Johnny Weir is talking nonsense...

[gellio]

Weir gave a wonderful performance last night, and I believe it was undermarked throughout. Yes he does not have the quad but every jump he landed was beautiful, fast, and had wonderful exits. His spins are also among the best. I had him 3rd in the free skate. His chor is great too. I truly believe that once he gets a solo 4 and a 4-3 he will definitely be a challanger.

I think Plushy deserved the win last night, but I don't think Weir's remarks are way off. Plushy's program did more for me than it usually does, but it's almost like jump....skate....jump.....spin....skate....jump....skate....spin....jump, etc...with nothing in between. His footwork was fantastic - so I give him snaps for that - but there's little chor in his programs. He has great speed so that's another plus for him, but his spin positions are just not too good. I think he doesn't have a rival yet because he is the most consistent skater out there, but once some of these other skaters deliver to their full potential, I see him having still competition.

If Weir can match Plushy's jumps than I don't think Plushy stands a chance against Weir. Weir gave one of my favorite performances ever at worlds or olympics last night because it was so graceful, powerful, and packed with chor. It was amazing. He is a natural artist.

I thought Joubert did great and that it should have been closer between him and Plushy - however - Joubert needs more work on the 2nd mark.

It was a fantastic night of skating and I think Weir was just being honest - and correct - about Plushy's program.

 

[gellio]

I don't know what there is about him but his overall look doesn't do it for me. Yeah other guys do the same motions, have similar elements in their programs, even do outright feminine things in their programs and yet they don't look like girls. Johnny looks like a girl out there (it probably didn't help him that he skated so slow). I agree about the comparisons to John Curry though. I think Johnny skates a lot like Curry, kind of into himself instead of relating to an audience plus Curry was slow and deliberate with his presentation as well. John Curry doesn't do it for me either.

Maybe Johnny's arrogance turns me off. I get the impression from his skating that he's somewhat arrogant and aloof and maybe that's why I don't like him.

I disagree that he looked like a girl and skated slow. Yes he wasn't as fast as some of the other skaters - but he was still fast. Also, he does not look like a girl. He looks graceful, elegant, and artistic - something I think is as important in men's skating as it is in women's.

 

[April]

Constructive Criticism

Figure skating is a sport and "trash" talking umps the game. Johnny Weir can be critical if he wants; its his sport. Pluskenco is not the best artisitic skater, most people know that; however, he is a heck of a technician and that speaks volumes for his athleticism. We all watched Plushy develop into world class skater with style, and I question if style is true artistry posing. Also, Weir didn't say half of what Yags and Plushy said about each other or about other competitors. Those two talked more trash than any rivials I have lived to see in figure skating. I just see that some folks would like to start in on how elagant Weir skates and follow into an agenda of how "fruity" Johnny skates. Weir gave constructive criticism that does not harm anyone in anyway. All anyone has to do is agree with him or disagree, period. I for one agree with him because, even with all the great men skaters, no one is constient enough to stand up to Plushy. If Sandu and Lambiel stand up to bar than, of course, Plushy would have constitent competition that will gave skating audiences more to cheer about. I don't think bombing one competition and nailing the next constitutes for a great skater, at best its just okay. Viva la France, Joubert is a strong competitor that can rival Plushy, but he lacks artisty; but he is rising to the occassion at each event, staying focus and not bombing. Lastly, what's wrong with a skater, such as Weir, wanting a chance to win against Plushy and with vocalize that sentiment. All world class skaters want to win. I hope, because you have to be in it to win it, and Johnny Weir is ready. Weir was only implying that he will challenge Plushy next season, more so in artistry. Go Johnny.

 

[dizzydi]

Johnny..............

There is no question in my mind that Johnny Weir was marked very low, especially on his short program. Frankly, I was stunned twice last night. First, by Johnny's low scores. Then, by the high scores for Pleshenko's performance, especially the presentation mark in the long program. Yes, Pleshenko is an accomplished jumper but.......his first combination jump almost came to a complete standstill. How the judges can defend 6.0's for presentation is beyond me. Not to even mention his fall. Absolutely horrible judging!

Getting to the point about Johnny's comment.....if he did make that statement about Pleshenko's presentation it probably wasn't the most diplomatic thing to say. However, I notice that when someone states the truth, people get very riled up.

I keep rude opinions about skaters to myself mostly because I might be trashing someone's favorite skater. We are all entitled to our opinion but we should keep some diginity in the process.

Dizzy

 

[JonnyCoop]

I think the comment was just flat-out rude. Whether it is true or not is certainly a matter of opinion, but it was still rude. And what makes it even more so IMO is that the high points of Weir's resume are 1 National title and a 5th-place Worlds showing, and he's talking trash about a 3-time World Champion/Olympic silver medallist. It's kind of along the lines of a tennis player ranked #114 talking trash about the playing of the #1 player or something. Though arrogance, in some form or degree, seems to be the thing now among the men. Plushenko and Weiss lead the pack in this area, and I'm starting to think Joubert might be starting to get Swelled Head Syndrome as well. Weir should have just kept his mouth shut. You would never hear stuff like that coming out of the mouths of guys like Yagudin, Stojko, or Eldredge.

As for Weir's skating, I liked it better here than I did in Atlanta, tho I could have done without the "head wringing" gestures. I wouldn't go so far as to say "fruity" (and, by the way, as a gay man, I did not find that comment offensive; I myself have used a variation of it on occasion to describe certain programs over the years given by the men) but his overall look IMO does have a feminine look to it, but I think it's more to do with his costuming than his actual skating.

 

[sk8m8]

I like elegant men as well, but Johnny's presentation was really girly (which is why I used the term fruity). I like the way Johnny skates and at Nats he's head and shoulders over everyone else. But here at Worlds, compared to the Europeans, I felt he skated like a junior and that program did nothing for Johnny. The whole standing in one place turning the pages of a book and he moved so slow. He had no zing and I was not impressed with his lack of speed. I think a guy can look elegant without coming off as a girl.

isn't if funny how homophobia and misogyny seem to crop up togeter. The 'fruity" part has been covered. As for girly ....I'd gladly "skate like a girl" ...Michelle, Kristi, Midori, Sarah, Sasha, Irina, why hell yeah!

 

[Tonichelle]

I like elegant men as well, but Johnny's presentation was really girly (which is why I used the term fruity). I like the way Johnny skates and at Nats he's head and shoulders over everyone else. But here at Worlds, compared to the Europeans, I felt he skated like a junior and that program did nothing for Johnny. The whole standing in one place turning the pages of a book and he moved so slow. He had no zing and I was not impressed with his lack of speed. I think a guy can look elegant without coming off as a girl.

girly and fruity are two totally seperate... fruity implies that he's gay as it's a term for gay(not a nice/positive one, but EVERYONE knows what it means )

Also, Johnny did not skate at Euros, so I'm confused by your Europeans comment?

PLEASE REFRAIN from simple bashing comments about a guy's preference. As far as I know Johnny has never "come out of the closet" and some of his friends whom I've talked to say he's NOT. So unless he comes out and says otherwise, I will not make any judgements. I'd hope you could do the same.

Maybe Johnny's arrogance turns me off. I get the impression from his skating that he's somewhat arrogant and aloof and maybe that's why I don't like him.

Not taking a cheap shot at guys... but aren't most "heterosexual men" into themselves, the whole ego thing? So that'd make Johnny a MANLY skater, right? *runs and hides from the male population*

 

[soogar]

www.usfsa.org

BTW that was no paraphrasing, I just copied and pasted.
For Europeans , I was referring the the skaters from Europe.

 

[Ptichka]

Re: Johnny..............

There is no question in my mind that Johnny Weir was marked very low, especially on his short program. Frankly, I was stunned twice last night. First, by Johnny's low scores. Then, by the high scores for Pleshenko's performance, especially the presentation mark in the long program.

Dizzy, don't forget that his is the ordinals system, so the marks themselves don't matter. I agree that Plushy did NOT give a 6.0 performance; however, all that mattered was that the judges put him in first. And (without the benefit of having seen Lambiel) I agree with the final placements.

Plushy pres
I think he is a very dramatic skater. I just think he needs a new choreographer fast! I really think this program was not a good ice skating program; it had perhaps many elements that would have looked good on stage, but not on the ice. I feel that with a new choreographer he would become next-to-untouchable (next-to, siince as S&Z showed anything can happen). As it is now, though, he is more than defeatable.

Johnny's pres
I like the lyricism of his skating. However, I think he still has some juniorish quality. His arm movements, while beautiful, don't yet have the definition and maturity that, say, Plushy's do. I am sure, though, that this will improve.

 

[soogar]

You can be an arrogant and sissy. I didn't think that arrogance was only linked with straight men, as there are gay men (or metrosexuals) who prance and preen as if the world revolves around them.

As for Weir criticizing Plushy, I admit that I didn't care for this performance of Plushy's LP. However Plushy does a lot more than stand and skate as evidenced in the SP. Plushy was superior to Johnny in jumps, spins, footwork and speed. Johnny needs to get a consistent quad and see how the rest of his program is affected by it before he criticizes a competitor b/c Johnny flat out does not have the technical elements to even challenge the top guys. I thought he was overmarked b/c Mikey at least made the attempt to step up to the plate and compete with the big boys by doing the quad jumps.

 

[Tonichelle]

gay men (or metrosexuals) who prance and preen as if the world revolves around them.

From what I understand "metrosexuals" are "straight men" who like the finer things in life... am I right?


as for Johnny's comment I don't think anyone's knocking you for saying it's way out of line... I think where everyone(including myself) is upset is the fact that you came out with some very negative things about Johnny that had NOTHING TO DO with the comment.

And whether he has a quad or not does not make him GAY either good grief if that's the case then there are a lot of guys out there that don't know they're gay.

 

[soogar]

Where did I say that not having a quad made you gay???

I just don't like Johnny's look. BTW there are openly gay skaters who look like men on the ice , ie Orser. I agree with Coop that Johnny's costume did not help him and the choice of music was not the best one.

 

[Ptichka]

Metrosexual

Actually, Metrosexual can be of either sexual orientation (though the term usually means staright). Here is a Definition from WordSpy: "An urban male with a strong aesthetic sense who spends a great deal of time and money on his appearance and lifestyle." If you go to the link, it provides some interesting context.

 

[rpiche]

Re: Constructive Criticism

Figure skating is a sport and "trash" talking umps the game. Johnny Weir can be critical if he wants; its his sport. Pluskenco is not the best artisitic skater, most people know that; however, he is a heck of a technician and that speaks volumes for his athleticism. We all watched Plushy develop into world class skater with style, and I question if style is true artistry posing. Also, Weir didn't say half of what Yags and Plushy said about each other or about other competitors. Those two talked more trash than any rivials I have lived to see in figure skating. I just see that some folks would like to start in on how elagant Weir skates and follow into an agenda of how "fruity" Johnny skates. Weir gave constructive criticism that does not harm anyone in anyway. All anyone has to do is agree with him or disagree, period. I for one agree with him because, even with all the great men skaters, no one is constient enough to stand up to Plushy. If Sandu and Lambiel stand up to bar than, of course, Plushy would have constitent competition that will gave skating audiences more to cheer about. I don't think bombing one competition and nailing the next constitutes for a great skater, at best its just okay. Viva la France, Joubert is a strong competitor that can rival Plushy, but he lacks artisty; but he is rising to the occassion at each event, staying focus and not bombing. Lastly, what's wrong with a skater, such as Weir, wanting a chance to win against Plushy and with vocalize that sentiment. All world class skaters want to win. I hope, because you have to be in it to win it, and Johnny Weir is ready. Weir was only implying that he will challenge Plushy next season, more so in artistry. Go Johnny.

The thing about trash talking is that you have to have the goods to back it up. Yagudin and Evgeny were always close competition. You never know who could knock who off. Yes, Weir is a good skaters, but so far he couldn't challenge Evgeny on technical or presentation marks. Now if Jouber or Sandhu was quoted as saying that, then I could see it. But they didn't.

 

[dizzydi]

Johnny.......

Ptichka,

Of course, you are right about the ordinal system and placement. That might perhaps explain the 6.0's for Pleshenko. Your reminder was helpful, thanks.

Perhaps what I should say is that I don't think Pleshenko's artistics mark should been higher than Jourbert or Lindeman. Both, in my opinion, had better artistic presentation than Pleshenko.

Dizzy

 

[curious]

Weir gave a wonderful performance last night, and I believe it was undermarked throughout. Yes he does not have the quad but every jump he landed was beautiful, fast, and had wonderful exits. His spins are also among the best. I had him 3rd in the free skate. His chor is great too. I truly believe that once he gets a solo 4 and a 4-3 he will definitely be a challanger.

I think Plushy deserved the win last night, but I don't think Weir's remarks are way off. Plushy's program did more for me than it usually does, but it's almost like jump....skate....jump.....spin....skate....jump....skate....spin....jump, etc...with nothing in between. His footwork was fantastic - so I give him snaps for that - but there's little chor in his programs. He has great speed so that's another plus for him, but his spin positions are just not too good. I think he doesn't have a rival yet because he is the most consistent skater out there, but once some of these other skaters deliver to their full potential, I see him having still competition.

If Weir can match Plushy's jumps than I don't think Plushy stands a chance against Weir. Weir gave one of my favorite performances ever at worlds or olympics last night because it was so graceful, powerful, and packed with chor. It was amazing. He is a natural artist.

I thought Joubert did great and that it should have been closer between him and Plushy - however - Joubert needs more work on the 2nd mark.

It was a fantastic night of skating and I think Weir was just being honest - and correct - about Plushy's program.

Is easy for johnny to talk about challenging the best technical skater doing the most difficult combos that no other skater does than actually do it. He has to land a quad first and do more difficult combos if he wants to challenge plushy same thing goes for Joubert. He has nice jumps but no difficult combos like a 4-3-2, 4-3-3 or a 4-3-3-2 lol! I'm sure Yags is going to force the poor guy to do things he just can't do. Next year is going to be very interesting especially for those who keep talking the talk but can't walk the walk lol! I wonder what happened to Johnny's admiration for Plushy's skating, I gue what happened to your past so called admiration for Plushy huh? I guess mami tarasova change his mind

 

[equestrianguy]

Hey, Im a fruity male and Id give my teeth to skate like Sasha Cohen! LOL Yepp, in a swan lake knock off or a pair of wornout jeans ,white t-shirt, and a cowboy hat..lol You bet!! Anyday!!!

 

[Jill]

A few years back I (along with other people) made the call that Weir is definitely one to watch. Even after last year's disaster at Nat'ls, I still believed it. I like Johnny's skating and I think he's as cute as a button. However, he's making himself very hard to like when I hear grand standing statements such as the ones posted.

We deserve better, Johnny.:\

 

[soogar]

We've talked a lot on the thread on how we would like skaters to be more honest and the argument is that when they are honest, we hammer them for it. My whole take is that I didn't think that Johnny was that great and he's criticizing Plushy for standing around. I think that Johnny needs to incorporate a quad in his program first and then see how hard it is to do it on a consistant basis and to keep up the level of the rest of his skating. Plus Johnny could have just talked about how great HIS results were and how he is going to work much harder to challenge Plushy. He didn't have to downgrade everyone else in the competition as if he was even close to what the guys in the top four were doing. Puhleease... I think Johnny has his work cut out for him to try to beat Lambiel and Joubert, let alone Plushenko. The European skaters were a lot better than Johnny and the field didn't even include Takeshi Honda who is also a pretty solid skater. I also think that the Europeans really challenged Plushenko on the second mark. I like Lindemann's presentation and Lambiel already has the goods. Joubert is going to get better as well.

A lot of folks got on Mikey Weiss for saying that Johnny skates like a junior skater saying that he had a case of sour grapes. ITA with Mikey that Johnny is doing combos that the kids are doing in juniors. Plus Johnny has all the raw materials to be great, but he has a lot of development he needs to go through before he can even crack the top 3 w/out everyone having a meltdown.

 

[Catsister]

Be nice to Johnny!

I like Johnny. If he can do a quad and stay healthy, I think he will be one of the best ever. His gentleness and balletic qualities should be considered assets, not drawbacks.

As for his remarks--well, it's hard to understand someone's intentions in print, without hearing the inflections in their voices. He could have been dead serious when he said it, or he could have been semi-joking, or the reporter could've been, "come on, come on, what do you really think of Plushenko?" and he gave him/her what he/she wanted to hear.I wouldn't be too offended about it, and anyway, he's absolutely right if you ask me--Evgeni, Evgeny, Yevgeny (this poor man's name is never spelled the same way twice on the various figure skating broadcasts) does stand still a lot, and the day may come when the judges mark him down because of it.

As for his masculinity--it's true that an icicle is not the most macho of costumes--but look at Alexei Urmonov. He's married with 2 kids, last I heard, and he used to dress like a dust ruffle.

The best end to this argument? Put him on "Queer Eye." He'll either get a makeover, so he looks older and stronger, or he'll meet 5 potential boyfriends! Either way, he can't lose.