Jason Brown | Page 262 | Golden Skate

Jason Brown

Meoima said:
I'm sorry for my question since I am not familiar with this case, but as far as I know, world team will be decided right after National?
Let's assume Jason will be healthy enough by the time WC happens but WC team might have been decided before he gets back on ice (which is next week). So how can they give him a WC spot when they don't know when will he be healthy enough?
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Right, but Jason has to compete monitoring sessions with USFS, so if he's not healthy enough.

I also think Kori would have him WD if he isn't progressing fast enough. She made a big deal about "the right decision for the country." So she's keeping those 3 spots in mind.
 
Meoima said:
I'm sorry for my question since I am not familiar with this case, but as far as I know, world team will be decided right after National?
Let's assume Jason will be healthy enough by the time WC happens but WC team might have been decided before he gets back on ice (which is next week). So how can they give him a WC spot when they don't know when will he be healthy enough?
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They add an asterisk that says "pending out come of test skate" most likely. Pretty sure that is what has happened in the past. And I am sure the skaters gossip enough that the first alternate will be more in the loop about Jason's condition than USFSA so my guess he will be well informed and able to train/plan accordingly while still being respectful.
 
StitchMonkey said:
They add an asterisk that says "pending out come of test skate" most likely. Pretty sure that is what has happened in the past. And I am sure the skaters gossip enough that the first alternate will be more in the loop about Jason's condition than USFSA so my guess he will be well informed and able to train/plan accordingly while still being respectful.
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I believe the alternates try to train exactly as they would if they were going to Worlds. At least in 2014, when asked, Jason said that he'd be training and competition-ready all the way right up until Max and Jeremy skated on the ice before their short programmes.
 
TMC said:
Yes!

I'm not super excited about Jason going to Worlds; unless he repeats 4th or 5th place, he will be facing gallons of vitriol online... And I worry about him causing permanent problems to his back :(

Looking forward to TCC!

My two prayers to skate gods would be: let the US guys keep their 3 spots for Helsinki, and let Jason be 100% healthy and win his 2nd Nationals on his way there :)
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Im with you on the fears. He will be under tons of pressure, just like Ashley was. I agree the key is for him to get healthy for 2017-2018 & I hope your wishes come true!

He is already facing gallons of vitriol on line - there is a really yucky FSU thread full of posters who set their own parameters for whether he should or should not be selected - and then proceed to conclude that he doesn't meet them and that he would be usurping a place from someone who EARNED it.

Actually, if you look at the stated criteria, there is a decent chance his petition will be granted:

http://www.globetrottingbyphilipher...-team-selection-process-could-be-muddle-again

I don't know if the problem people have is with Jason himself or just their stubborn insistence on what's FAIR. Either way I find it hard to deal with.

Meoima, the team will be selected tomorrow. If Jason is chosen, it will be because they think he will be healthy and ready to compete at a high level by March. USFS will undoubtedly conduct monitoring sessions. If he is clearly not ready, he will withdraw and the alternate will go.
 
I had forgotten that Coughlin/Denney petitioned back in 2013 (and were successful). And they got the petition with, comparably, a much slimer international record (2nd at 4CC; 8th at worlds; no GP medals). So hm....
 
Mrs. P said:
I had forgotten that Coughlin/Denney petitioned back in 2013 (and were successful). And they got the petition with, comparably, a much slimer international record (2nd at 4CC; 8th at worlds; no GP medals). So hm....
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What were their competition, though? What I mean to ask really, how deep was the pairs field then and how does it compare to the men's field now? (Note/Clarification: This is in nowise a rhetorical question - I honestly don't have a clue, and that's why I'm genuinely asking.)

For myself, I don't know quite what to think. This hasn't been a great season for some of my Favourites - and Jason and Liza are in a similar type of boat re Worlds', and it is making me... nervous. Especially considering the type of backlash this might generate. I've seen it before, after all, and I know how ugly things can get, and how fast. So, I'm settling for not having any wishes or hopes, but just sitting back and watching as events unfold as they unfold. Que sera sera. (This attitude is helped by the fact that I tend to be a fatalist anyway.)

With both Jason and Liza, I try to comfort myself with the thought of TCC. At least, I can honestly and without complications wish and hope to see them both there.
 
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With all the talk about Chen and how he should've been given a million points for those quads, I'm really worried now...if they do give Jason a bye, I believe I'm going to take a three week holiday from all forums and Twitter and all skating-related FB activity...:scard7:
 
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This is getting a bit OT but I am a little confused by the "Nathan did 2 quads so he should have scored higher" thing. I'm pretty sure it's in Phil Hersh's article. There is no bonus given for multiple quads, so what are the judges supposed to do - inflate PCS as was done for Boyang Jin? Suppress PCS for Ross because he's quadless? I'm just not sure how people expect Nathan to be placed higher than he is. I'm genuinely confused so if anyone can enlighten me I'd appreciate it.
 
I honestly wonder if Phil Hersh even understand COP. He does not sound like he does.

I am not sure many people really count negative GOE quads as counting as landed... most people seem to fairly call them what they are rotated quads. Nathan attempted two quads, rotated two, but only really was successful with the one. On top of that he had other issues. He had problems on two out of three jumping passes and at least one spin. He had issues all around. I don't the scoring was that bad, though i think Max should have been a bit higher. Ross's program was cleaner than Josh's SP last year and was similar content and received a similar score so that does not seem out of line. Adam's had bobble on one jump pass and lost a level on a spin, but was over all very good... he is between Nathan and Ross, which seems about right.

The argument has always been quads make "the whole program harder" well in Nathans case it made it too much harder having two because he made other bobbles. It shows lack of self awareness in what you can deliver as a well balanced program. Had he done one quad successfully, and the rest of the program cleanly, he likely would have placed higher as he would have done a better program... but who knows... i'm just in my cozy arm chair.
 
Tavi... said:
This is getting a bit OT but I am a little confused by the "Nathan did 2 quads so he should have scored higher" thing. I'm pretty sure it's in Phil Hersh's article. There is no bonus given for multiple quads, so what are the judges supposed to do - inflate PCS as was done for Boyang Jin? Suppress PCS for Ross because he's quadless? I'm just not sure how people expect Nathan to be placed higher than he is. I'm genuinely confused so if anyone can enlighten me I'd appreciate it.
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Same here! Are they advocating shady judging or what?
 
TMC said:
Same here! Are they advocating shady judging or what?
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I have heard the argument that having a quad shows better skating skills... ok maybe, but when you botch other jumps and spins I think it starts to even out.

I suppose it could be argued to be more exciting and there for gives better performance...id have to look at the criteria again for this one.

I have heard some arguments with transitions... but frankly they don't make enough sense for me to try to put here...something about harder jumps = harder transitions = better score... again this one is weird.

I am guessing some people think quad is better so *clearly* it is better choreography.

Really the whole thing is weird to me.
 
TMC said:
Same here! Are they advocating shady judging or what?
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All I can think is that he means give more PCS to guys with quads regardless of performance quality, and hold back on PCS for guys without. That does seem to be what happens internationally. But IMO it kind of defeats the purpose of the second mark if you do that. I think Mariah's PCS is absurdly low - perhaps it's her lack of 3 / 3.

Most people, it seems, think Jason will not be on the team unless someone implodes. I hope it is whatever is best for him.
 
Tavi... said:
All I can think is that he means give more PCS to guys with quads regardless of performance quality, and hold back on PCS for guys without. That does seem to be what happens internationally. But IMO it kind of defeats the purpose of the second mark if you do that. I think Mariah's PCS is absurdly low - perhaps it's her lack of 3 / 3.

Most people, it seems, think Jason will not be on the team unless someone implodes. I hope it is whatever is best for him.
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They should just campaign to increase quad BV by 20 points or so. That way there would be NO chance of skaters without quads ever getting on the podium, or even top ten. Probably not even through regionals. This would remove the problem of having to spin and/or go clean with quads :devil:
 
Mhm, as someone who thinks Nathan should have been ahead of Adam after those specific SP performances (but still thinking he's better of focusing on JW), I kind of feel the need to say something to this...
There are probably a lot of people who really think quad just beats no quad without looking at any other aspect of skating. But I think I've read a lot of posts from people who seem to think similarly to what I do - if you don't have the quad aka the difficulty and BV, you make it up in other areas. In this case, I don't think Adam is far enough above Nathan in all the other aspects to make up the technical difference. Granted, I have never been a fan of Adam, but I don't see him as superior to Nathan in skating skills or transitions, he doesn't have more speed either. And while at this point I think Adam is better in performance and interpreting the music, Nathan is no slouch there. I guess the argument shouldn't be "2 quads = automatic win" but "with the difficulty Nathan delivered technically, the smaller gap Adam has on him in execution and artistry shouldn't have been enough to put him ahead". An overall better no quad SP IMO could have definitely and fairly beaten Nathan.
(PS: I can't comment on the comparison to Ross, because when I looked for videos last time, his was nowhere to be found. And now Canadians has depressed me too much to go for a video hunt :dbana: )

And about the thing with quads raising PCS: I think the general argument is that after a more tiring jump, the same movement (turns, edges, Ina Bauer,...) is harder to do because you have less energy left and your feet are more tired. But while that is true, I don't see how that belongs into the PCS category, as that is what the BV is for.
 
L'Kitsu, I absolutely respect your point of view but I guess I disagree that his performance quality and skating skills were good enough to merit placing him (and I'm still wondering how it would be done) above Adam and/ or Ross. The only time he came alive was during the step sequence - and that's what- 40 seconds? I don't know how to put it, but other than his jumps, which are very good, he just seems juniorish.

And although I know that quads take a lot of energy, I would wager that non-quad programs like Jason's (since this is thread) are as taxing in a different way. I can't say for sure because I'm not an elite level skater.

I also get the feeling people wanted Nathan to get higher PCS because he was the first guy who put 2 quads in his SP at Nats. But frankly, a two quad short program is not that unusual in international competition, so why reward it because he was the first at Nats?

JMO! :)
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caVQXSIf8G4&feature=youtu.be

Brief TSL interview with Kori with a fair amount of stuff about Jason, and a lot of bluntness. I like how she flat out admits there is no way to "package" Jason being there, which is a factor.

Also he is getting a new SP.... which she claims she does not know the music to (I wonder if she does know know the name but has heard it) but seems happy with. She said the other had too much quick twisting in it. Overall things sound good.
 
StitchMonkey said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caVQXSIf8G4&feature=youtu.be

Brief TSL interview with Kori with a fair amount of stuff about Jason, and a lot of bluntness. I like how she flat out admits there is no way to "package" Jason being there, which is a factor.

Also he is getting a new SP.... which she claims she does not know the music to (I wonder if she does know know the name but has heard it) but seems happy with. She said the other had too much quick twisting in it. Overall things sound good.
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This was great news :)
 
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