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Watched of the first time during Shanghai Trophy and find it surprisingly amusing.
JGP: Are triples and quads worth it?
- Thread starter Anna K.
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- Jan 31, 2019
Good for you, so much more content. So long as they don't sandwich it into other disciplines like they did in Calgary, I don't mind it being out there for people who need a cure for insomnia.
Definitely NOT 'let's compensate loss of jumping passes with synchro' lolz.
Definitely NOT 'let's compensate loss of jumping passes with synchro' lolz.
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- Jun 21, 2003
Here's the thing about Synchro. Sports are a bottom up endeavor. The reason that lots of people go to basketball games to watch the top talents perform is that lots and lots and lots of people played playground and school basketball as kids. Why are U.S. audiences in love with professional and college American Football and utterly bored out of their skulls with "Association Football" (abbreviated "soccer")? It's because that's what they played when they were growing up.
Back in the good old days (say, the first couple of decades of the twentieth century) a huge number of children and young adults from countries with cold climates skated -- either on frozen neighborhood ponds or at fancy new-fangled indoor or outdoor rinks. Not so much anytmore (although kids numbering in the tens of millions still play basketball).
Will skating as a spectator sport be able to hold its audience in the twenty-first century, or will it become progressively "nichier and nichier"?
Back in the good old days (say, the first couple of decades of the twentieth century) a huge number of children and young adults from countries with cold climates skated -- either on frozen neighborhood ponds or at fancy new-fangled indoor or outdoor rinks. Not so much anytmore (although kids numbering in the tens of millions still play basketball).
Will skating as a spectator sport be able to hold its audience in the twenty-first century, or will it become progressively "nichier and nichier"?
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- Jan 31, 2019
Seriously, I am a Canadian of Russian background and I hate hockey. Everyone plays it and goes insane over it, but if NHL disappeared tomorrow, I wouldn’t know.
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- Jun 21, 2003
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. The only thing we need to be careful about is not to mock or put down fans who like what we don't like or who don't like what we do.
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- Apr 23, 2018
What you mean is it is seriously anti-just-YOU-as-spectator sport. Just as the jumping competitions you want to promote are a seriously anti-just-ME-as spectator sport, because they are way more numbingly soporific than synchro to me.
Says who? After all, the USFS, even with quadmeisters Chen and now Malinin, have had to give away tickets for a number of years so it isn't as if the evidence shows that 'regular' people - whoever that may be in just one country let alone different ones - are all that entertained, excited or attracted by the jumps as such (I have my own theories about the Russian girls, but they are only my own and not kind, and as @Mathman says...)
Always good to try and remember, yes.Different stroke for different folks, I guess. The only thing we need to be careful about is not to mock or put down fans who like what we don't like or who don't like what we do.
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- May 15, 2024
I don't see decreasing the number of jumping passes or banning quads in juniors as a loss that needs to be compensated. As a person who skates mostly in crowded rinks I admire all these things that synchro teams can do so smoothly, without causing casualities in the process. As a person who recently tries to get my waltz jump back and 2T will probably be the hardest jump I'll ever try (if I'll ever try it), I should be probably impressed by quads, but I also have a little knowledge how human body works, so I disagree with people making minors who lack such knowledge to perform elements that will most probably cause injuries. If an adult person wants to try 4T, let them enjoy themselves, they know consequences, they decide.
I understand that it's easier to asses the skaters by their ability to jump - everyone can see who jumps doubles and who jumps quads. I mean I was there, when I was about 10 and started watching FS, not skating myself. For a short time I watched FS to see Elvis Stojko jumping 4T combo. It changed when I started skating myself. To see the quality of skating is totally different thing if you haven't skate and don't understand what you need to do with your body to move on ice. So if you enjoy jumping competitions, good for you, there are plenty to watch but FS isn't all about jumping.
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- Jan 31, 2019
Yes, that's why it is important, for example, not to call the golden age of woman's figure skating with awesome personalities a time when it was all about abused, anorexic girls not worth watching as was done in this thread.Different stroke for different folks, I guess. The only thing we need to be careful about is not to mock or put down fans who like what we don't like or who don't like what we do.
Or detract from the ambition, drive, spirit and daring of the teenage girls, saying that their efforts should be dismissed as useless and not worth it. Life and decisions doesn't start the day a person turns 18.
And it's always about women who get put down or curbed. Nobody seem to care that by all evidence teenage boys have more injuries from higher level jumping elements when women are more likely to damage their body doing bielman.
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- Jan 31, 2019
Less and less. They are taking combos out in all 3 disciplines. Less jumps, particularly something as spectacular as a combo.
I can't do a lot of things that other human being can. I can't carry a tune if my life depended on it, but I'm not clamoring for forbidding people to practice singing in an opera or practicing a musical intrument. I can't run very far, but I don’t want marathons to be outlawed. I don't even know where to start dancing but that's not a valid reason for me to stop other people from doing so. I also don't have any love for physics, but I am happy that universities have plenty of physics pondering the thermal death of the universe. I admire the diversity of human beings and their talents and the dodged pursuit of those dreams.
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As I wrote, if an adult wants to jump 4T or 4A or even try 5T, it's up to them, as they know or can know the risks. Just keep children out of it. It isn't singing or studying, practising some elements can damage your body permanently.
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What you call golden age for me was very dark period. I recall only very few men doing biellmann in competitions because of how human body is built. But you got my interest, I can hold half-biellmann position off ice for 10-15 seconds, I probably could do a normal biellmann if I had a few months to practise, do you say that it more damaging than exposing your body to extereme forces, even over 10 g, while landing a tripple? Was it researched? Is there a paper about it? Or are you forgetting that boys don't do biellmann and most girls don't do quads and this is the reason why boys have more injuries because of quads and girls because of biellmann?
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Do we forbid bielman, because let's face it, it is a damaging, very dangerous position that no normal human can replicate? Do we forbid skating for multiple hours in a squatting position to develop skating skill because it destroys joints? do we fobid lifts in dance due to catastrophic falls? Do we forbid pair skating outright because a 28 man can drop on ice during a routine practice and die instantly from loads on the heart it imposes? Do we forbid developing of hyperflxibility through punishing stretching far beyond limits of human limberness past toddler years?
The simple statistics from the camp of a certain abusive coach we all know about is that women she trained with the same punishing methods were able to compete in juniors and seniors between the ages of 13 and 17, and some of them--beyond, but none of at least 5(!) Junior men she trained successfully entered seniors and had very few junior competitions, basically all of them sustaining injuries that prevented them competing for over two years by age 14-15.
I think that training 3A and quad might actually be less destructive for teen women than men, because they have better control over their body earlier as evidenced time an again in junior competition, and properly executed jump is not muscled, it is controlled. Women do not grow at the high speed the way men do overall.
I feel it is far safer that a 13 yo woman training judiciously a 3A or 4T than a 14 yo boy aiming for 5 quads in his free skate. Yet, nobody screams abuse when you hear about such an intention, but everyone is riding women's case hard when they God forbid try triple-triple.
It's abuse that should be addressed towards men or women in all disciplines, not the technical content. Due to diversity of human beings, some can do bielmans safely, other can't and the same goes with jumps.
But, overall, I don't think that anything in figure skating between the starting and final pose is safe or healthy to train.
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- Jun 21, 2003
About the "Golden Age of Figure Skating Popularity," I think that this can mean different things to different people.
The golden age of participatory skating and high society: the first decade of the twentieth century.
The Golden Age of Showgirls on Ice: the 1920s–30s when touring shows like Shipstad and Johnson were all the rage and Sonia Henie short-skirted her way to becoming the biggest box office draw in Hollywood.
The Golden Age of the American Man: the 1950s when U.S. men swept into the vacuum left by World War II and won 4 consecutive Olympic titles.
The Golden Age of, “See, this isn't a namby-pamby powder puff sport after all”: the mid-1990s when Tonya Harding, Nancy Kerrigan and Oksana Baiul produced the (then) all-time biggest audience in the history of televised sporting events for the ladies’ long program at the 1994 Olympics.
The Golden Age of ladies going higher, faster, stronger: the Russian Revolution of the late 2010s and early 2020s (replacing Russian men going higher, faster, stronger at the beginning of the twenty-first century)
(I won’t mention my personal favorite: Figure Skating goes truly international as marquee headliners Mao Asada and Yuna Kim go head to head to wrest figure skating from the clutches of European/North American exclusivity.
)
The golden age of participatory skating and high society: the first decade of the twentieth century.
The Golden Age of Showgirls on Ice: the 1920s–30s when touring shows like Shipstad and Johnson were all the rage and Sonia Henie short-skirted her way to becoming the biggest box office draw in Hollywood.
The Golden Age of the American Man: the 1950s when U.S. men swept into the vacuum left by World War II and won 4 consecutive Olympic titles.
The Golden Age of, “See, this isn't a namby-pamby powder puff sport after all”: the mid-1990s when Tonya Harding, Nancy Kerrigan and Oksana Baiul produced the (then) all-time biggest audience in the history of televised sporting events for the ladies’ long program at the 1994 Olympics.
The Golden Age of ladies going higher, faster, stronger: the Russian Revolution of the late 2010s and early 2020s (replacing Russian men going higher, faster, stronger at the beginning of the twenty-first century)
(I won’t mention my personal favorite: Figure Skating goes truly international as marquee headliners Mao Asada and Yuna Kim go head to head to wrest figure skating from the clutches of European/North American exclusivity.
)
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I think fans today don't realise just how huge a star Henie was and how much influence she had on popular culture - I just watched a youtube video about films in 1939 (Hollywood's 'Golden year') and ice skating movies were a thing, in some ways the Marvel movies of the day with massive production numbers and budgets and stars to match. Sadly (but hysterically) the video was about The Ice Follies of 1939, a big-budget MGM film (with Technicolor!) starring superstars Joan Crawford and James Stewart and other then-big names none of whom could actually skate and so was appropriately dreadful
Of course, Henie's fame has completely vanished except for the history books, so it shows how fleeting that of even the biggest names in any sport since and now could be. In only a few years it could be "Sasha/Kamila who?"
And I suspect if you asked a Japanese cross-selection, the Golden Age was Mao through to Shoma.
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Michael Martinez also does a Biellmann which became a running gag to the top ladies in the field when doing it and also Lucas Broussard sometimes do that but not often due to disc injury.
I agree with this one since people from a certain time period have different preferences it's just that there is a need for balance of enticing new fans while maintaining older ones plus a ton of restructuring which is many to mention.About the "Golden Age of Figure Skating Popularity," I think that this can mean different things to different people.
The golden age of participatory skating and high society: the first decade of the twentieth century.
The Golden Age of Showgirls on Ice: the 1920s–30s when touring shows like Shipstad and Johnson were all the rage and Sonia Henie short-skirted her way to becoming the biggest box office draw in Hollywood.
The Golden Age of the American Man: the 1950s when U.S. men swept into the vacuum left by World War II and won 4 consecutive Olympic titles.
The Golden Age of, “See, this isn't a namby-pamby powder puff sport after all”: the mid-1990s when Tonya Harding, Nancy Kerrigan and Oksana Baiul produced the (then) all-time biggest audience in the history of televised sporting events for the ladies’ long program at the 1994 Olympics.
The Golden Age of ladies going higher, faster, stronger: the Russian Revolution of the late 2010s and early 2020s (replacing Russian men going higher, faster, stronger at the beginning of the twenty-first century)
(I won’t mention my personal favorite: Figure Skating goes truly international as marquee headliners Mao Asada and Yuna Kim go head to head to wrest figure skating from the clutches of European/North American exclusivity.
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- Sep 23, 2020
That is all very true. Each generation has their own heroes, and generations seem to change swiftly in figure skatingAbout the "Golden Age of Figure Skating Popularity," I think that this can mean different things to different people.
The golden age of participatory skating and high society: the first decade of the twentieth century.
The Golden Age of Showgirls on Ice: the 1920s–30s when touring shows like Shipstad and Johnson were all the rage and Sonia Henie short-skirted her way to becoming the biggest box office draw in Hollywood.
The Golden Age of the American Man: the 1950s when U.S. men swept into the vacuum left by World War II and won 4 consecutive Olympic titles.
The Golden Age of, “See, this isn't a namby-pamby powder puff sport after all”: the mid-1990s when Tonya Harding, Nancy Kerrigan and Oksana Baiul produced the (then) all-time biggest audience in the history of televised sporting events for the ladies’ long program at the 1994 Olympics.
The Golden Age of ladies going higher, faster, stronger: the Russian Revolution of the late 2010s and early 2020s (replacing Russian men going higher, faster, stronger at the beginning of the twenty-first century)
(I won’t mention my personal favorite: Figure Skating goes truly international as marquee headliners Mao Asada and Yuna Kim go head to head to wrest figure skating from the clutches of European/North American exclusivity.
Still I would add the Golden Age in men which cannot be missed, symbolized by the golden rain of Poohs falling on the ice from above when well-rounded skating stars were competing and winning not just with quads but with programs which kept the stalls full and made millions of people go back to watch for years. We can say it now safely - for years. Some greatest men programs ever come from this era and I do not mean just Yuzuru's although his, of course, in the first place as this era could be easily named after him.
And I am very consciously using the word "programs" as I think this is the clue for figure skating. You may score them bit by bit, element by element, jump by jump, as it is done, but in the end of the day it is programs that win over the audiences at large. Or they don't.
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- Jan 31, 2019
Yes, too bad the Golden age of men and women that happened in about the same period, where the techical elements of awesome complexity were wooven into lovely programs by both divisions, and performed by strong personalities skating with admirable competitive spirit and ardor in both divisions was not allowed to continue and grow to encompass the other two disciplines. As always, we never appreciate what we have until it's gone, and now it had been curtailed and limited, and stands to be even further curtailed and limited. Now, we are back to the washroom principle of figure skating. Jumps for boys, spirals for girls.
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