Since we are already having this discussion and Adam has been brought up, what if TCC wasn't the right choice? I have seen a few people mention that the quad issue WILL be fixed and I am not sure I have more confidence in his current situation. Kori is getting a lot of blame here, but Brian didn't work for Adam and he hasn't worked for quite a few male skaters. Don't get me wrong, I think Brian is a good coach, but no coach works for everyone. Reading these articles, it seems like part of Jason's issue is mental. If choreo is difficult for him, I am sure jump technique is even harder. The issue is, you can't just drill quads for hours, especially when you are prone to injury. I want to see Jason do well and I value what he brings to the table, but part of me wonders if he does need a coaching situation that is more focused on him.
Jason Brown
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I don't know about IG -- I was mainly talking about Twitter. The cognitive dissonance was real! There is some real: comments. There was even one that was kinda NSFW, lol.
Ugh, I did not like the dark hair phase. It was so wrong with his skin coloring. One of Rohene's classic styling moves LOL.
I do feel the silver lining of the last quad is that he did really work on his skating skills -- both speed and edges. As exhausting last Tracy's Wilson SS class was, it would have been interesting what it would have been like when he was less far along in that area.
Yeah, I didn't think you had video, otherwise you would have posted it already! But I just wanted to point out that you mentioned it.
Yeah that hair really was ugly. It’s quite jarring watching that clip!
As to his SS...yes it really has been the silver lining. Call me crazy, but when I see such a difference in his power, it does give me hope that once Brian’s technique is more ingrained, he will be able to jump really well. Time will tell, I guess. But I really am hoping he’s a little more comfortable with the new technique in France. A medal would be a long shot, but I guess it doesn’t really matter. If he could fully rotate all his triple jumps in both programs and really go for the quad instead of popping (even if he fell), that would be huge.
Well one big difference is that Adam and Jason were at different points of their careers. Adam came to Brian at the start of his career. IIRC, the reason Adam left was two-fold -- he had become really friends with Yuna Kim and had felt a bit divided after the whole Brian/Yuna spilt and the other other was over disagreement over his off-ice training regimen (or rather lack of it). Ironically, when he went to Raf and he was older, he DID realize the value of a strong off-ice regimen. He talked about in interviews how he was running a lot, doing more strength training etc.
And he WAS the top dog with Kori. Kori certainly had other students, but Jason was the No. 1 priority, no doubt. Honestly, I think he likes training with other top skaters at TCC -- and obviously the other skaters really like him too. I think Jason enjoys being around other top skaters. And having Zhenya has especially being beneficial.
I also want to kinda emphasize that my comments regarding Kori is stating why I think the coaching relationship may have had issues and how that may factored into Jason's problems last season. I'm not saying she is to blame for all of Jason's issues.
It's too early to say whether TCC will work or not, but so far I see a lot of positive developments (albeit small) for me to remain optimistic for now.
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I definitely have seen those clips of his 4toe......they are beautiful! Not dead clean but quarter turn or under. it's because of those clips it gives me hope that he can get them back again. Another issue that could rear itself with Jason is handling his nerves as he matures. It's one thing to be able to land the quads in practice, it's a whole other ball game to nail them under pressure.
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- Mar 3, 2014
Can you tell me what other male skaters you are referring to? The only two I can think of are Adam, who left after two years (and who then needed to train seven years with Raf before he made an Oly team) and Nam, who worked with Brian for three (?) years, one as a junior. I am not one of those folks who thinks that every coach is right for every skater, and not every coach is right for every skater at every stage, but as far as results, I see none better than Brian. And I trust Tracy to keep an eye on Jason.
Jumping off onto other topics, looking back on it, Inner Love was too much, too soon. From everything I've read about how Rohene works, and how Jason works, Rohene's creative choreo at the last minute was not helping. And I agree changing the layout every comp was not helping either. Adam would drive me crazy with that planned fall/UR on the 4Lz in his programs, but it ended up working for him. So as much as I hate to say it, the planned fall may not have been such a bad idea for Jason.
I can't believe I'm saying that:roll9:
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- Feb 13, 2018
I guess the flip side of this is what if TCC is the right choice? We probably won't know for a while, but as others have said before, it seemed like Jason wanted/needed/was ready for a change, and I choose to be optimistic about his decision
I really notice how much more assertive he's been with himself, even in off-ice stuff. For me, it's most apparent in how he's embracing a more mature look after getting the haircut. He knows he looks good and he's definitely showing off more, not to mention he's liking all the tweets from all the 20-somethings (maybe older, ha) that are like "OMG, you look so good/hot/whatever." He likes the attention.
This reminded me of this tweet
https://twitter.com/ReenieOnIce/status/1057073284691374081This reminded me of this tweet
That tweet made me
too.I retweeted that photo and made some comment on how my husband thought it looked like a photo shoot for someone graduating from Harvard Law. Man, I did not expect such a response, lol. (Jason like it too; He does have a lot of Harvard shirts, you're welcome for the aspirational tweet, lol).
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- Oct 8, 2015
That tweet made me
I retweeted that photo and made some comment on how my husband thought it looked like a photo shoot for someone graduating from Harvard Law. Man, I did not expect such a response, lol. (Jason like it too; He does have a lot of Harvard shirts, you're welcome for the aspirational tweet, lol).
But did you see the picture of him with the fan at Skate Canada and he was wearing that sweater with white pants? Probably the gala white pants, but nonetheless, noooooooooo
edited: explained below. Sorry, Jason. I guess the flip side of this is what if TCC is the right choice? We probably won't know for a while, but as others have said before, it seemed like Jason wanted/needed/was ready for a change, and I choose to be optimistic about his decision
I believe the geographic change was very important to him. Rohene mentioned this as well. He wanted a big city. I think he's ready to spread his wings.
I think Jason needed to get out of Monument/Colorado Springs in a big way. He was crushed and probably embarrassed, and maybe had a hard time holding his head up around people with whom he trained and saw regularly. He was EXPECTED to make the team by a lot of people. All this in addition to needing to get away from Olympic City. He needed to get away to keep his sanity. Even more, he had no plans beyond 2018 and now had to think about his future. If it were me, I don't think I could have stayed.
Thanks for the interesting stuff to read while staying up way past my bedtime for NHK.
But did you see the picture of him with the fan at Skate Canada and he was wearing that sweater with white pants? Probably the gala white pants, but nonetheless, noooooooooo
I heard (I forgot where) the theme of the Skate Canada party was like Diner en Blanc, so everyone had to wear all-white.
I believe the geographic change was very important to him. Rohene mentioned this as well. He wanted a big city. I think he's ready to spread his wings.
I think Jason needed to get out of Monument/Colorado Springs in a big way. He was crushed and probably embarrassed, and maybe had a hard time holding his head up around people with whom he trained and saw regularly. He was EXPECTED to make the team by a lot of people. All this in addition to needing to get away from Olympic City. He needed to get away to keep his sanity. Even more, he had no plans beyond 2018 and now had to think about his future. If it were me, I don't think I could have stayed.
Thanks for the interesting stuff to read while staying up way past my bedtime for NHK.
I agree with all of the above and getting away from the Olympic mania my original thought. But in hindsight the lack of interactions with Kori was kinda interesting and probably what got everyone chatting about coaching changes.
Ugh what a terrible time. It's so good that's behind him now.
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- Oct 8, 2015
Ah, didn't know that. Thanks. Makes a lot of sense then. I'll withdraw my fashion critique.
Ah, didn't know that. Thanks. Makes a lot of sense then. I'll withdraw my fashion critique.
Well to be fair there is probably a different all-white outfit out there that would have flattered him better (though I like the sweater). Like a white shirt and white chinos or something like that.
But side note: Who does a freakin' en Blanc theme in OCTOBER?
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I know this isn't the Adam forum but because there was some discussion about his 4Lutz, and the planned fall he always had on it......WHY did that guy go with the lutz when he actually landed a 4toe (can't remember which competition)!!! If he could actually LAND the toe, why waste the time on the lutz knowing it was going to be a dud 9 times out of 10? That decision always perplexed me.
IIRC, his injury from the previous season affected his ability to do toe jumps. He wasn't able to do many 3T for a while there, so they decided to focus on the 4Z instead since he was landing it somewhat.
To be fair to Adam he did land it (albeit it was UR) at NHK Trophy last season and got on the podium there.
Speaking of NHK Trophy, Sergei Voronov is in second after the SP and has the potential to make the GPF. He's 31! I don't want to hear how Jason's too old, when he's seven years younger, to still make his mark on the sport. As long as Jason is healthy and he is motivated, then he should keep going.
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- Feb 13, 2018
And speaking of being "old," Michal Brezina is 28 and won 2 GP medals this season (his last GP medal was in 2014!) and made it to the GPF for the first time since 2011! I don't think anyone can ever be "too old" to improve
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- Jan 1, 2013
The first thing that jumped to mind when I read this was simply: I've always thought Max was the biggest victim of the USFS' mixed messages regarding quads/artistry, but Jason may have been a "silent" victim of it too. Why push for the quad when the USFS are sending messages that it doesn't matter and artistry is the only thing that matters? Jason won his National title without even an attempt, remember. And was fourth at Worlds without it. And then suddenly the USFS decides it wants all the quads again and wham, suddenly he's behind.
With that said, I always felt like he actually was more on par with Adam than behind him in that regard but that for some inexplicable reason Adam got a free pass on a lot of stuff that other skaters didn't or couldn't (like doing a planned failed quad, trying the quad without "having" it , putting in long pauses standing around in his programs, having no choreo except a bit of shoulder-shimmying, etc).
USFS has always been notoriously behind following international scoring trends. It's funny how US Champs went from 2016 to 2017. It did seem that in 2016, there was more of a premium on artistry, which is why Adam won and in 2017, it was all about Nathan and all his quads.
Basically between Skate America 2013 (Adam was 2nd, Jason was 5th) until NHK Trophy 2017 -- Jason had beat Adam on all their face-to-face meet-ups. But then Jason started having consistency issues and Adam managed to stay consistent on everything outside the 4Z. That said, I don't think international judges every bought into Jason and Adam being PCS equals -- Adam never broke 90 in PCS, something Jason did a few times last season, even when he was having issues with his TES.
Also with Jason, I think all the injuries in the previous quad really hurt any progress he was making on the jump. I mean he was like RIGHTTHERE at 2016 Skate America and then he got the stress fracture. He essentially had to reset on his jumps each time.
Honestly it was a perfect storm of problems.
LOL, we clearly need more Jason content when we're talking about Adam Rippon in this thread, LOL. Two more weeks, all.
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- Jan 1, 2013
I have to say, I am practically vibrating with excitement at the idea of seeing Jason skate live, even if it will be that Simon and Garfunkel free and not something glorious like The Piano. I am quite delighted it will be this SP that I will (hopefully!) see.
Not wanting to put a jinx on Jason or anything, because the last time I was sure I'd get to see him I...didn't. *remembers the long list of planned stuffy purchases for her favourites and having to cross them off the list...one by one by one...until there was only three left...*
Not wanting to put a jinx on Jason or anything, because the last time I was sure I'd get to see him I...didn't. *remembers the long list of planned stuffy purchases for her favourites and having to cross them off the list...one by one by one...until there was only three left...*
Yeah no jinxing here. But regarding the free skate, I have a feeling it's actually going to be something really nice later in the season. I came away SCI with good warm feelings about it. Remember that people were unsure about The Piano free skate too way back in the day. That the music was boring, the piano to tinkley, that he had too many spirals.
Mr. P and I are talking about doing a SoCal family vacation and 4CC is right before the deadline he needs to use up his vacation for the year. I don't have the cash (nor the time) to see everything, but the men are exciting enough and I think Mr. P and Toddler P can do a daddy/daughter play date while I play in the area.
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- May 28, 2018
Lots of good discussions here and very good points. I am finally back in New York, after some air travel drama and finally got a chance to check in and see what everyone is saying. All points made are good, valid points. I am basing my hopes for Jason on that last K&C where he sat between Brian and I think it was Lee, if I remember correctly, and said "Baby Steps!" And Brian told him with gestures that he had skated from his heart and not his head. Once he popped that quad, he got out of his head and went for it. It wasn't perfect, but it was Jason and that's what counts. He's been through a lot, and things won't happen overnight, but everything that I see is showing progress. And it's clear that he is happy. His friendship with Zhenya is a bonus that I never imagined. After his EX he bounced into the waiting area (after being fist bumped by Gilles and Poirier!) to hug Zhenya and probably everyone else who was back there. And they hugged during the finale and they had matching white shirts. And he's clearly become close to Cha and Joseph Phan. They are all great skaters deep in the learning process to get better, but all with talent, drive and a love of what they are doing. He's HAPPY! And he feels challenged and he feels optimistic. Medals will be great, and the 2022 Olympics is a realistic goal for him and Zhenya. And I hope they make it. But what is important is that they are happy, working hard and enjoying life in Toronto and being friends. I loved watching him skate at SCI. The short was dismaying, yes, but the free was good and he went off the ice feeling like he accomplished something good. I'm looking forward to France with high hopes for all of them. I hope that you do get to 4CCs Mrs P! That was our original plan, but we gave up on it when it was shifted from Colorado and then decided to go to SCI. So that's it for live comps for me for quite a while. I really enjoyed SCI!
