ISU Where Will Worlds BE (formerly) JAPAN QUAKE FOR WORLDS

[Mathman]

I hate to be a party-pooper, but I really don't see any alternative than just to cancel the event due to "tragic events beyond our control." This will disappoint skaters in terns of opportunity loss, but that's what "due to events beyond our control" means.

Planning for large-scale international competitions begins years, not months, in advance. As for the October in japan idea, that would really be unfair to the skaters who would be left hanging all summer only to face an announcement in September, "due to continued high levels of radiation, beyond our control,..."

I think the ISU should acknowledge reality, cancel 2011 worlds with sorrow, and then in October, conditions permitting, stage a triumphant "figure skating is back" gala in Japan, based on the missed Team Trophy format.

(JMO.)

 

[bekalc]

I gotta tell you the more I read the more disgusted I get day to day, and that's the honest to God truth (though there was the brief hilarious respite with Hersh's article). Still, it's hard to hold one's tongue.

So I will say this, I stand strong & firm in my belief that Worlds should not be held, absolutely nothing will persuade me otherwise.

And I'll be blunt as can be, I am viscerally disgusted with this "ME, ME, ME", "NOW, NOW, NOW!" culture. :disagree: No respect whatsoever.

The country of Japan was rewarded these World Championships, no other, and as a courtesy to them it should be cancelled in the event they cannot hold it within a reasonable time frame, which is the month of April. And as it has been very obvious from the beginning they cannot hold it, then it should be cancelled. Period. And My God I'm not even going to talk about the reason why, chief among them the dead.

NOT thrown together like some mickey mouse, ticky tack toe event to whomever, just for the sake of having it!!!! This is why countries are awarded such a prestigious event at most a couple of years ahead of time, at worst 6 months, not 6 weeks!

Anyhow, I'm not going to go on & on about this issue, just couldn't hold my tongue any longer. I've said my piece this past week, now I await the final word from the ISU. Like the old proverb says silence is golden...

How does cancelling Worlds benefit the dead. And the Japanese have many excellent skaters who could win medals, many of the Japanese fans may want to see Daisuke fight to retain his world title.

This isn't Japanese nationals-its world championships, and no host nation's right to hold worlds should be more important than the skaters rights to have it.

Many skaters livelhoods are affected by this.

Obviously what is happening in Japan is horrific and everything needs to be done to help the victims. But if worlds was cancelled every time there was a tragedy, we'd never have it. And I don't see how denying the skaters something they've worked their entire lives for, and some may never have this kind of opportunity. Even if Davis/White have another worlds, will they have as clearly another shot to win? What if another team is on top by next year? Don't see them being denied what they worked for their entire lives helps the victims.

Let me say this is its not possible logistically or financially to hold worlds, I'll completely understand. But I"m tired of it being said that it has to be done out of respect for the victims. Many who probably have far greater things to worry about at this point.

I hate to be a party-pooper, but I really don't see any alternative than just to cancel the event due to "tragic events beyond our control." This will disappoint skaters in terns of opportunity loss, but that's what "due to events beyond our control" means.

Planning for large-scale international competitions begins years, not months, in advance. As for the October in japan idea, that would really be unfair to the skaters who would be left hanging all summer only to face an announcement in September, "due to continued high levels of radiation, beyond our control,..."

I think the ISU should acknowledge reality, cancel 2011 worlds with sorrow, and then in October, conditions permitting, stage a triumphant "figure skating is back" gala in Japan, based on the missed Team Trophy format.

Yes but if nations who are experienced are saying they can do it why not let them do it. If the Russian government says they will make worlds happen, why not let them. It may not be as much glamour as normal worlds, but if it allows skaters to close out their season etc, GP assignments to be set, why not.

It seems like the logistics of their plan could really work. They have a rink that fits 14,000. The rink comes with a practice facility attached. They have hotels all around, and have even mentioned some. Moscow has two international airports with direct flights all over the world. If the government approves, visas can be streamlined.

Figure skating is one of the most popular sports in Russia. Ice Age stars are huge. They may be able to get fans to come. And given Moscow is a huge city, it will be easier for fans to come than in events like Lake Placid, or Colorado Springs.

 

[KKonas]

The offers to host Worlds in spring came directly from the head of the sports ministry in Russia, and from other officials in other countries. And the only reporter who said Worlds should be hosted in spring that I read is Scott Russell, who has reported on not just figure skating, but Olympics, hockey, football for many decades, who has seen the organization of more major events than most of us have been to.

Re Russell - holding international figure skating events is a lot different than hockey or football. I worked 6 Olympic Winter Games, 2 Goodwill Games, and more than 80 other figure skating competitions and shows over nearly 30 years.

I am hearing now that Piseev has done a 180 and says Moscow can hold Worlds in May under 3 conditions. Government support, a great Organizing Committee that can cut thru red tape, and lots of money. At least Piseev knows what it takes to hold Worlds. My hat is off to him if he can pull it off.

 

[janetfan]

I have read several comments that even a "no frills" Worlds would be better than nothing. I am not sure what that means (maybe fewer ceremonies when the zamboni is resurfacing the ice between groups? ).

Has a splintered Worlds been suggested?
Why not break them up by discipline. For example, if just the Ladies event were to be held in S. Korea does anybody doubt there would be a lack of ticket sales or interest? If S. Korea might have trouble hosting the whole event on short notice surely they could handle just the Ladies.

USA in various locations could probably handle and get decent ticket sales for the Ladies especially a West coast location.

If Russia thinks it could pull off the whole event certainly they could handle the Pairs event. Or maybe the Pairs and Dance.

Vancouver obvioulsly has world class facilities and could host Men or maybe Dance. They could not only draw Western Canada but also fans from the US Pacific NW.

Torino and Lausanne were mentioned and if they were considering hosting the whole event then it seems that hosting one of the disciplines would be in the realm of possibilties.

Just a thought and I seriously doubt that Korea would need 4 years let alone 4 months to pull off a pretty good Ladies event. Same for LA, Colo Springs and probably other US locations.

Maybe there are good reasons not to do it this way, but it might be easier for several federations to host a discipline as opposed to the entire event.

They could also be held on different week/ends if there are not enough ISU officials/judges to be in separate locations.

 

[Violet Bliss]

I hate to be a party-pooper, but I really don't see any alternative than just to cancel the event due to "tragic events beyond our control." This will disappoint skaters in terns of opportunity loss, but that's what "due to events beyond our control" means.

Planning for large-scale international competitions begins years, not months, in advance. As for the October in japan idea, that would really be unfair to the skaters who would be left hanging all summer only to face an announcement in September, "due to continued high levels of radiation, beyond our control,..."

I think the ISU should acknowledge reality, cancel 2011 worlds with sorrow, and then in October, conditions permitting, stage a triumphant "figure skating is back" gala in Japan, based on the missed Team Trophy format.

(JMO.)

Let me tell you a real story of how things can get done:

How Iceland Air Kept Flying When British Airways Was Grounded

When planes were at a standstill in England, and in Europe, the pilots of an Iceland air plane that was about to take off were informed they could not do so, as there was not enough snow clearing equipment to clear a path for the refueling car. Rather then facing an overnight stay, the captain and co-pilot, took matters and shovels into their own hands. Some 15 minutes of shovelling later, the path was cleared, the plane refueled and went airborne.

That is how Icelandic pilots deal with winter challenges. Perhaps Britain and other countries could learn from that example.

Most work, like house chores, expands to fill the time alotted and available. There is usually not so much that actually needs to be done when there is a concerted will so that egos/vanities, money siphonning, self interests, job-justifiying time-filling procedures, secondary goals, personal agendas, and self-serving opportunity-creations, etc, etc, are stripped away.

During the space race, the Americans spent years of research and $millions to invent an anti-gravity pen as featured in the Seinfeld show. The Russians used pencils in space.

It's time for a functioning pencil, not a fancy schmancy anti-gravity pen.

 

[Tonichelle]

as I recall, after 9-11 a show benefitting the USFSA Memorial Fund went on as planned - with the smoke of the towers still covering much of NYC. It was to tribute the 1961 team that died in the crash. Much like the show that happened this past season for the same memorial, many USFSA alum and current team skated in honor and memory of the downed team. They also skewed teh show to tribute the people killed in the Terror attacks and the nation that supported them. As an American, I don't recall thinking it too soon, wrong, and certainly I did not think it dishonored those who died. In fact one of the skaters was a sister of one of the men who fought the terrorists on teh plane that went down in Pennsylvania. IIRC there wasn't a dry eye in the place (or online) when she skated (she had just retired from national competition and came back just to honor her brother).

I know Worlds is a little bigger than a skating show, but I think the message is still the same.

 

[Mathman]

Let me tell you a real story of how things can get done:

How Iceland Air Kept Flying When British Airways Was Grounded

Off topic, but you can always get me with an Icelandic Airways story. Back in the 1960s, for some reason Icelandic Airways was able to offer student fares from the U.S. to cities in Europe for a fraction of the commercial fares of other airlines. Many a long-haired U.S. hippy was able to enjoy the experience of back-packing his or her way across the continent, thanks to Icelandic Airways.

 

[colleen o'neill]

I'm for a functioning pencil !

 

[janetfan]

I'm for a functioning pencil !

And I'll take the pen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yYTBUebO8M&feature=related

If some think the pen was expensive they should consider the millions and millions the cast of Seinfeld raked in over the years. Compared to that the cost of the astronault pen was mere chump change.

 

[Serious Business]

Canceling Worlds to honor Japan makes as much sense as letting a friend's pet die because he's laid up in the hospital. "Well, they were his pets, if anybody else feeds them just because he can't, that's like... so disrespectful!"

 

[sidwich]

Most work, like house chores, expands to fill the time alotted and available. There is usually not so much that actually needs to be done when there is a concerted will so that egos/vanities, money siphonning, self interests, job-justifiying time-filling procedures, secondary goals, personal agendas, and self-serving opportunity-creations, etc, etc, are stripped away.
.

I think the issue isn't just the ISU, federations, skaters, coaches, etc. If it only involved those people, I would say, yes, if everyone put their own egos aside, maybe an event could be held this spring. But a big event like Worlds, involves hundreds of third-party vendors who also have to get on board, and yeah, sorry, those people have to make a living and aren't going to work for free.

For example, venue. Most large venues book events, years in advance and have events virtually every day. For example, in the next month, Staples Center hosts the Lakers, the Clippers, the Kings, and numerous concerts, and sometimes multiple events in the same day. Would the ISU and the USFSA be asking those people to move their event for free? Not likely. What about all those folks that have bought Lady Gaga tickets for her concert next month? Are they going to get their tickets refunded? Who is going to pay for that?

Hotels. Wherever Worlds is going to be has to have enough hotel rooms around. Most hotels will have booked rooms well in advance, so it's unlikely that any one hotel is going to have large blocks of rooms left at this stage. Are the organizers going to buy try to buy out those rooms (probably very expensive) or put people in potentially dozens of different hotels (which is going to cause transportation issues).

Just from a planning perspective, I'm pretty sure that October was chosen as a possible date because I don't think that you can plan a major event like Worlds without at least six months advance notice.

 

[wallylutz]

I gotta tell you the more I read the more disgusted I get day to day, and that's the honest to God truth (though there was the brief hilarious respite with Hersh's article). Still, it's hard to hold one's tongue.

So I will say this, I stand strong & firm in my belief that Worlds should not be held, absolutely nothing will persuade me otherwise.

And I'll be blunt as can be, I am viscerally disgusted with this "ME, ME, ME", "NOW, NOW, NOW!" culture. :disagree: No respect whatsoever.

The country of Japan was rewarded these World Championships, no other, and as a courtesy to them it should be cancelled in the event they cannot hold it within a reasonable time frame, which is the month of April. And as it has been very obvious from the beginning they cannot hold it, then it should be cancelled. Period. And My God I'm not even going to talk about the reason why, chief among them the dead.

NOT thrown together like some mickey mouse, ticky tack toe event to whomever, just for the sake of having it!!!! This is why countries are awarded such a prestigious event at most a couple of years ahead of time, at worst 6 months, not 6 weeks!

Anyhow, I'm not going to go on & on about this issue, just couldn't hold my tongue any longer. I've said my piece this past week, now I await the final word from the ISU. Like the old proverb says silence is golden...

Do you feel Joannie Rochette should have withdrawn from the Vancouver Olympics upon hearing her mother's death and go hide in some closet, put on a black dress and cry? Or was she disrespectful towards her mother for competing?

And just what makes you think canceling the World Championship = sign of respect towards the country of Japan. Are you an expert on Japanese culture or have you done a survey of Japanese fans? We have heard indications that canceling the event may in fact be against the wishes of the majority of Japanese fans so why are you being so judgmental towards others?

 

[Mathman]

Has a splintered Worlds been suggested?

Why not break them up by discipline. For example, if just the Ladies event were to be held in S. Korea does anybody doubt there would be a lack of ticket sales or interest?...

I love this idea! It is imaginative and original. :yes:

It might turn out to be impractical in terms of extra co-ordination between separate events, but still...

 

[wallylutz]

Moscow is really serious about taking over the hosting of 2011 Worlds

http://www.google.com/hostednews/af...ocId=CNG.95f9b9f20edd3efc25f9c596f8b4c2cb.341

I believe they can do it.

 

[Violet Bliss]

sidwich, when a federation or a Ministry Of Sports offers to organize Worlds at short notice, it's not necessary to worry about their logistics and turn them down because you can't imagine how this could be done in your part of the world. They don't need the Staple Center nor have they booked Lady Gaga. Consider what they offer, get assurance, and make a choice that best suits the purpose. Then cooperate and facilitate and get everybody involved to do the same. E.g. In the case of Russia, since the government is involved, they may expedite visa procedures by accepting those already approved by Japan for Worlds.

 

[wallylutz]

I think the issue isn't just the ISU, federations, skaters, coaches, etc. If it only involved those people, I would say, yes, if everyone put their own egos aside, maybe an event could be held this spring. But a big event like Worlds, involves hundreds of third-party vendors who also have to get on board, and yeah, sorry, those people have to make a living and aren't going to work for free.

Speaking from my experience, what you said is true however you also seem to think major events can't be put together on short notice, which is not true. Some vendors are critical, others are less. And so long as they are getting paid, they will find a way to get things moving quickly. Your suggestion that they have to work for free is puzzling. Faster service isn't free.

For example, venue. Most large venues book events, years in advance and have events virtually every day. For example, in the next month, Staples Center hosts the Lakers, the Clippers, the Kings, and numerous concerts, and sometimes multiple events in the same day. Would the ISU and the USFSA be asking those people to move their event for free? Not likely. What about all those folks that have bought Lady Gaga tickets for her concert next month? Are they going to get their tickets refunded? Who is going to pay for that?

Fortunately in North America, due to the hockey playoffs, teams who have not made it, will suddenly have a venue available for rent. Since those are recent developments and those venues could not have been rented without knowing who will or will not make it to the playoffs, major venues will not be short in supply, contrary to your mistaken belief. While a place like the Staples Center will almost always something major planned - it is not required to have such a grandiose venue for the World Championship. So long as they are willing to be flexible, venues in North America really is not a problem especially in April or May as sports start to move outdoor.

Hotels. Wherever Worlds is going to be has to have enough hotel rooms around. Most hotels will have booked rooms well in advance, so it's unlikely that any one hotel is going to have large blocks of rooms left at this stage. Are the organizers going to buy try to buy out those rooms (probably very expensive) or put people in potentially dozens of different hotels (which is going to cause transportation issues).

At conventions, it is VERY COMMON for the event to have multiple official hotels and it is the same when USFS last organized the World Championship in Los Angeles in 2009. Again, speaking from experience, the 2009 Worlds had probably 4 or 5 official hotels, all within walkable vicinity of Staples Center. I have directly worked in these negotiations with hotel vendors and finding a solution really is not as difficult as you think, even on short notice. The bottom line is your assumption of extremely high occupancy rate has no reasonable basis. Some hotels will be more occupied than others and some cities will have more availability than others. And yes, sometimes, hotels do walk people if necessary. This is not a major obstacle towards hosting the World Championship, so I feel obliged to correct you.

Just from a planning perspective, I'm pretty sure that October was chosen as a possible date because I don't think that you can plan a major event like Worlds without at least six months advance notice.

Well, you don't need 6 moths to host a scaled down emergency replacement event so long as there is enough funding. So I disagree, I think you can, so long as money is there. Hence, I am not surprise now Pissev has done a 180 now that his country's Government is officially backing it and supposedly, with their deep pockets as well. Though I have questions as to whether the U.S. can host this event because I don't see how USFS can make this a profitable event and if ain't going to make money, as a rule of thumb, it won't fly in America. If profits is not a concern as it seems to be the case in Russia, then contrary to what KKonas stated, the preparation time can be cut down significantly.

 

[oksanafan]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/af...ocId=CNG.95f9b9f20edd3efc25f9c596f8b4c2cb.341

I believe they can do it.

Looks like things are moving towards the WC being held in Russia given the following:-

http://www.championat.ru/other/news-762779.html

 

[Violet Bliss]

And I'll take the pen

It's nice if you can just take it. So would anybody, including the Russian astronaults. But it was just a concept then. It was deemed necessary because the Americans were so smart and so rich that cheap functional alternatives were not considered. Why should they, when there was a virutally unlimited budget for the project?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yYTBUebO8M&feature=related

If some think the pen was expensive they should consider the millions and millions the cast of Seinfeld raked in over the years. Compared to that the cost of the astronault pen was mere chump change.

1. Inflation.

2. Private profits. The show made money on the idea, which was free to the writers who got paid for coming up with it as did everyone involved in the show including the cast. The success and profitability of the show had nothing to do with the costs of any original innovation or event it was based on.

Would you rather take the ultra expensive early models of computers, VCR, portable phones, and plasma TV or the cheap current models? Wouldn't it be nice if some original inventors were able to skip the early clunkers and come directly to the latest or even future designs? Fact is there are almost always limitations to the mind by existing reality such that break throughs are usually incremental. The truly ingenious face disbelief, ridicules, and even ostracism instead of support and facilitation to bring their ideas to fruition.

The world needs more open minds instead of micromanaging and limiting others according to our own knowledge. I put forth this conclusion to make all this blah blah blah not OT but an encouragement for alternative Worlds.

 

[Olympia]

I love this idea! It is imaginative and original. :yes:

It might turn out to be impractical in terms of extra co-ordination between separate events, but still...

I agree, Math. I like Hernando's idea of a "splintered" Worlds very much. These days with electronic connections, it's just one step away from a virtual Worlds. It's just offbeat enough to succeed. Though imagine a coach who has two skaters of different disciplines!

 

[janetfan]

It's nice if you can just take it. So would anybody, including the Russian astronaults. But it was just a concept then. It was deemed necessary because the Americans were so smart and so rich that cheap functional alternatives were not considered. Why should they, when there was a virutally unlimited budget for the project?

1. Inflation.

2. Private profits. The show made money on the idea, which was free to the writers who got paid for coming up with it as did everyone involved in the show including the cast. The success and profitability of the show had nothing to do with the costs of any original innovation or event it was based on.

Would you rather take the ultra expensive early models of computers, VCR, portable phones, and plasma TV or the cheap current models? Wouldn't it be nice if some original inventors were able to skip the early clunkers and come directly to the latest or even future designs? Fact is there are almost always limitations to the mind by existing reality such that break throughs are usually incremental. The truly ingenious face disbelief, ridicules, and even ostracism instead of support and facilitation to bring their ideas to fruition.

The world needs more open minds instead of micromanaging and limiting others according to our own knowledge. I put forth this conclusion to make all this blah blah blah not OT but an encouragement for alternative Worlds.

I thought my idea of splitting Worlds with different federations hosting a discipline was more innovative than most of what I have read here and certainly more on point than having pilots from Iceland shoveling snow or pens that write upside down.

I also don't recall any pencil wielding astronaults walking on the moon. Apparently those guys were lacking something. Most likely it was innovation. :think: