James/Radford announce partnership

[BlissfulSynergy]

When she realized, over the past two weeks, that she didn't feel the way she did when Eric first called to inform her, the brave thing to do would have been to reach out to talk to him about her true feelings. (A lot of people have attacked Eric for not having the courage to talk to her earlier, but that evaluation cuts both ways.) Instead, she broadcast to the world via twitter etc. that she'd re-thought her initial reaction and her feelings were hurt. If she didn't think this would create negative feelings for Eric and the new partnership, she's more naive than I am, or perhaps she thinks he deserves it.

If she had talked to Eric first, then her experiences and feelings could have opened the door to heal whatever rifts his behavior had caused; and that's a valid way to help people and create change. It's a valid way to stand up for herself. I know it's "what might have been" ... but later, they might have told their experiences in joint form and thus been an example for ways to stand up for oneself without inflicting more hurt.

I personally don’t think Meagan owes anyone anything, including Eric, the fans, or future pairs who might benefit from her experiences.

As @skylark pointed out, her posted comments are in response to what Meagan herself said about wanting to 'speak her truth' in order to help others deal with similar hurtful experiences. I don't see @skylark saying that Meagan 'owes' anything to anyone.

I agree with your above comments @skylark re how much better it might have been for Meagan to put into practice what she complains that Eric failed to do.

This whole situation I have been reflecting on after a couple of speeches at the Oscar Awards this evening resonated with me. Only the second ever woman director won the Best Director Oscar: Chloe Zhao. The film Zhao directed, starring Frances McDormand (who won Best Actress), Nomadland, is available for streaming on Hulu, or viewing in theaters too. In her speech, Zhao spoke of how she used to recite classic Chinese poetry with her father as a child. One particular passage from a poem has always stayed with her: "People at birth are inherently good." Zhao then picked up her Oscar and said, "This is for anyone who has the faith and the courage to hold onto the goodness in themselves and to hold onto the goodness in each other."

What Zhao said early in the broadcast was brought full circle in Tyler Perry's acceptance speech for the Jean Hersholt Humanitarian Award. I've heard about Perry's many wonderful acts of kindness, but I learned during the broadcast even more about the kind things he has done for those in need. He doesn't help people though because he wants thanks. It's just that his mother always told him to care about other people, and to not look around for others to be the heroes. Even in adversity, Perry's mother would say to him to find a way forward. In his speech Perry spoke about his mother teaching him "to refuse hate, to refuse blanket judgment..." He went on to say in an uplifting way that in the midst of today's negatively saturated news cycle that we should all try to refuse hate and to make an effort to stand in the middle, where healing can happen.

There usually are inspirational words spoken at the Oscar ceremonies every year. I recall many inspirational moments, including one memorable speech some years ago by Jeff Bridges who talked about being one of the spokes that keep the wheel turning. Some people didn't seem to understand what his analogy was all about. LOL. But I got it! Anyway, my overall point is, that of course nothing is easy and people disappoint us and life disappoints us all the time. It's about finding a way to pull something out of ourselves that can overcome the pain. It's about reaching outside of ourselves, instead of fanning the flames of hurt and of hate. Seems like lofty, pie-in-the-sky for sure. But maybe baby steps or taking a moment to pause and to not make everything about our own pain. Ah well, I think I'm talking myself into stop feeling sorry for myself for my own current woes and complaints about others close to me.

 

[brightphoton]

And here's the "wish them well" article for Haven and Brandon.

Haven Denney, Brandon Frazier mark another U.S. pair split

Haven Denney and Brandon Frazier, the 2017 U.S. pair champions, have announced the end of their partnership. The team was the 2013 world junior champions and grew up skating together: first on roller skates before making the transition to ice.

“Even though our competitive chapter as a pair is over, these memories we created together will last a lifetime,” Frazier posted in part on Facebook. “It was a privilege to be able to have the opportunity to skate with you [Denney] and learn life’s most important lessons through sport.”

Frazier plans to continue skating, while Denney said through U.S. Figure Skating that she wants to keep all of her options open:

“I support Brandon and his decision to continue competitive skating with another partner,” Denney said. “I want Brandon to be able to reach his goals and full potential and I will support him no matter what. I’m still trying to figure out what’s next for me. I want to keep all my options opened, whether it be competitive or professional skating. I want to thank all the coaches that have supported us throughout the years.”

Haven Denney, Brandon Frazier mark another U.S. pair split

Denney and Frazier were the 2017 U.S. gold medalists and grew up skating together: first on roller skates before making the transition to ice.

olympics.nbcsports.com

 

[ice coverage]

... I said ten screens ago, and I say again now, in these situations, I have always seen a quote from the former partner. "I have heard that Skater X has teamed with Skater Y and I wish them well". Always. Unless of course they do not wish them well, in which case, that would be a good thing to know too ...

You won't find them "skaters found a new partner" articles. You have to go back to the original "skaters from original pair end partnership" article. The older article will have the "wish them well" message. ...

It was el henry who said that she always has seen a quote from the former partner in a *new-partnership announcement.*
(The post of mine that you quoted was a counterexample in response to her.)

Thx for your posts, brightphoton.

 

[solani]

If Eric wanted to pursue doing shows with Meagan, he would have called her and said : hi Meagan, i want to compete again... I know you are done... How would you feel if I competed again? This being said, I would like to keep skating with you for our usual shows.
That did not happen, did it? So, at this point, it's no longer possible.

 

[brightphoton]

It was el henry who said that she always has seen a quote from the former partner in a new-partnership announcement.

Thx for your post, brightphoton.

I'm not going to dig through the everything el henry posted, but from what I read, I understood it as the former partner would give a quote about their former partner finding success, possibly on their personal social media or Facebook or in real life. Whether or not a reporter deemed it important enough to put in the newspaper is something else entirely

 

[DSQ]

After watching the interview, what really upset her is the "FACT" to use her words, the Eric was planning SOI Canada fall tours with her, WHILE training with Vanessa... and the "FACT" that many people in the skating world knew and advise Eric to tell Meagan as soon as possible, but he chose to only tell her when Vanessa got released. That's a classic case of "cheating husband" (that's my opinion)

After she left TSL made a really good point that in the world of work what Eric did is standard operating procedure and the responsible thing to do. That is to have something lined up before you leave your current job. But in a relationship, as you implied, it’s totally wrong. Skating relationships straddle that professional and personal status.

Hearing all this does make Eric come across as cowardly but I’m still gonna watch his new partnership and wish them well. Not to reward his behaviour but because his actions, while distasteful, are definitely in the personal realm which I consider not to be relevant to a professional career. That is unless those personal actions are at the Ryan Giggs level (had an eight year affair with his brothers wife) or criminal (like Morgan Cipres).

 

[chasingneverland]

They straight out accused Sergei Rozanov of being in relationship with Aliona last I heard. And let's not forget the time they called Liza Tuk fat.

Oh I wish they HAD accused Sergei of that. No, they acted like it was hot gossip.

Honestly though, a lot of their guests, including Meagan, aren't any better though.

 

[chasingneverland]

I don't see how the federation betrayed anyone here. How Eric chooses to handle his relationship with Meagan (poorly, in this case) is between them.

There are multiple steps to getting release. They were involved in Vanessa's release from France.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I would tend to think that there isn't a specific formula utilized to announce a new pairing or to announce a break-up across federations. Every situation for particular skaters is different. Sometimes announcements aren't made right away when there are break-ups or new pairings. It varies depending upon the individual circumstances, particularly when differences are involved. With the advent of social media, sometimes skaters post about new partnerships or splits on Instagram, but not always.

There are all kinds of break-ups that have happened in pairs and in ice dance that have involved hurt feelings, or lack of good communication. And in the case of younger skaters, parental involvement. The break-up between Yamaguchi/Galindo comes to mind from long ago. At least many years later, there was a measure of reconciliation and healing. Rudy ended up achieving his own hard-won success, writing a well-received biography and even coaching Yamaguchi's young daughter. In the case of Duhamel/Radford, the after-retirement comeback with a different partner is somewhat unusual. Some fans are reminded of Savchenko coming back with Massot. However, Savchenko had begun considering a partnership with Massot knowing that Robin did not want to continue with eligible competition. The problem was that Robin was left high-and-dry believing he would be skating in shows with Aliona. Although some fans remarked on Robin's dilemma, there wasn't a huge outcry or outpouring of sympathy for Robin. Fortunately, Nina Mozer reached out to offer Robin a coaching position, which was helpful. I wonder what Robin is doing now, after the U.S. fed-orchestrated engagement with him working with Meno/Sand's group in Irvine, did not seem to pan out.

It is interesting that Meagan confirmed she learned from her coaches in 2014 that Eric had been interested in exploring a partnership with Aliona after the 2014 Sochi Olympics, when Robin was definitely known to be retiring. At that point, Aliona already had her eyes set on Bruno Massot, who had been training with Daria Popova under coach, Ingo Steuer, along with Aliona & Robin. So apparently, Eric had been thinking early on about exploring a different direction. I wonder if Meagan ever spoke to Eric about that particular exploration. Obviously, D/R overcame whatever the hiccough was about and continued to focus on improving together. They ended up winning Worlds twice (2016, 2017). Then, D/R seemed to hit a point of needing to come up with fresh ideas. That's around the same time when James/Cipres broke out under a new coaching team with some great programs and renewed energy and focus.

Meagan was eager to gain some inspiration in Zimmerman's camp, which led to the break-up between Bruno Marcotte and Richard Gauthier. Who knows, perhaps that foray into the Zimmerman camp led to some minor conflict with Julie Marcotte too, who was D/R's choreographer of record at the time. In the Zimmerman camp, D/R worked with Zimmerman and staff on choreo, but D/R later returned to a former program by JMarcotte that same season, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[ice coverage]

I am also of the opinion that the federation handled this poorly, although the "federation" may be some poor intern with not enough guidance and too much to do.

I said ten screens ago, and I say again now, in these situations, I have always seen a quote from the former partner. "I have heard that Skater X has teamed with Skater Y and I wish them well". Always. Unless of course they do not wish them well, in which case, that would be a good thing to know too

I get the impression Skate Canada just thought, wow, no voice will be found wanting in the chorus of praise. And they thought wrong.

I'm not going to dig through the everything el henry posted, but from what I read, I understood it as the former partner would give a quote about their former partner finding success, possibly on their personal social media or Facebook or in real life. Whether or not a reporter deemed it important enough to put in the newspaper is something else entirely

This time I am quoting el henry's full post, which shows that she is speaking of the federation Skate Canada not having a quote from Meagan.

The type of quote that el henry says she always has seen is, "I have heard that Skater X has teamed with Skater Y and I wish them well" -- which would be specifically in reference to a new partnership.

Before your posts, brightphoton, I already was questioning el henry's belief that this type of quote always appears in a federation announcement of a new partnership.
If your posts are trying to convince me of something, there is no need.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Oh I wish they HAD accused Sergei of that.

Why people who believe everything those guys say will now assume Sergei R preys on young teenage girls. That'll be fun as he tries to move on from this trainwreck of a season.

I actually reported them for that to YouTube, alas I got no answer. Nice to know you can slander someone online with no repercussions.

 

[Skater Boy]

Meagan skated with Craig Buntin before she did skate with Eric. There is no drama about their split : he was starting a MBA and had had a long career already, including skating with Valérie Marcoux, who had previously skated with Bruno, Meagan's now husband...

I went to dig up one article about their announcement. I remember following them back in the days... there was no drama at all about this.... Craig is wishing the best to Meagan in her new partnership with Eric, and Meagan is wishing the best to Craig in his studies. However, I have no memories of Eric's split with Anne-Marie Giroux with whom he skated for one season, finishing 8th at Nationals. All I recall is that Richard Gauthier had suggested Eric and Meagan might work well together. I actually have no recollection of the Giroux/Radford partnership at all.

Splits and pairs reshuffling is common at the early stages of a career. To name only one, Zach Daleman has had already 3 partners (Allison Schumacher, Patricia Andrew and now Justine Brasseur) in his very short career as a pair skater. It is another story when the partnership is no longer looking to get medals in the "amateur" competitive circuit but is working on professional tours, aka have converted their success in the competitive world into a business. Meagan was quite candid about the fact that she is now out of a job... as nobody would hire her when they can hire Kaetlyn Osmond or Ashley Wagner.

 

[Skater Boy]

Maybe Megan should team up with Charlie Bilodeau or switch to ladies. I she could skate clean who knows. She would need a triple triple but a woman with a triple lutz who skated clean might be able to win Canadian Nationals. The mention of Zach Daleman - is he large enough to lift his sister? And strong enough with good technique. Might be interesting. I know ERic mentioned there were more opportunities or something to that effect with VAnessa - not so sure if they don't make the olympics and do well I am not sure he will be that marketable - probably better to stay with Megan as for marketablity and recognizeability Can you imagine the Marcotte Christmas dinner - awkward. VAnessa and Eric don't have a lot of time to gel as a team and gain a body of work to compete with Trennt and EVelyn and KTM. O Canada what a mess.

 

[Skater Boy]

TSL hosts were very snide and catty in continually bringing up Morgan Cipres' personal actions, which led to the end of his skating career with Vanessa James. What Morgan Cipres is alleged to have done, has no bearing on the James/Radford partnership, outside of the negative commenting that is being done in an apparent attempt to cast aspersions on Vanessa by association, when she has not been implicated. Simply because Vanessa was Morgan's pairs partner for 10 years and she likely continues to have some emotional connection to such a long term relationship, does not make Vanessa his gatekeeper, his spokesperson, his cleaning woman, or his judge and jury. Vanessa has no control over Morgan's behaviors and actions. She also has no responsibility to make any statements about the situation that occurred. She has the burden of responsibility of picking up the pieces of her own personal losses and moving forward with her life. Everyone who is worried about what happened at the rink in Florida might consider doing something to help organizations who work with victims of sexual abuse, child abuse, trafficking, etc., rather than finger-pointing and sounding off in threads on skating forums, and accusing people who are fans of J/C's skating of enabling Morgan's behavior.

I also notice on some skating forums and on the TSL broadcast a lot of backhanded criticisms of Vanessa in regard to her 'wearing bodysuits to camouflage poor skating skills.' Lots of blatant and subtle put-downs of Vanessa, and now of Eric, abound. SMH. Meanwhile, Vanessa, with her beautiful smile and her courageous, resilient spirit will continue to rise and to put her best foot forward. I choose to see goodness in the desires and in the hearts of Eric and Vanessa. I choose to root for them enjoying this new journey together, however brief or rocky and challenging, or marvelous, inspirational, and uplifting it might prove to be.

To be honest VAnessa is more like Megan - strong and muscular rather than lith and lyrical. Lots have said Vanessa is more graceful but not by much to be objective and Megan technically is superior in respect to individual jumps and throw jumps.

 

[chasingneverland]

Why people who believe everything those guys say will now assume Sergei R preys on young teenage girls. That'll be fun as he tries to move on from this trainwreck of a season.

I actually reported them for that to YouTube, alas I got no answer. Nice to know you can slander someone online with no repercussions.

I meant that I wish they had portrayed it as a negative thing. They're not the ones who originally said it though. They also acted like it was common news, I mean I had heard it before but it wasn't common that's for sure..

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Maybe Megan should team up with Charlie Bilodeau or switch to ladies. I she could skate clean who knows. She would need a triple triple but a woman with a triple lutz who skated clean might be able to win Canadian Nationals. The mention of Zach Daleman - is he large enough to lift his sister? And strong enough with good technique. Might be interesting. I know ERic mentioned there were more opportunities or something to that effect with VAnessa - not so sure if they don't make the olympics and do well I am not sure he will be that marketable - probably better to stay with Megan as for marketablity and recognizeability Can you imagine the Marcotte Christmas dinner - awkward. VAnessa and Eric don't have a lot of time to gel as a team and gain a body of work to compete with Trennt and EVelyn and KTM. O Canada what a mess.

Eh, break-ups are often messy in figure skating. This is not particularly more messy than many other splits, disagreements, misunderstandings, and comebacks in the sport of figure skating. It's only messy to the proportion that it is being touted as such with all of the unnecessary flame-throwing and casting of aspersions. Obviously, Eric could have handled things differently. But as Meagan admits, she understands he was probably 'hedging his bets,' possibly worried about not wanting to 'hurt' her, but more likely interested mainly in securing his own future and pursuing new opportunities in part due to the pandemic and the relative uncertainty of current show prospects with Meagan.

Meagan says that she would have appreciated more openness from Eric sooner. I'm not sure whether more openness sooner would have prevented Meagan's hurt feelings, or her desire to speak out publicly. Possibly an earlier conversation might have led to better communication and perhaps a mutual statement. Or, by sharing early on with Meagan his desire to explore a different direction, it could have blown up the potential new pairing, especially if too much information somehow had gotten leaked too soon prior to Vanessa's release being affirmed.

In any case, it might behoove Meagan and others to take a step back and notice where their criticisms of Eric's faults in this matter, are quite similar to their own.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

To be honest VAnessa is more like Megan - strong and muscular rather than lith and lyrical. Lots have said Vanessa is more graceful but not by much to be objective and Megan technically is superior in respect to individual jumps and throw jumps.

Vanessa is definitely strong and muscular. But her body structure is quite different than Meagan's, which might be a point of discussion some people are interested in engaging in. I don't think we need to get into comparing or over-analyzing women's bodies. Every athlete's body is beautiful and their own, and to be celebrated, respected and appreciated.

Moreover, the success of any partnership involves a lot of factors aside from a physical match-up. Still, as TSL's Dave Lease said (one thing I agree with him about): Vanessa and Eric match well with long lines, i.e., fairly long arms and legs. I haven't seen any comments comparing 'gracefulness' between Meagan and Vanessa. I think such conversations are pointless. It may be more instructive to talk about the possible strengths of this new partnership, rather than engaging in comparisons between the skills and abilities of Meagan vs Vanessa. They are both very strong and determined pairs ladies.

In regard to jumps, Meagan had technically difficult jumps in her arsenal, like the 3-lutz, and the quad-salchow. Vanessa attempted quad-throws with Morgan and stood up on them, though they were two-footed. J/C also were very consistent and solid on their sbs 3-salchows and on their sbs 3-2-2 combo. In addition, J/C worked hard on their 3-twist over the years, and ultimately had an appreciably better 3-twist than D/R. As well, despite their somewhat shallow edges in terms of SS, J/C had great speed over the ice, more-so than D/R. Plus, in their last few seasons, J/C utilized excellent transitions which they weren't often given sufficient credit for executing so well. In the TSL interview yesterday, Meagan mentioned how she and Eric had adjusted jump layout strategy based on their brief training proximity with Vanessa/Morgan.

There has already been lots of previous discussion about what made Eric's and Meagan's partnership work. The biggest key was their mutual ambition and desire, combined with their indefatigable willingness to find a way to overcome their physical differences, which in the beginning was a challenge for them. Kudos to them both for working so hard to make their partnership work. And it did work at its best. I admired D/R for their determination and for their refusal to give in to the disparaging comments that were often thrown at their partnership. That latter attribute may be needed by James/Radford one-hundred-fold!

 

[brightphoton]

This time I am quoting el henry's full post, which shows that she is speaking of the federation Skate Canada not having a quote from Meagan.

The type of quote that el henry says she always has seen is, "I have heard that Skater X has teamed with Skater Y and I wish them well" -- which would be specifically in reference to a new partnership.

Before your posts, brightphoton, I already was questioning el henry's belief that this type of quote always appears in a federation announcement of a new partnership.
If your posts are trying to convince me of something, there is no need.

You're putting words into someone else's mouth. I don't see anything about el henry saying that he believes that "the federal announcement of a new partnership usually has x content or y content." El henry mentioned federations and in a separate paragraph mentioned quotes, and you're putting them together in a way that no one meant.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Maybe Megan should team up with Charlie Bilodeau

Seriously, you are making this wildly improbable suggestion!?

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I think contracts would definitely be a good idea at the pro level.

At the competitive level, I'm dubious that contracts would necessarily be a good idea, at least if the idea is to keep a partnership together when one of the two absolutely doesn't want to be there anymore -- that doesn't sound like a scenario that would breed good competitive results.

I agree with you. So much is often in flux at the competition level. Many contracts would never be entered into in order to avoid the possibility of later lawsuits, because a lot of unanticipated occurrences can change the course of an eligible, competitive level partnership. Maybe at the pro level, but even then, it would likely have to be an event by event, or seasonal type contract, because over a longer period anything can happen to upset the terms of a signed agreement.

And Meagan was far nicer to Eric than I have been. , including saying that although she sees how his statement could be read as sexist, she does not believe he is sexist.

Most likely this is because Meagan knows Eric on a personal level much better than any of us do who are pontificating on skating forums.