Jason Brown

[Tavi...]

Like @TMC (hi, stranger!) I doubt Jason will leave Kori permanently to work with Frank Carroll or Brian Orser. I don't think he needs packaging from Frank or choreo from Lori (although I could see him eventually wanting to try out another choreographer at some point), but I do believe Kori's steadying influence is key to his competitive success and consistency, and I think (I hope) he's smart enough to realize it. He is in the process of growing up, and separating from his "second Mom" is surely part of that, but Kori is good at giving people the space they need to grow and develop away from her (see Rohene) so hopefully that is what what we'll see. Regardless, it will be really interesting to see how things unfold for him this year.

 

[Arriba627]

I'm 100% sure Jason is not going to change coaches, ever. He said it himself in an interview, along the lines of 'Kori is my first coach and she will be my last coach'. He'll never leave her.

I can't imagine Jason with another coach either. She has done so much with and for him, and they have such mutual respect for each other. I know several people have mentioned Jason should get choreo from someone other than Rohene, but I don't know. Just don't let Rohene design the costumes. :luv17:

 

[ice coverage]

... https://youtu.be/eAez3EfkjYA?t=368

... I read somewhere (Instagram comment?) that Nathan is already back training quads.

Thx to Stitch for flagging the new TSL video.

Re Nathan, a comment was added below the video:

"Also, i saw Nathan skating a little bit in Colorado... He did land a few quads. ..."​

(The comment is from the 2016 winner of Novice Men at the Broadmoor Open, so I think his report prob. is reliable.)

... I have another theory about why it could be useful though. Maybe it was time to light Jason's competitive fire again and get him training somewhere where he was not king of the hill. Let's be honest, Jason kinda out classes everyone at 7k... an argument (please note I am not making this argument, just acknowledging it from an academic perspective) could be made that he out classes everyone at World Arena even. This could be psychologically about training in an environment with skaters that in some ways outrank him... or at least skating with their legacy. It is often said that training with top skaters really helps, and maybe this is part of what this is about. To take him out of his comfort zone, to remind him of what he still can achieve and fire him up. Skating with Gracie for Frank is a different power dynamic that he is used to, and could be beneficial. ...

:agree: I agree with your general theory about an environment where Jason is not king of the hill and is out of his comfort zone.

But I will note that the most recent time that Jason and Max competed together, Max got the gold and Jason the bronze. (With Max ahead of Jason by 8 points in the SP and by 12 points in the FS.)
So the argument -- academic or otherwise -- that Jason "outclasses" everyone at the World Arena is a little much for me to swallow.
Jason has had a good record against Max, but "outclasses" is going too far, IMO.

 

[StitchMonkey]

But I will note that the most recent time that Jason and Max competed together, Max got the gold and Jason the bronze. (With Max ahead of Jason by 8 points in the SP and by 12 points in the FS.)
So the argument -- academic or otherwise -- that Jason "outclasses" everyone at the World Arena is a little much for me to swallow.
Jason has had a good record against Max, but "outclasses" is going too far, IMO.

Counter argument is who has the Olympic medal?... and hence why it can go on and on academically.

 

[Tavi...]

What I find interesting is that most people are paying very little attention to Jason / FC, to the slating of Nathan-Adam-Jason against each other in their GP assignments, and to the fact that Max isn't competing against any of them. Max does go against Javi, Shoma & Kolyada in Russia, and against Patrick and Boyang in China, so he does have a chance to show he's a strong competitor against the top guys. I guess I wonder, though, whether USFS would have been able to say to the other Feds, hey we want to see Jason against Nathan, etc., do would you take those two for NHK, please?

Other random thoughts:

Jason will be training at sea level during July and then goes to Japan for shows. That means no altitude training for a while. I wonder if that will influence which GPs he seeks. I had initially thought Lombardia might be a possibility, but maybe it's too soon? Maybe TMC will see him at Finlandia!

I don't think asking Josh to coach Jason on jumps right now would be kind to Josh at all, regardless of how helpful it might be to Jason. He's undoubtedly still coming to terms with the fact that his own competitive career is over, and I imagine it would be emotionally very difficult for him. I know it would be for me.

ETA @golden411 thx! I knew I'd just seen it in comments somewhere and good to know its from a likely reliable source.

Stitch: As to other competitors: Jason is internally motivated. I don't think being king of the hill matters one way or the other to him.

 

[ice coverage]

Counter argument is who has the Olympic medal?... and hence why it can go on and on academically.

I know that we both are big fans of both Jason and Max.

To me, "outclasses" is a pretty strong word.
It is one thing to say that Jason "outclasses" Jordan Moeller.
It is quite another thing to argue that Jason "outclasses" Max.

I am a big fan of Ashley -- who has the Olympic team medal too, not to mention the World silver medal.
But I would not go so far as to say that Ashley "outclasses" Polina, who twice has placed higher than Ashley at Nats.

 

[Mrs. P]

Also... hasn't he worked with Frank peripherally before? His wiki has had Lake Arrowhead as a former training location for ages. I think this was where he went/what he did to work on his 2A way way long ago...

and yes karne, the idea of Josh coaching Jason is adorable.

Anthony Liu is also a coach at Lake Arrowhead. Liu was Tatsuki Machida's coach before he returned to Japan after the 2012-2013 season. I think Jason worked with him at one time back in the day.

Basically Jason spent his summers at Lake Aaronhead, if IIRC.

As to what Frank Carroll brings to the table -- I think his training style meshes very well with Jason's work ethic. That style doesn't mesh with everyone: Carolina Kostner trained with Frank during the 2010 Olympic season and it just didn't work out.

Also while Jason has artistic abilities, I think that is not the same thing as polish. Polish is not exclusive to programs, it's also ensuring there isn't roughness in programs, be it choreography or jumps. I think if anything, he might help Jason get over whatever hangups he has with the 3A when he's trying to integrate the quad.

Also, I think it's great he is training with both Denis and Daisuke and I believe those two would benefit from training with Jason as well.

 

[ice coverage]

... summers at Lake Aaronhead ...

Ohhhhh, summers at Lake Aaronhead could be really fun .

Max and Maddie could invite all their friends to come to train and hang out.
Jason, Adam, Richard, Ross, etc.
Alexa/Chris, Haven/Brandon, etc.

 

[StitchMonkey]

I think if anything, he might help Jason get over whatever hangups he has with the 3A when he's trying to integrate the quad.

along this line... I think being told good job from Frank will mean a lot to Jason. He does have a lovely 3A, so i do think it is a hangup as you say. Frank telling him, his 3A is lovely and to just go out and do it, might be much of what he needs.

 

[Tavi...]

Anthony Liu is also a coach at Lake Arrowhead. Liu was Tatsuki Machida's coach before he returned to Japan after the 2012-2013 season. I think Jason worked with him at one time back in the day.

Basically Jason spent his summers at Lake Aaronhead, if IIRC.

As to what Frank Carroll brings to the table -- I think his training style meshes very well with Jason's work ethic. That style doesn't mesh with everyone: Carolina Kostner trained with Frank during the 2010 Olympic season and it just didn't work out.

Also while Jason has artistic abilities, I think that is not the same thing as polish. Polish is not exclusive to programs, it's also ensuring there isn't roughness in programs, be it choreography or jumps. I think if anything, he might help Jason get over whatever hangups he has with the 3A when he's trying to integrate the quad.

Also, I think it's great he is training with both Denis and Daisuke and I believe those two would benefit from training with Jason as well.

One of the comments I saw on Instagram regarding his training at TSC referred to his "long traveling jumps that seem to hang in the air forever." (Quote is from @Angelinaey's comments on this post - https://instagram.com/p/BHBszFsBjmW/ ).

That sounds pretty good to me!

Also, Jenny Kirk and others have repeatedly commented on D10's perfect posture and Frank's particular technique for jumps (linear path + arms to the right if I recall?), all of which may be of benefit to Jason. I will add that I subscribe to a site called iCoach Skating which has training videos by a lot of well known coaches, including Kori, Tom Z and Frank Carroll. A lot of them are really good but I particularly liked Frank's style and clear explanations. There was no ego or arrogance. I can see him working well with Jason.

 

[karne]

I have another theory about why it could be useful though. Maybe it was time to light Jason's competitive fire again and get him training somewhere where he was not king of the hill. Let's be honest, Jason kinda out classes everyone at 7k... an argument (please note I am not making this argument, just acknowledging it from an academic perspective) could be made that he out classes everyone at World Arena even.

Mi scusi?!?!!?!?

Let's have a think about who the two top dogs were at the World Arena until recently. Max, and Joshua. Now, we all know we will never see Joshua and Jason head to head again cry but as much as I love Jason, he "outclasses" neither of them. I don't give a flying camel what rubbish you want to bring in about the Olympic medal while you rub salt into the clearly still very raw wound. In terms of their skating, Jason is on equal terms with both of them. He doesn't "outclass" either and I would wager heavily that he would be shocked to hear anyone use a word that strong in relation to his standing against Max and Joshua. Max is also a National Champion and I would also wager Jason knows very well that he was one double toe away from being a silver medallist in 2015 to Joshua's title. And Max has won a GP, something neither Jason or Joshua have managed.


If Jason has gone to Frank to tidy up his jumps a little, that's fine. At least we know he's too nice a guy to pick up Frank's more concerning attitudes - as long as he keeps out of Denis' way, I suppose. And at least Jason isn't a girl for Frank to order to drop a heap of weight that he doesn't need to lose...

 

[musicfan80]

If Jason has gone to Frank to tidy up his jumps a little, that's fine. At least we know he's too nice a guy to pick up Frank's more concerning attitudes - as long as he keeps out of Denis' way, I suppose. And at least Jason isn't a girl for Frank to order to drop a heap of weight that he doesn't need to lose...

Are you talking about someone in particular? Jenny Kirk has admitted to having an eating disorder in her career, but I never got the impression that it was from Frank. And if their was a Frank Carroll skater that I was ever worried about, it was Evan Lysacek. Between how rail his legs looked sometimes and the rumored over training, I was somewhat surprised he showed up in Vancouver in one piece. It didn't surprised me at all that he got too injured to really try a comeback for 2014.

 

[StitchMonkey]

since it is lingering... i feel the need to clarify.

when i refer to outclassing from an academic perspective... what i mean is that if given the assignment/task/job to argue that view point, you would be able to do it. I think from an mental what if game for people that like to debated, you could put the names Jason, Max, Josh, and Mirai (much better showing at the Olympics than Jason after all...) in a hate and most of us could draw names and if told to make an argument that they out class the others. There is not right answer... but arguments could be made for more than one of the skaters in the area. I think most of us in this thread, if we were being paid to, could competently argue anyone of them were the best.

Also outclasses... was perhaps a poor word choice. But Jason is so sweet saying "someone he is in aww of" would not really narrow it down. Even someone he looks up too... well again it is Jason. Someone who he aspires to be/be more like/be an equal to might be better, but more long winded... so i apologize if my verbal laziness has hurt any feelings.

In the end... the point I was trying to make is that I am not sure there really is a clear alpha so to speak in that area... they all have their one strengths and are their own skaters. I suspect the ghost of Kwan and Evan are very present with Frank and leave many if not most looking up. And yes I think Franks rink may elicit different feelings for Jason... and many other skaters than World Arena. Then again WA's has its own charms and factors...

 

[karne]

Are you talking about someone in particular? Jenny Kirk has admitted to having an eating disorder in her career, but I never got the impression that it was from Frank. And if their was a Frank Carroll skater that I was ever worried about, it was Evan Lysacek. Between how rail his legs looked sometimes and the rumored over training, I was somewhat surprised he showed up in Vancouver in one piece. It didn't surprised me at all that he got too injured to really try a comeback for 2014.

JMO, but I was thinking of Gracie. When she first moved to FC she looked in pretty good shape. I was shocked when a little later in the season, she looked, to me, a little too thin. I remember some comment on various forums about it.

 

[Tavi...]

For those of you who don't frequent FSU, there's an interesting discussion in the TSL thread about whether Frank is a good "jump" coach, starting here at post 685:

http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/index.php?threads/2016-tsl-thread.98039/page-23

Both @arakawafan2006 and @kecasyl seem to think highly of Frank, and based on other stuff they've posted, I think both of them are / were skaters. Of course a couple of months isn't a lot of time, but it sounds like Frank may be able to help Jason with his < and gain power in his skating - wouldn't that be awesome? Sure makes me excited to see his progress, and I'm hoping we'll see him at Glacier Falls, which is only about 2 weeks from now! Sadly, I don't think there's a live stream for GF, but if I recall we usually get some fan videos and reports. Hopefully it won't be a repeat of the disaster that was last year. And after that, of course, he goes to Japan for The Ice, and then, gosh, it's almost time for champs camp!

I keep wishing the US men's thread would start up in earnest again, but I guess we haven't seen enough of anyone to seriously discuss them yet.....

 

[StitchMonkey]

We did get a live stream last year actually of GF.. or was it an archived stream... anyway we had one.

The men's thread should start up once we have more music choices and such. Max's choice got some buzz.

One thing it did notice is that Gracie and Carly appear to be in Japan, so Jason may be getting a lot of one on one attention.

 

[Tavi...]

We did get a live stream last year actually of GF.. or was it an archived stream... anyway we had one.

The men's thread should start up once we have more music choices and such. Max's choice got some buzz.

One thing it did notice is that Gracie and Carly appear to be in Japan, so Jason may be getting a lot of one on one attention.

Totally OT but Carly is a great photographer - some of her pix are quite beautiful.

Re GF: I can't remember anything about streaming but maybe it's cause I blocked it out - remember that Jason had to tweet that he wasn't injured and he was just learning two really hard programs?!

And yeah, I'm sure US men's thread once we start getting glimpses of new programs, summer competition news, etc.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Totally OT but Carly is a great photographer - some of her pix are quite beautiful.

Re GF: I can't remember anything about streaming but maybe it's cause I blocked it out - remember that Jason had to tweet that he wasn't injured and he was just learning two really hard programs?!

And yeah, I'm sure US men's thread once we start getting glimpses of new programs, summer competition news, etc.

Carly has a specific photography instagram account if you have not seen it.

https://www.instagram.com/carlygoldphotography/ and I agree she really does have an eye for beauty.

The glacial falls collection is still up from last year if you want to poke around (currently rewatching Brendans FS as it was first for the men)

http://web.icenetwork.com/schedule/2015/07/2015_gf_classic

GF was interesting for Jason last year... you could kinda tell he was not comfortable with that SP yet...or at all. The really sad thing about the tweet is... well we kinda know it was not entirely true now as he was injured... or at least i got the distinct impression he was having issues before SA. I want all our boys to get through the season healthy this year.

We may also have a delay in getting info on the mens thread because, well Adam and Max don't do as many summer comps, and Nathan in in heal mode, so our top guys right now kinda start they season later. Plus Broadmoore had less oomph this year... for lack of a better way to say it. Last year we had Nathan really wanting to make his mark, and Tim Dolesky for that matter had a great showing. This year... no so many seemed to want to start their season there. Hopefully we will get this thing revved up and rolling soon.

To take it back to Jason. Does anyone else kinda wish Jason would work on getting that one foot entry to his 3A on his 2A instead? I mean if he can do it on the 3A why not the 2A? It would still look great and be a crowd pleaser done on the 2A, and might be more within his range. Then when he does that a few times he can move up to the 3A on it. This could be a way to keep the awesome entrance and a traditional 2A in the program.

 

[TMC]

To take it back to Jason. Does anyone else kinda wish Jason would work on getting that one foot entry to his 3A on his 2A instead? I mean if he can do it on the 3A why not the 2A? It would still look great and be a crowd pleaser done on the 2A, and might be more within his range. Then when he does that a few times he can move up to the 3A on it. This could be a way to keep the awesome entrance and a traditional 2A in the program.

This is a very good idea!

 

[Tavi...]

To take it back to Jason. Does anyone else kinda wish Jason would work on getting that one foot entry to his 3A on his 2A instead? I mean if he can do it on the 3A why not the 2A? It would still look great and be a crowd pleaser done on the 2A, and might be more within his range. Then when he does that a few times he can move up to the 3A on it. This could be a way to keep the awesome entrance and a traditional 2A in the program.

I actually love where the two 2As were placed at TCC. I loved the spiral entry into the first one and the grouping of the second one with the 3F-3T, and I don't know if you could work that 2A entry into the 3F-3T group. That said, if his work with Frank goes really well, they may replace the first 2A with a 4T and put the spiral entrance into a solo 3A. We might also see the 3A-1L-3F, which would likely mean no more 3F-3T. Makes my head ache to think about it! I'm sure it will be lovely whatever they do. As long as they keep the sexy Brazilian bartender costume - or something approximating it - I'm good. No more girly lace or ruffles or weird asymmetric necklines with awkward straps, please!

PS thx for links! I already follow Carly's photography Instagram. I would love to check out the GF stuff but it will have to wait til I get home. Stupid Ice Network and their anti iPhone stance.