291.jpg
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.co...fz03.240804130149.photo02.default-384x291.jpg
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2005
Hmm...
I don't think Sasha is too thin for skating as long as she has the stamina for her training. I think a lot of her body is HOW she is built.
I am a little concerned about whether her body fat percentage is so low that she could have no periods. Which means she is not ovulating. That is important for women because it robs their estrogen levels and affects having brittle bones or being able to have children later in life.
But then, I am sure that is (hopefully) a concern among all the top women skaters.
I don't think Sasha is too thin for skating as long as she has the stamina for her training. I think a lot of her body is HOW she is built.
I am a little concerned about whether her body fat percentage is so low that she could have no periods. Which means she is not ovulating. That is important for women because it robs their estrogen levels and affects having brittle bones or being able to have children later in life.
But then, I am sure that is (hopefully) a concern among all the top women skaters.
I think that Golden Skate should add a different feature to this forum! That way all the posters out there with backgrounds in medicine can express their views on the skaters and diagnose them. Then fans won't have to worry if skaters are having their monthly cycles or not.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Given a pound or two either way, I think Sasha looks the same as she did in 2000. Of couse I mean her weight. However, I think her overall looks went from doll face to mature beauty. JMO
Joe
Joe
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2005
If this in fact an accurate depiction of her diet it is PROFOUNDLY unhealthy. I cannot say she has an eating disorder, but if that's true her eating is disordered. Total lack of fat is NOT healthy and will eventually make you very ill. Frankly I don't think I could function as an athlete/dancer without carbs, myself. Not to mention when I don't get fruits (which are full of carbs) or high-fiber grain my digestive system pitches a fit. My body does not want lean protein when I've been practicing for three hours in a 35-degree rink (as I did this morning.) It wants carbs it can convert to energy and it wants them now. A senior-level skater trains HOW many hours, how much harder, than a pre-Bronze dancer? You have to fuel your body if you want it to perform. With her diet, I would also be concerned just on nutritional, rather than weight, grounds. It is very, very hard to get the right balance of nutrients by cutting out entire food groups. Grazing on small amounts of everything is much better for you.
I do think she is naturally slim. Without knowing her exact height, weight, percentage of body fat, and her medical history, I have no idea if she is TOO thin. I think she looks unappealingly thin, but my own figure is 36-28-36 and as such I am probably biased against boyish frames on women. I would hope her mother and her coach are keeping tabs on her for any signs that she has taken the thin thing too far (and I really hope neither is aiding and abetting her if she does have a problem.)
Great post, Doggygirl. Anybody want to talk BMI? How was your percent body fat tested? Underwater? Electromagnetically? Skinfold? After 25 years of counseling dancers, skaters, and other "movers who must maintain an exceptionally low body weight" and having a book published on same, you learn a few things you thought you knew, only to find out that the only way you can really learn anything--and then you still just learn how much more you have to learn--is to face these dying girls and women, and I do mean dying, every damn day for 25 years.
To the "THIS is thin!" "No, THIS is thin!" posters: It's not how thin they are. It's how thin their GENETICS intend them to be.
Khorkina has been that weight since I first saw her, at least eight years ago. Never up, never down. Her genes and her conditioning are determinging that.
Sasha looks to me about 10 lb. lighter now than she did at the '02 Olympics. Check your tapes.
Request, the topic is Sasha. If you want to have a "This is thin!" contest, If I could, I'd put up my photos of "Ballerinas from Auschwitz," which I realize is a very offensive name. But if you took the photos of these girls and tried, with their doctors, to save their lives--failing more often than not--ballet dancers who had been the best in the world just 2 or 3 years earlier, who were simply skeletons and organs with skin stretched over them, girls who believed down to their souls that they were TOO FAT, you'd understand why I use an offensive name.
Speaking of skeletal girls thinking they're too fat, one of the theories of anorexia--which NONE of us is saying we think anybody has who hasn't announced it--is that it's a form of body dysmorphic disorder. In BDD, normal, attractive, even beautiful people truly see themselves as hideously ugly. I nice cute nose to them looks like a football. With anorexics, the hypothesis is that they really cannot see how thin they are, that they look in the mirror and really see 300 LB. women.
Just something to think about. I've gotta eat.
Rgirl
To the "THIS is thin!" "No, THIS is thin!" posters: It's not how thin they are. It's how thin their GENETICS intend them to be.
Khorkina has been that weight since I first saw her, at least eight years ago. Never up, never down. Her genes and her conditioning are determinging that.
Sasha looks to me about 10 lb. lighter now than she did at the '02 Olympics. Check your tapes.
Request, the topic is Sasha. If you want to have a "This is thin!" contest, If I could, I'd put up my photos of "Ballerinas from Auschwitz," which I realize is a very offensive name. But if you took the photos of these girls and tried, with their doctors, to save their lives--failing more often than not--ballet dancers who had been the best in the world just 2 or 3 years earlier, who were simply skeletons and organs with skin stretched over them, girls who believed down to their souls that they were TOO FAT, you'd understand why I use an offensive name.
Speaking of skeletal girls thinking they're too fat, one of the theories of anorexia--which NONE of us is saying we think anybody has who hasn't announced it--is that it's a form of body dysmorphic disorder. In BDD, normal, attractive, even beautiful people truly see themselves as hideously ugly. I nice cute nose to them looks like a football. With anorexics, the hypothesis is that they really cannot see how thin they are, that they look in the mirror and really see 300 LB. women.
Just something to think about. I've gotta eat.
Rgirl
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
Rgirl said:
As a former anorexic, continuing to deal with weight and image issues 30+ years later, I do take this topic very seriously. But I don't think it's fair for a bunch of fans on a discussion board to assume anything, one way or the other, about individuals (FS athletes in this case) that none of us have personal contact with, or that level of knowledge about. A photograph on the internet, or an opinion based on coverage of a program performed on ice says nothing, and I mean NOTHING about this topic that any of us could possibly take "personal" with any athletes where this might be a concern.
Based on my personal experience, I do have my own concerns about things I see and things I hear/read in interviews, etc. But I don't know these people individually, and while I have a lot to say on this topic from my own perspective, will not put my thoughts on other people.
For those of you who have been around since last season, you might tell me I went to far on this subject with a Pair's skater. I realize (how do I double capitalize the "I") that while I stand by my opinion, I was equally out of line because I do NOT know this person, and cannot possibly comment on their thoughts or personal habits.
DG
Check out this (old) photo someone over at sashafans posted of Khorkina. Looks like she had a fuller figure here:
http://svetlana.no.sapo.pt/khorkina1-2.jpg
So something happened (I think).
BTW, the posters on the "Sasha is thin" side are just going to have to learn to disagree with me
Hardly anything is going to change my mind unless I hear it from her or her family (and who's one to think THAT's gonna happen?).ETA: DG- you've got it nailed down. I can't see how anyone can possibly speculate that Cohen is thin without even seeing her. By that I mean in person. Remember, cameras tend to do weird things to people's bodies
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There are gymnasts and other such athletes all over the world who are dangerously thin. But the thread is about Sasha. Everybody has different body proportions, so putting a photo of long-legged gymnast with those legs in a position to look their thinnest means nohting relative to Sasha. Sorry, RD.Red DogNow this is thin! said:
Actually, maybe they don't mean nothing. Sasha has a long torso and relative short legs. if this gymnast had Sasha's proportions, she'd look just like Sasha.
Also, this girl may be fine. Her genetics may have her programmed to be very thin, plus I think she's Romanian and they push even their naturally ultra-thin girls to lose weight.
Remember, it's not how thin you are. It's how thin you genes want you to be and still be healthy.
Remember '96 Worlds when Midori Ito made her "comeback." Wish I had a nickel for every time I heard someone say, "She's lost weight. Oh, she looks great!"
No, she looked anorexic to me, There are ways you can tell, places on the body you can look for certain bone protusions--such as being able to see the ribs through the back, as just one example. Of course a true exam is done in a physicians office. But after a while, you also notice subjective things, such as a "dead look" in the eyes, no joy in their movement. It's all "just let me get through this."
BTW, Doggygirl, I highly doubt that Sasha has experts to consult. Most skaters don't want them. If skaters, and I'm not talking Sasha, has a predilection to anorexia or bulimia (as I break my own rule from p1), the last person they want around is an expert in eating disorders. They WANT this disease. The most dangerous thing about the disease is that the body drives itself to have it, either neurochemically, neurohormonally, psychologically, or, my hypothesis, a combination of the three.
Anorexic girls don't want to get well and they'll do anything to stay sick: Keep coffe cans under their beds so they can eat in front of their parents, who also keep a close eye on the bathroom, and make themselves vomit what they ate into the can. If they have a dog, they feed their vomit to the dog.
Wanna hear worse stories?
So if you're willing to puke into a coffe can under your bed and feed your puke to your dog, do you think such a person is going to let anybody hire a specialist in eating disorders for her? Anorexia and bulimia is a lot about hiding--hide the food you didn't eat, hide the laxatives you're taking by the handful, hide in the closet to die like Karen Carpenter.
I know, a lot of people are thiinking, "Give it a rest, Rgirl. Sasha looks fine." Every girl I worked with who died within 5-10 years of the best treatment in the world--and I don't mean me, I just got them to the specialists and talked to them--looked "just fine" said their own mothers. "Wish I had anorexia," said their fellow dancers. "You look great!" They all "looked fine" if you didn't know what to look for, which I discussed a little above.
Honestly, I'm having trouble not saying what I know I should be saying but can't for various reasons, legal issues being one. So I'll stop for now.
Rgirl
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
Rgirl: I certainly hope that your concerns about Sasha turn out to be groundless, however, I myself have seen some photos from this season (the past several months), where she definitely seemed to be more than a bit thinner than in the past, especially her upper body. Her appearance in this photo from TEB is very similar to one I saw from Campbell's that had me wondering.
http://www.pixieworld.net/viewphtgr...6&totalRows_main=7&pageNum_photos=0&pht=13053
BTW, I think she looked much more muscular and toned in the COI photos -- and when I saw her in COI she didn't seem to be so thin. Of course, that was more than 8 months ago now.
http://www.pixieworld.net/viewphtgr...6&totalRows_main=7&pageNum_photos=0&pht=13053
BTW, I think she looked much more muscular and toned in the COI photos -- and when I saw her in COI she didn't seem to be so thin. Of course, that was more than 8 months ago now.
RG- you said that you think Khorkina might be "fine" because of the way her body is built. But this girl really is scary-thin. I have another picture of her from a side view and one can easily tell there's something going on.
http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/5...593C4B94D7A45B2AD61A83AFD4321781CF461BB6606AD
http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/5...593C4B94D7A4569B81AB92F514C0D781CF461BB6606AD
Now, say what you will, but I'm not so sure it's healthy for ANYONE to be that thin...
Plus, in that other picture she looked like she was more filled out.
Now, by the same logic, to deduce that Cohen has an eating problem, one must know how she is SUPPOSED to look at that height/build. You said that if that gymnast were shorter, she'd look "just like Sasha". Well, then what makes Sasha's case so unique? In that case, Cohen is just fine.
So, my question to the posters who think Cohen is thin is: well, what is she SUPPOSED to look like? Show me a picture of her when she was "normal size" and then show me a picture of her now. Besides, I'd wait a while to see if she gets any thinner before even possibly thinking about questioning her condition. But that's just me. If people want to continue to speculate about this topic, they can.
http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/5...593C4B94D7A45B2AD61A83AFD4321781CF461BB6606AD
http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/5...593C4B94D7A4569B81AB92F514C0D781CF461BB6606AD
Now, say what you will, but I'm not so sure it's healthy for ANYONE to be that thin...
Plus, in that other picture she looked like she was more filled out. Now, by the same logic, to deduce that Cohen has an eating problem, one must know how she is SUPPOSED to look at that height/build. You said that if that gymnast were shorter, she'd look "just like Sasha". Well, then what makes Sasha's case so unique? In that case, Cohen is just fine.
So, my question to the posters who think Cohen is thin is: well, what is she SUPPOSED to look like? Show me a picture of her when she was "normal size" and then show me a picture of her now. Besides, I'd wait a while to see if she gets any thinner before even possibly thinking about questioning her condition. But that's just me. If people want to continue to speculate about this topic, they can.
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