Japan Open

[Morning Glory]

Miki

Passion at JO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SKTuIah2i8&feature=player_embedded

Black Swan at CoI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foSJWxxBSjo&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

 

[hikki]

Miki

Passion at JO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SKTuIah2i8&feature=player_embedded

Black Swan at CoI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foSJWxxBSjo&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Love love love Miki's Black Swan! Thanks for uploading.

 

[lionmilk]

Here's the link to the other japan open programs...

http://www.youtube.com/user/Miruna1990#g/u

 

[Violet Bliss]

I want to comment on Miki's JO skate before watiching it, on purpose.

Many have called Miki's skate embarrassing and generally indicating her time having passed. My view is that she may decide to quit competing on her own and such decision and loss of motivation for training might have somehow contributed to this poor showing, but this particular skate in no way gives an accurate picture of her skills and abilities.

From the protocol, I can see she botched 3 consecutive jumps, popping two into singles and one into a double. Such "disaster" to me indicates a momentary mental problem, e.g. a loss of focus or confidence, not a general or permanent issue but something she can snap back from quickly. On a small scale, Joannie had one bad jump, lowering her TES, but that too was more of a fluke.

Falls after full rotations too limits the problems to resolve, technical or mental. For me, chronic UR and wrong edges in jumps, especially on multiple different jumps, are much more worrisome, as they may have a range of possible causes. Training would fix occasional and temporary issues but a fundamental technical problem or a persistent bad habit would take tremendous effort and possibly a long time to overcome.

 

[let`s talk]

but he lacks the ability to convey profound emotions. And 3 falls in a program yet again. He did not deserve to win this competition.

*Arthur Gachinski deserved to win.

:thumbsup:

 

[kwanatic]

I posted this over at the JGP Austria thread too, but it also has some stuff about the ladies from Japan Open.

http://thenakedice.blogspot.com/2011/10/jgp-austria-ladies-review-japan-open.html

It was a really good competition for so early in the season. Liza T is going to be tough to handle, that's for sure! I'm loving Akiko's new program too. I'm happy to see Alissa going for that 3-3. Hopefully, with her setting the example, the rest of the US girls will up their technical content too...Poor Miki. That was hard to watch...:disapp:

 

[Violet Bliss]

Takeshi Honda just had that subtle sad face, suppressed yet convincing . The best part was towards the end, especially when the music stopped and he covered or wiped his face with his hand (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB1AjoD1oMw&feature=related). Every time I watch it, I just feel sad for him. I could feel the struggles he had gone through.

Compared to Honda's, Chan's "subtle sad face" looked somewhat shallow (lack of depth, boyish). I know it is subjective, but I simply don't feel any conviction in his emotion (It looked very much like acting). Being sad probably goes against his natural grains since he seems a playful, "goof-around" type of happy person as shown in his "bromance" with Kurt Browning. Nonetheless, it is still a very good vehicle for him, better than phantom though not as good as Take Five (which suited his personality so well). Without a flair for emoting, Patrick relies heavily on the beauty of his skating skills and choreography. Luckily he has the skills and Lori has the choreography.

I just realized that I hadn't paid attention to their faces. However, I value relying on the beauty of skating skills and cheography much much more than facial expressions in a skating competition. I agree they do add to the performance, especially in a show program.

I compared figure skating performances to acting before, specifically stage vs screen acting. A skater may reach out to the spectators with interactions or draw them in even with the fourth wall. In a live competition, the spectators, including the judges, view a "stage performance" and they assess the overall movements , with a good feel for speed and ice coverage. Screen viewers at home, millions of them, however, get to see more facial expressions with camera close ups and give more consideration to them in evaluation of the performance. This is just one of the contributing factors to different perceptions and to differing opinions from judges and other live audience.

eta. In this specific comparison, Takeshi's was a seasoned program and performance whereas Patrick was debuting a program of extremely high technical difficulty. He naturally needed to focus differently.

This LP really contrasts with the SP in mood and style, giving him the opportunity to show his range.

 

[emma]

I'd forgotten about Honda's Aranjuez - thanks for the reminder!

I can see the points about emotion; but this LP by Chan really amazes me in terms of the just constant and fluid skating/footwork. His blade work, stamina and endurance, and to a high degree his lines, really just grab me and make me feel like the performance goes by so, so quickly. And somehow, i feel so deeply when I watch it. Not in the same way as Honda - or even Kwan or Rochette - I feel/felt with all of these, but his one, I guess, is a sort of less in my gut feeling and more in my head (like more cerebral, but still emotional).

Here is my huge and uninformed wish and request: To Patrick, please don't work on performance or emoting this season; get in harness or some safe device, and master to complete domination your 3 axel. When you can do that in a pinch without flinching as well as you do just about everything else, then work on performance. Please. I don't want to hold my breath every time you do a triple axel (so master it even if only just for me, please!). And, i keep having nightmares (yes, already) that you get bronze at the Sochi Olympics because of the darn axel. So master it now, please. thanks.

 

[Violet Bliss]

^^^ Ha. Did you see the step entry into his 3A? Good luck with your wish and hope he might modify it.

Patrick's 3A is more mental though. Even he has admitted so. He used to land them beautifully whenever it counted. Going to Krall for micro managing jumps resulted in great quads but also the idea that his 3A techniques were all wrong, or "interesting" as Krall puts it. He has been working on the technique but now he has doubts already in his head before each 3A jump. I have a crazy suggestion to make to him that might just work, if I had such a chance.

 

[emma]

oh...I'd love to know your crazy suggestion!!!

I did see the footwork and wondered if this guy just needs to keep his feet busy to stay calm - I wonder if he doing a deep knee bend a la Oda would help? Ok, I have no idea - but the idea that Krall thinks his technique is wonky and he has "mental" issues around just makes me even more anxious (though i'm sure I'll survive).

Anyway, I really can't wait to this and many other programs develop this season - looks to me to be a very exciting season.

 

[FTnoona]

Did Hanyu perform 2 programs or one? Does anyone have a full clip of his programs at COI? I can only find a cut one on youtube. Thanks
I think it may just be me, but I think Tut exists her jumps a bit weird like she tilts forward or something. Other than that she was great.

 

[skatinginbc]

Here is my huge and uninformed wish and request: To Patrick, please don't work on performance or emoting this season

Can you believe it? It is actually my wish. I feel no matter how he emotes, he will always look somewhat fake, because it is just not him. His face is too soft, boyish, yet his posture too stiff. This music requires someone able to hit hard yet with elastic body lines, someone lofty and arrogant and fiery----Daisuke Takahashi, in other words.

But Patrick will do just fine. It is a step up from his phantom, I think. As long as he keeps a poker face, I will still be mesmerized by his beautiful skating and the choreography.

 

[demarinis5]

I just wanted to clear something up. Lori did not choreograph Michelle's 2003 Aranjuez.

Karen Kwan, Peter Oppergrad, Scott Williams and Michelle herself did the choreography.
As a Kwan uber back in the day, I know my facts.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Can you believe it? ........... This music requires someone able to hit hard yet with elastic body lines, someone lofty and arrogant and fiery----Daisuke Takahashi, in other words.

Can you believe it? I feel completely differently about this music, which is perhaps why I felt no one had portrayed it well yet.

Aranjuez may be Spanish, but it's no flamenco or a dance beat. It's about nature, a beautiful garden of life, reflecting the composer's own life's moments of happiness and remorses. When Patrick chose it partly because of the background story, I hoped to see a non stereotype interpretation and he didn't disappoint me. As you've mentioned already, it's Takeshi's sadness in the program that left the deep impression. A lofty, arrogant and fiery characterization would not do justice.

eta. I didn't quite like Patrick's ending pose, but I think it's to show a quiet eventual triumph over the tragedy.

etaa. I rewatched Takeshi's to find the sad face but it was when he had finished and was upset for himself about his performance! It was not part of the program.

The uses of different parts of the music are very different between these two programs, even though Lori choreographed both. Besides her own growth, Patrick's skills must have offered her more inspiration and opporutunities for creativity.

 

[colleen o'neill]

Honda's or Chan's Aranjuez ? ..I like both programs..They can't really be compared because Takeshi's was a 6.0 program IIRC, and Patrick's is CoP. So they may use the same music , but are entirely different .Honda's has long been one of my favourite men's FS .There isn't a year passes that I don't re-watch it. If Patrick develops this over the season the way he did Phantom , I could be adding it to my favourites , too. There's a lot of very nice stuff here.

I love Gachinsky's program and the way he's coming out of his shell, artistically. Some things about it I actually liked better at the test skate..Please don't rein in the Lambielesque fluidity, Artur..I want that and the jumps.. I , too , hope he stays committed to the choreography. He may have been a bit tense because this was the first competition for him ( I think ?)..and it may partly be due to the particular camera angle here ( some of the nicer choreographic details were not seen from the most effective angle) but this performance didn't have quite the same deliciously predatory feel..this costume was OK ; ideally, I had a just slightly dressed up version of what he wore at the test skate in mind ( can you tell how inspired I was to see this for the first time ?)..I guess I liked the silhouette of it better. But this is OK.

Amodio ?..:disapp:

 

[genki]

I love Gachinsky's program and the way he's coming out of his shell, artistically.

Me too I was so drawn to this choreograph, especially the move that starts around 2:35 to 2:40 ish, that I repeatedly watched it.
I guess this will be one of the masterpiece of Dickson. Really excellent work.
.
Like commentator Yuka said, I want Gachinsky to work on the basic skating more so that he can get longer/smoother glides.
If he gets that, this program will surely give me many many many goose bumps

 

[Violet Bliss]

Oy, Miki. Poor kid. She stepped on the ice like a scared abused child forced to do something she was afraid of and not wanting to do. A bad day for whatever reason, physical or emotional, and she did not belong there. If this were a school concert, I'd be the adult to keep her off the stage but here she had to "perform", and be watched globally.

I hope she has felt better since then.

 

[seniorita]

I just saw the Amodio program and I wish someone had warned me.

What worries me is that he seems to like it, thats scary. He has personality and attitude that i ike and I dont want to see him skate to Rachmaninof but that been said it is hard to believe this is not to be a cheesy exhibition, a bad one actually. Maye it is NOT his actual long? I deny to think i ll be watching this program the whole season.

 

[Violet Bliss]

I still can't watch Amodio but I have seen a gif I don't want to ever see again. His performance and costume have been virtually universally panned, even regretably by his fans. But if I had "warned" anybody here, I would have received worse reactions than he!

eta. It seems Gachinski and Amodio are going into opposite directions. Gachinski is ditching his negative and expanding his positive while Amodio goes further into the territory everybody has been concerned and worried about. It's like he is determined to test his limits and see exactly how much he can get away with.

 

[skatinginbc]

Aranjuez...reflecting the composer's own life's moments of happiness and remorses.

A teenager reflecting his own life will not be convincing, so it demands a "mature" look from the performer. A natural swagger (like Daisuke Takahashi) will not be able to hide his assertiveness completely from his movements, so just that little bit of natural subtle swagger (as if from someone that has seen it all), in my opinion, would translate into "maturity" required by the music in a way that does not look like acting at all.