ISU Communication 1860 "Ice Dance Requirements for technical rules with ongoing validity"

[FSGMT]

Looks like they changed something about ring/doughnut position in lifts too.

2013 Rule:
full doughnut/ring: upper body arched back, with one or both feet almost touching the head in a full circle (maximum of half a blade length between head and blade);​

2014 Rule:
full doughnut/ring combined with difficult hold/interaction between partners: upper body arched back, with one or both feet almost touching the head in a full circle (maximum of half a blade length between head and blade);​

I don't know what difficult hold means but Shibutanis and Sinitsina/Zhiganshin looked more difficult to me because of no shoulder balance.

Shbutanis 2013 FD
http://youtu.be/uLxkryl5BaM?t=1m30s
Sinitsina/Zhiganshin 2014 SD
http://youtu.be/WQuEKBDy6jk?t=1m19s

Other examples:

Virtue/Moir FD 2013
http://youtu.be/AicVw3FzAeU?t=4m16s
Virtue/Moir SD 2013
http://youtu.be/t46vJL8ABrs?t=3m12s
Virtue/Moir SD 2014
http://youtu.be/gzUKvQBX8UI?t=3m
Virtue/Moir FD 2014
http://youtu.be/_FSAseScTHE?t=3m9s
Ilinykh/Katsalapov SD 2014
http://youtu.be/4oeImGkAij0?t=3m35s
Ilinykh/Katsalapov FD 2014
http://youtu.be/fkzuwoNa5-k?t=1m41s

I don't really understand this rule, too... but to me V/M's and I/K's (in the links you posted) don't look "difficult hold/interaction between partners", while the Shibs' looks a lot more physically demanding, to me :think:
(Maybe some native English speaker+used to Ice Dance can help us... Doris? )

 

[elif]

ISU does something like that every year. Remember one of the features of one hand/arm lift? They only writed ''significantly changes the level of his skating legs (knees) with a continuous motion'' OK but at competition they didn't give credit for this feature because it was not enough. I believe Poje and Poirier lost a level for that in season. Thankfully this year they added information. It had to be ''at least three rotations'' Why they didn't do that last year?

 

[dorispulaski]

At the ISU Congress coming up, people will ask for clarification of these rules, and soon after, they will publish an ISU Communication that lists questions and answers. I eagerly await its publication.

 

[Ryan O]

ISU does something like that every year. Remember one of the features of one hand/arm lift? They only writed ''significantly changes the level of his skating legs (knees) with a continuous motion'' OK but at competition they didn't give credit for this feature because it was not enough. I believe Poje and Poirier lost a level for that in season. Thankfully this year they added information. It had to be ''at least three rotations'' Why they didn't do that last year?

Poje and Poirier are skating together now?

Do you mean both ice dance teams were penalized for using these moves?

 

[dorispulaski]

Yes, both teams lost levels this season on lifts.

 

[Ladskater]

I'm not pleased about it, but perhaps it won't make a huge difference. It's still a risk, though. Many people consider ice dance boring because it's basically composed of spins and footwork, and the lifts are one of the only things that make it interesting to some audiences.

Dance doesn't have triple jumps or quads or throws or the huge lifts they do in pairs, so if you take away too many dance lifts, you risk making it less interesting and creative.

Oh, I beg to differ. Actually ice dance is mainly about ice dance steps or patterns (set pattern dances) to music. Some of the most interesting dances are the Killian, the Quick Step and the Rhumba because of the speed and sure footed moves required of the dancers. Incorporating the basic moves from these dances is what makes for an interesting ice dance free program. Ice dance is not about lifts alone.

http://www.ice-dance.com/main/technical-reference/dance-patterns-descriptions

 

[Ryan O]

Yes, both teams lost levels this season on lifts.

Do you mean deductions for extended lifts? I remember G&P got one of those at NHK where they debuted the Hitchcock program, but I can't remember if it happened at any other time this season. I think W&P may have gotten one in the SD at the Olympics. I know V&M have gotten them in the past, too.

 

[FSGMT]

Do you mean deductions for extended lifts? I remember G&P got one of those at NHK where they debuted the Hitchcock program, but I can't remember if it happened at any other time this season. I think W&P may have gotten one in the SD at the Olympics. I know V&M have gotten them in the past, too.

No, I think Doris meant that both teams received a level deduction for that (level 3 instead of 4, for example)... I think that for W/P it happened at CoR this past season

 

[WeakAnkles]

Do you mean deductions for extended lifts? I remember G&P got one of those at NHK where they debuted the Hitchcock program, but I can't remember if it happened at any other time this season. I think W&P may have gotten one in the SD at the Olympics. I know V&M have gotten them in the past, too.

I believe the deduction was for not making the rise and fall of the spinning lift big enough.

Yes, really.

 

[dorispulaski]

Yes, it was COR for W&P. I don't recall which competition it was for G&P. Not many teams use that one_armed rotational lift with the rise and fall motion-the relative subjectivity of the guideline for the level is probably why-which is too bad, because it is an interesting lift.

 

[elif]

Twizzle rules are changed too. Now skaters must pick one of those features. Looks like xxcept ''free leg crossed behind above the knee'' every feature will be ugly and hard to do. I try to find some examples but we don't have much. Do you think this twizzles from Kerrs have clear change of side? They didn't change in rotations so maybe its not acceptable for new rules.

1. core of body is shifted off vertical axis*;
2. executing Twizzles with the head bent all the way back with the face to the ceiling*.
3. free leg crossed behind above the knee*;
4. free leg extended to the side or backward at least 45 degree angle from the vertical*;
5. sit position (at least 90 degrees between the thigh and shin of the skating leg)*;
6. changing the level of the skating leg (knee) with a continuous motion*.
7. clear change of side: both partners cross pattern at least once during the rotations*;
8. Set of Twizzles performed following one another face to face*;
9. Set of Twizzles performed following one another back to back*.

 

[GF2445]

My goodness who makes these rules!

 

[WeakAnkles]

My goodness who makes these rules!

From the looks of it, I'd say Daffy Duck. On LSD. Though the twizzle in combo with changing the level of the knee might give an interesting kind of corkscrew effect. So make that Daffy Duck. On LSD. Drinking wine. Several bottles of wine. At the same time.

 

[caitie]

Oh man, I'm so bummed out that we will basically have three lift free dances now. I didn't like the elimination of one lift but I figured oh well there will still be four! But if the choreo spin is worth more than the lift (WHY) then ugh, basically we are down to three lifts and probs no combo lifts.

Boo.

 

[sneakypie]

1. core of body is shifted off vertical axis*;

Does this mean people will get higher levels for almost falling out of Twizzles now?

1. sit position (at least 90 degrees between the thigh and shin of the skating leg)*;

Can you even do a Twizzle in the sit position? I imagine it would look really strange and have next to no ice coverage.

 

[elif]

Can you even do a Twizzle in the sit position? I imagine it would look really strange and have next to no ice coverage.

Hanyu did something like that but I'm not sure.

http://youtu.be/Q0RBtPX2bLI?t=2m57s

 

[GF2445]

Hanyu did something like that but I'm not sure.

http://youtu.be/Q0RBtPX2bLI?t=2m57s

It can actually look quite cool. Hurtado and Diaz did the sit spin twizzle a couple of years ago and it looked cool but I dont want everybody to start doing it.
I appreciate that the ISU is recognizing more options but the fact that they are listing what they consider 'creative' does not allow for choreographers and people on skater's coaching teams to make something of their own. Giving us a bigger cookie cutter does not stop programs from becoming cookie cutter programs.

Now I want cookies!
#I'mHungry

 

[caitie]

Hanyu did something like that but I'm not sure.

http://youtu.be/Q0RBtPX2bLI?t=2m57s

Ooof, I got caught up in the performance and was not expecting that random fall on footwork that happens a few seconds later!

 

[IcyEdges]

Can you even do a Twizzle in the sit position? I imagine it would look really strange and have next to no ice coverage.

Yes, it's possible and it does look pretty cool, but it's not something that should be required. It's going to lose it's effect if everyone is doing it IMHO.

 

[Alba]

http://www.rtve.es/alacarta/videos/...ra-ritmo-pasodoble-proxima-temporada/2554850/

Antonio Najarro, Director of Nation Ballet of Spain, at work with spanish skaters for the Paso Doble. It says that French and Canadians as well are working with him.