Jason Brown

[Li'Kitsu]

While I think, doris and Tavi, you are right that the choreographer needs to be inspired too to create a really good program, and the music plays a part in it, I have to admit this is simply not the angle I read the interview in. Would it really be so easy if Jason, who he's worked with for several years, would come up with a choice of music he'd really love, but Rohene wouldn't? Is it really just "go to another choreographer" - "Okay"? I mean they've worked together for years, and Rohene is more than just Jason's choreographer. He's part of Jason's team, one of his most important influences for years. Shouldn't a choreographer, in that scenario, also give the skater the benefit of the doubt that he might convince him that the music fits, contrary to initial gut feeling? Open honesty is important, and it should also be in this scenario. But it sounds to me like Rohene is ruling out a lot of possibilities with lots of potential, where the skater might be able to convince him of what he really believes in. While this is - due to time limitations - probably necessary with the skaters he's not working that much with, it's a different ball game with Jason. Probably just sounds like I'm an overly worried mother hen... which I probably am.

And I don't want to discredit the work Rohene does in any way. I love his choreography for Jason, always have, and I think he's an amazing choreographer.


And @TMC sorry that I'm dragging this out in this thread!, I don't think there is anything wrong with 'making your own known', neither yours nor Rohenes the problem with this is probably that the word "artist" in itself is already so difficult - everybody defines it differently, and everybody is right to do so. For me, I think the emotional connection a skater has to his music is the biggest part of being an artist. For others it might be posture and lines. Or it might be the connection to the audience. It's all fine. And then there's the point that being an "artist" isn't necessarily the be all and end all in figure skating - it's one quality that is amazing, but it's not the only one. I sometimes think skaters are "artistic", but I still don't enjoy them that much. Or there are skaters who aren't, but I love them. It gets more difficult when we are in the realm of who should have won, and often the words "not artistic" are pretty much used as a place holder for "I don't like that skater". It's a subjective term. Your words on Yuzu actually still made me happy to read as a Yuzu fan - nobody will reach any figure skating fan, but someone who isn't touched by him still being so kind and appreciative in overall tone is just lovely to read. So, you're statement of Yuzu not being an artist did do me some good, and it shouldn't cause any bad feelings or ruffled feathers, to use your words

 

[StitchMonkey]

You know Jason and Rohene are different people and neither are doctors. They can have different opinions.
Maybe Jason thinks it was not anyone thing and Maybe Rohene just has a different opinion and that it was the quad that did it. It is not a matter to me of who is right, just a different perspective.

 

[Tavi...]

You know Jason and Rohene are different people and neither are doctors. They can have different opinions.
Maybe Jason thinks it was not anyone thing and Maybe Rohene just has a different opinion and that it was the quad that did it. It is not a matter to me of who is right, just a different perspective.

True. I only posted it for information.

L'Kitsu: I wouldn't worry about what might happen if Jason brings Rohene music that Rohene hates. As you said, they have a special relationship that would come into play if the problem arose. And if they couldn't compromise, well, Jason would have to find another choreographer for that piece of music.

I have to say that it strikes me as unlikely to happen at the moment. If I could make a single criticism of Jason it would be that he seems almost too inclined to please and to rely on the vision and guidance of others. Having been there, I can say that kind of passivity often results from feeling like you just don't know enough yet to have a point of view.

 

[musicfan80]

I guess I should start off by asking these questions: Do pretty much all of Kori's students work with Rohene in chereographer? It Rohene part of the "package deal" at 7K? Is is common for coaches to at least "strongly prefer" that their skaters work with the same choreographer? Or are there many coaches who develop positive relationships with several choreographer and they let their skater choose?

It appears that Tom Z has been more flexible in what choreographers his skaters use. And didn't Josh Farris work with Damon Allen in chereography for forever before starting to work with Jeff Buttle? I have wondered how much (if any) that bothered Damon - or maybe he didn't care as long as Josh was happy and the results were great. Maybe Damon wanted to focus on other parts of his skating or perhaps Christy thought a change was needed. It seems (at least publicly) that there hasn't been any conflict over it.

I am just trying to get from more knowledge on this before I form more an opinion on the skater/coach/choreographer dynamic.

That being said......

I know that Rohene has been an integral part of Team Jason for many years and that Jason obviously trusts and adores him, and I have loved much of the work Rohene has done for him. But this does not sit right with me at all. It is still Jason's body and Jason's injury, and Jason made it clear during the teleconference that he did not want to assign blame to a particular element. No matter how close they are, no matter how important a part Rohene is of Team Jason, it does not sit well with me that Rohene has contravened Jason's clear expression of neutrality in the public domain.

It
ITA. I think it should be the athlete themselves who should mainly talk about their career, including any details about their training or injuries. They should be comfortable with whatever their coaches say about that as well. I've will admit that I have wondered about boundary issues with Jason and Kori/Rohene. It may not be as much as an issue with Jason because he is 21 now, but what about a younger skater?

To be honest...and I've held back saying this for some time...I wonder...I wonder if it's going a little...too far. That Rohene now sees Jason no longer as just a muse, but as an extension of himself, thereby winning that...redemption...for his own shortcomings as a competitor. I hope other Jason fans know what I am saying, I still love much of the work Rohene has done for Jason, but, lately...with the hair dye, the costuming, some of the choreography...I hope you all understand what I mean, because I don't know particularly clearly, myself.

The darker hair hasn't bothered me - but Jason has at least naturally brown hair. If he was a natural blonde or red headed, that would be a different story. The costumes on the other hand - I haven't like one in many seasons. I will admit that it's still sort of hard to look at the men's podium pictures from 2015 Nationals and not think "Max, Josh, and Adam all look VERY nice - it's too bad Jason is in boys clothes up there with them."

 

[TMC]

Your words on Yuzu actually still made me happy to read as a Yuzu fan - nobody will reach any figure skating fan, but someone who isn't touched by him still being so kind and appreciative in overall tone is just lovely to read. So, you're statement of Yuzu not being an artist did do me some good, and it shouldn't cause any bad feelings or ruffled feathers, to use your words

Thank you You're right in that everybody defines the word "artist" differently. But I think that what I wrote was a bit confusing - I never meant to say that Yuzu is not an artist - and your reasoning is exactly the reason why I wouldn't say that. I'm sorry if I wrote in a way that gave that impression. I had another look at the article and I realised that while I, like Rohene, haven't felt the "he's amazing" feeling, I still don't agree with him when he says that Yuzu is not an artist, and I should have made that clearer.

I think what I'm trying to say that Yuzu is an artist, because he creates art, but his art is not the kind of art that moves something in me. Like there are tons of very, very successful painters in the history of the world who are artists because they create art. Some of them create art that I don't personally like, but I will still call them artists. This is what rubs me the wrong way about what Rohene said. If a person's artistic expression does not appeal to you, it's not the same to say that that particular person is "not an artist". Better say "their art does not resonate with me" or something like that.

 

[LRK]

Thank you You're right in that everybody defines the word "artist" differently. But I think that what I wrote was a bit confusing - I never meant to say that Yuzu is not an artist - and your reasoning is exactly the reason why I wouldn't say that. I'm sorry if I wrote in a way that gave that impression. I had another look at the article and I realised that while I, like Rohene, haven't felt the "he's amazing" feeling, I still don't agree with him when he says that Yuzu is not an artist, and I should have made that clearer.

I think what I'm trying to say that Yuzu is an artist, because he creates art, but his art is not the kind of art that moves something in me. Like there are tons of very, very successful painters in the history of the world who are artists because they create art. Some of them create art that I don't personally like, but I will still call them artists. This is what rubs me the wrong way about what Rohene said. If a person's artistic expression does not appeal to you, it's not the same to say that that particular person is "not an artist". Better say "their art does not resonate with me" or something like that.

:yes: For me, the prime example would be Johnny Weir. I never thought that he didn't feel his music, or that he "wasn't an artist" - I could see why he would appeal to and resonate with audiences, but it "just didn't do anything" for me personally. (Though I love him as Kai and I really enjoyed his recent Masquerade Waltz as well, so... )

 

[Tavi...]

I guess I should start off by asking these questions: Do pretty much all of Kori's students work with Rohene in chereographer? It Rohene part of the "package deal" at 7K? Is is common for coaches to at least "strongly prefer" that their skaters work with the same choreographer? Or are there many coaches who develop positive relationships with several choreographer and they let their skater choose?

It appears that Tom Z has been more flexible in what choreographers his skaters use. And didn't Josh Farris work with Damon Allen in chereography for forever before starting to work with Jeff Buttle? I have wondered how much (if any) that bothered Damon - or maybe he didn't care as long as Josh was happy and the results were great. Maybe Damon wanted to focus on other parts of his skating or perhaps Christy thought a change was needed. It seems (at least publicly) that there hasn't been any conflict over it.

I am just trying to get from more knowledge on this before I form more an opinion on the skater/coach/choreographer dynamic.

That being said......


It
ITA. I think it should be the athlete themselves who should mainly talk about their career, including any details about their training or injuries. They should be comfortable with whatever their coaches say about that as well. I've will admit that I have wondered about boundary issues with Jason and Kori/Rohene. It may not be as much as an issue with Jason because he is 21 now, but what about a younger skater?



The darker hair hasn't bothered me - but Jason has at least naturally brown hair. If he was a natural blonde or red headed, that would be a different story. The costumes on the other hand - I haven't like one in many seasons. I will admit that it's still sort of hard to look at the men's podium pictures from 2015 Nationals and not think "Max, Josh, and Adam all look VERY nice - it's too bad Jason is in boys clothes up there with them."

I think you may be jumping to conclusions about Kori: I don't think anyone is forced to use Rohene as part of a package deal even though he is part if the 7K team. For example, both this year and last year Mariah Bell had one of her programs choreographed by Cindy Stuart.

As to boundaries, Kori has said that her relationship with Jason is different than it is with other skaters because she's coached him since he was little - and he used to sit in her lap in those days. If you haven't listened to the TSL two part interview with Kori and the on the road pieces about 7K, you might find them interesting. I think the interview is excellent.

 

[karne]

And didn't Josh Farris work with Damon Allen in chereography for forever before starting to work with Jeff Buttle? I have wondered how much (if any) that bothered Damon - or maybe he didn't care as long as Josh was happy and the results were great. Maybe Damon wanted to focus on other parts of his skating or perhaps Christy thought a change was needed. It seems (at least publicly) that there hasn't been any conflict over it.

Josh had used other choreographers while with Z, including Tom Dickson. After he moved to Damon and Christy, he and Damon worked together to create Clair de Lune, Transformers and Rach. Then Joshua did his Bach SP, and also the Schindler's List and Libertango programs, though Damon had input into the step sequences. My guess would be, after all the talk about focus in the interviews, that he decided it might be better to focus on his skating rather than working on the choreography himself. In fact, this season would have been the first season since his coaching switch that the programs would have been done not by himself, and not by Damon.

 

[balletanddancefan]

I know that Rohene has been an integral part of Team Jason for many years and that Jason obviously trusts and adores him, and I have loved much of the work Rohene has done for him. But this does not sit right with me at all. It is still Jason's body and Jason's injury, and Jason made it clear during the teleconference that he did not want to assign blame to a particular element. No matter how close they are, no matter how important a part Rohene is of Team Jason, it does not sit well with me that Rohene has contravened Jason's clear expression of neutrality in the public domain.

agree

 

[Tavi...]

Old news to those of us in the mens SP thread, but Jason has petitioned to be added to the a World Team. Not sure how I feel (I worry) but I know that if they put him on the team @karne will be very happy!

Article:

https://twitter.com/nbcolympictalk/status/690721986503249920

 

[musicfan80]

I think a lot will have to do with what happens in the men's LP on Sunday - and when Jason is able to return to the ice. I am assuming he would need to come back by early February at the latest. And I would bet that USFS is going to want a monitoring session in late February/early March.

It may also depend on what happens at 4CCs. If a man skates GREAT and finishes 2nd or 3rd at Nationals and he then performs well at 4CCs, I have a hard time thinking they would have a great case for going to Worlds over Jason.

I would rather see Jason (and the rest on #TeamInfirmary - Jordan, Ricky, Joshua) just focus on recovering 100% for next season.

 

[cheerknithanson]

I think a lot will have to do with what happens in the men's LP on Sunday - and when Jason is able to return to the ice. I am assuming he would need to come back by early February at the latest. And I would bet that USFS is going to want a monitoring session in late February/early March.

It may also depend on what happens at 4CCs. If a man skates GREAT and finishes 2nd or 3rd at Nationals and he then performs well at 4CCs, I have a hard time thinking they would have a great case for going to Worlds over Jason.

I would rather see Jason (and the rest on #TeamInfirmary - Jordan, Ricky, Joshua) just focus on recovering 100% for next season.

I agree. I'm a huge Jason fan, but I'm iffy with him wanting to petition for Worlds. On one hand, he's great when he's ON and that'll transpire perfectly with Worlds. But on the other hand, wait until the back is healed. Better safe than sorry.

 

[karne]

Old news to those of us in the mens SP thread, but Jason has petitioned to be added to the a World Team. Not sure how I feel (I worry) but I know that if they put him on the team @karne will be very happy!

Article:

https://twitter.com/nbcolympictalk/status/690721986503249920

I don't know. I would have thought I would have been, but I'd rather not see him rush back. Also, if Ross skates as well on Monday morning as he did today, I would like to see him get a spot.

 

[el henry]

I don't know. I would have thought I would have been, but I'd rather not see him rush back. Also, if Ross skates as well on Monday morning as he did today, I would like to see him get a spot.

And karne, if you are in Boston, Ross's hometown, and he is there, and he skates well there....

The crowd reaction would be phenomenal. Like Jason and Riverdance.

 

[StitchMonkey]

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2016/01/22/162644178

more info on petition.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

While I don't know how I feel about the petition itself, I'll admit I'm happy with these news in general - it's good to hear that he'll be back on the ice next week. I really don't think Kori and Jason would rush it, especially after he re-injured himself already once before with that injury, so I'm just happy to hear there's good progress

And while I'm not sure he'll get the worlds spot, it makes his participation in The Team Challenge Cup look more likely again. That would be a lovely, fun way to return to competition and Jason is made for these events!

 

[Tavi...]

I would rather Jason heal, too, but without knowing where he is in his recovery all I can do is shrug my shoulders.

The thing is, unless I'm misinformed, they will name the World Team on Sunday. So I'm really not sure what they would consider in deciding whether or not to name him to the team.

ETA the Ice Network article does give more detail and seems sensible.

 

[TMC]

While I don't know how I feel about the petition itself, I'll admit I'm happy with these news in general - it's good to hear that he'll be back on the ice next week. I really don't think Kori and Jason would rush it, especially after he re-injured himself already once before with that injury, so I'm just happy to hear there's good progress

And while I'm not sure he'll get the worlds spot, it makes his participation in The Team Challenge Cup look more likely again. That would be a lovely, fun way to return to competition and Jason is made for these events!

Yes!

I'm not super excited about Jason going to Worlds; unless he repeats 4th or 5th place, he will be facing gallons of vitriol online... And I worry about him causing permanent problems to his back

Looking forward to TCC!

My two prayers to skate gods would be: let the US guys keep their 3 spots for Helsinki, and let Jason be 100% healthy and win his 2nd Nationals on his way there

 

[StitchMonkey]

ETA the Ice Network article does give more detail and seems sensible.

Honestly that was my reaction. Everything seems level headed to me. I think he had to file it at this point or not at all, so really filing was the right choice. He is not required to go.

Also the Ice Desk was talking about it a bit. John Coughlin had a year where he and Caydee were granted a bye. He talked about how one of the officials involved in grating the bye made a comment the even though he was physically ready was he really? It was bluntly pointed out that his reputation was on the line - literally and that can be more important that just going to worlds.

So it seems people do "get it" in this aspect. John and Caydee ended up WD after getting the bye so it does happen - and it sounds like USFSA was ok with it.

Honestly I think it is a good sign overall. Kori does not often make projection type comments.... she is cagey. To say he is back on the ice next week.... probably means it is a sure thing and after some grace period. Heck, it probably means he is crawling the walls to get back on the ice (I totally think that is one of Kori's healing metrics!). It means he is likely in a good place mentally and and on the right track.

If he does not progress, he does not progress, but honestly I think he will come back pretty well. He is known for his technique, not his hope it works method. I think that will serve him well.

I also don't think he is too good to do something like Gardenia Trophy.

Also Josh did did a local comp in March to prep for worlds so maybe Jason will do that and then decide. This would be awesome because it is close enough to me i could take my cat to meet him!

 

[Meoima]

I'm sorry for my question since I am not familiar with this case, but as far as I know, world team will be decided right after National?
Let's assume Jason will be healthy enough by the time WC happens but WC team might have been decided before he gets back on ice (which is next week). So how can they give him a WC spot when they don't know when will he be healthy enough?