Johnny Weir is talking nonsense...

[sarahmistral]

LOL Catsister!!

OT but glad you brought it up; a question for any of our Russian posters, how DO you PROPERLY transliterate/spell Yevgeny's name?

Sarah

 

[Doggygirl]

LOL Catsister!

That last line offered me some much needed comic relief!!! Welcome to Goldenskate!!

DG

 

[Jill]

Amen, Doggygirl!

 

[Ptichka]

Re: LOL Catsister!!

OT but glad you brought it up; a question for any of our Russian posters, how DO you PROPERLY transliterate/spell Yevgeny's name?

Well, if you want to translate it, it would certainly be Eugene (they translate Pushkin's poem as Eugene Onegin after all).
As to transliteration -- it's hard because the Cyrillic alphabet has more letters than the Latin does. If I had to, I would write it as Yevgenij. Or you can just use his nickname Zhenya.

 

[Jill]

I like Zhenya, it's cute.

 

[show 42]

I am a new found admirer of Johnny.........I thought his long program was brilliant.......so much a combination of John Curry and Robin Cousins..........I know he didn't have a quad, but I would have had him bumped up one more place to 4th......42

 

[RealtorGal]

Re: Be nice to Johnny!

As for his masculinity--it's true that an icicle is not the most macho of costumes--but look at Alexei Urmonov. He's married with 2 kids, last I heard, and he used to dress like a dust ruffle.

Actually, he used to dress IN a dust ruffle!

 

[dmr65]

Re: Re: Constructive Criticism

The thing about trash talking is that you have to have the goods to back it up. Yagudin and Evgeny were always close competition. You never know who could knock who off..

Bingo! This is why I don't understand some of the dethrowning of Plush's talents made by some in other places... Plush and Yags are/were the kings.. You were watching two great champions.. You never knew who would win.. It was Great!!

 

[April]

Re: Re: Re: Constructive Criticism

Bingo! This is why I don't understand some of the dethrowning of Plush's talents made by some in other places... Plush and Yags are/were the kings.. You were watching two great champions.. You never knew who would win.. It was Great!!

I disagree totally. Plush and Yags are great skaters, but kings. Anyway, I think skaters should share their critical views, nice, nasty, stale, or whatever. Sport's culture is built upon trash talking. Nobody is dethrowing Plush. His artistry has just come into its own. Gee whiz, Plush is not really known for his presentation skill is he (looking back into his whole career, I'd say he's a jumping god if there ever ways one )? Besides, other skaters are declaring a challenge against Plush, and that's a good thing. He is the one to beat. Lastly, Johnny Weir didn't bomb, so he gets bragging rights and trash talking privileges.

 

[TMC8802]

wow...i dont even know what to say

ummm soogar...you'd call plushy's skating manly and johnny's effeminate? hmmm...that's.........different??? i would call plushy's skating far from manly but i wouldnt call it effeminate and i wouldnt call johnny's manly or effeminate either...i think those are pretty big wors on johnny's part but i dont think its anything to bash him about...they're both great skaters...but at this worlds NIETHER OF THEM DESERVED GOLD!!!! joubert was ROBBED!!!! absolutely ridiculous...he and michelle kwan should attack the judges for being bulls**t

 

[rpiche]

Re: Be nice to Johnny!

As for his masculinity--it's true that an icicle is not the most macho of costumes--but look at Alexei Urmonov. He's married with 2 kids, last I heard, and he used to dress like a dust ruffle.

The best end to this argument? Put him on "Queer Eye." He'll either get a makeover, so he looks older and stronger, or he'll meet 5 potential boyfriends! Either way, he can't lose.

Having a wife and kids don't necessarily mean that he is not gay. But I get your point.

 

[rpiche]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Constructive Criticism

I disagree totally. Plush and Yags are great skaters, but kings. Anyway, I think skaters should share their critical views, nice, nasty, stale, or whatever. Sport's culture is built upon trash talking. Nobody is dethrowing Plush. His artistry has just come into its own. Gee whiz, Plush is not really known for his presentation skill is he (looking back into his whole career, I'd say he's a jumping god if there ever ways one )? Besides, other skaters are declaring a challenge against Plush, and that's a good thing. He is the one to beat. Lastly, Johnny Weir didn't bomb, so he gets bragging rights and trash talking privileges.

Trash about talking the champion when you are in 5th place seems a little cocky to me. He didn't bomb but he didn't have the goods to compete with Evgeny either.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I like elegant men as well, but Johnny's presentation was really girly (which is why I used the term fruity). I like the way Johnny skates and at Nats he's head and shoulders over everyone else. But here at Worlds, compared to the Europeans, I felt he skated like a junior and that program did nothing for Johnny. The whole standing in one place turning the pages of a book and he moved so slow. He had no zing and I was not impressed with his lack of speed. I think a guy can look elegant without coming off as a girl.

I'm not sure 'girly' equates with 'fruity' As to feminism, Tschaikowsky, Berstein, Wagner, Chopin, etc, have all been accused of writing feminine music. So what???

As to homosexuality, it doesn't take a psycharist to pick out a homophobe who are notoriously unhappy in their own personal lives. Sad!!!!!

Joe

By the way, Johnnz beat a lot of Europeans -about 20 in his first Worlds.

 

[PrincessLeppard]

Good God, I have no idea what to make of this thread. First off, who in heck are "everyone" and "all these people" who "know" that Evgeni doesn't have good artistry and presentation? Beginning with Gypsy Dance, I really thought he was beginning to feel and express the music, and the first time I saw the Adagio SP live (Bofrost), I nearly cried, it was so beautiful. However, I realize that artistry is subjective, and some people don't like Evgeni's style, but don't state that he's only known as jumper as if this were a fact.

Second, I love Johnny, and with a consistent quad, I do believe he can challenge Evgeni. (Evgeni's preferred way of spelling his name in English, btw
) His remarks were a little tactless, but given that he's 19 and just kicked ass at his first major worlds, I'm willing to let him have a swelled head for a week or so. Then he needs to calm down, lest he turn into a Mikey.

Third? Plush, arrogant? I don't see it.

And fourth, who the heck compared Plush's skating to Elvis S as an example of overly manly skating???? I don't particularly care for Elvis's "I'm a man, dammit" style of skating, and I would never, ever put a man who does a Biellman in this category! He's got lacey cuffs on his LP costume, for God's sake. Which I love, by the way.

Okay, I think I've addressed everything....

Laura

 

[hockeyfan228]

The second mark isn't just about "artistry." Depending on the system there are eight different elements (OBO) or five sections with a series of descriptions for each that go beyond "artistry."

Weir was factual in saying that no one has challenged Plushenko on the second mark. No one got higher Program Elements marks in any GP event, including the GPF. Plushenko got superior pre marks at Euros counting all judges, with odds of at least even marks after the random selection, and they were uncharacteristically low for a program with multiple glitches. He got a string of 5.9's at Worlds '03, and Goebel didn't even earn an ordinal.

It doesn't matter how beautifully choreographed Lambiel's programs are, if his pre scores aren't competitive with Plushenko. It doesn't matter that Joubert has a different type of artistry that I find equally valid, especially after having seen the program in person twice here in Dortmund, if the judges don't recognize it. Who besides Sandhu, Joubert, and Goebel have gotten close to or beaten Plushenko in the last two years?

Weir wants to take on the second mark, and I think that's a good thing for Men's skating. In his first Worlds, with almost no international recognition as a senior he placed 5th, and he was grossly undermarked in his quali round. Quite a launching place, especially if he gets a quad, because if CoP is implemented according to the written descriptions, his entrances and exits from jumps should earn him +2's on most of them.

 

[IDLERACER]

Every time Johnny Weir skates, one can easily see, on a spiritual level, Rudy Galindo passing his baton...eeww, I just realized that that observation unintentionally sounds unsuitable for a G-rated forum. Anyhow, years from now when he retires from the rink, I'm sure he'll have a long and lucrative career doing red-carpet fashion commentary at various different award ceremonies.

 

[RussianBolero]

Johnny's remarks about Plush sounded like constructive criticism to me. The section which was quoted, anyway, didn't sound like a personal attack. He was discussing Plush's skating, not discussing him as a person. I'm fine with it.

As to the costume, isn't an icicle a phallic symbol?

 

[skatingsarah]

About Johnny's remarks on Plushy
I dont think he really crossed any lines here at all. I mean I actaully agree with the whole standing around alot part of his presentation. I dont think he was really meaning to put him down much like some of you have already mentioned it was more so constructive critisim.
On the other hand, skating is a world where once you say something its posted in the paper and well boards like this. Personally if you are going to be a critic to other people skating you keep it to yourself and not really announce it to the press you know? Real champions dont talk about other skaters technique and presentation they keep to themselves. No doubt about it I'm still a new found fan for Johnny but as much as I agree with everything he said maybe its wise to keep your goals to yourself and not announce it to the press when it includes be a critic to a world champion.... Even if it is true

 

[TRAxel]

Weir gave a wonderful performance last night, and I believe it was undermarked throughout. Yes he does not have the quad but every jump he landed was beautiful, fast, and had wonderful exits. His spins are also among the best. I had him 3rd in the free skate. His chor is great too. I truly believe that once he gets a solo 4 and a 4-3 he will definitely be a challanger.

I think Plushy deserved the win last night, but I don't think Weir's remarks are way off. Plushy's program did more for me than it usually does, but it's almost like jump....skate....jump.....spin....skate....jump....skate....spin....jump, etc...with nothing in between. His footwork was fantastic - so I give him snaps for that - but there's little chor in his programs. He has great speed so that's another plus for him, but his spin positions are just not too good. I think he doesn't have a rival yet because he is the most consistent skater out there, but once some of these other skaters deliver to their full potential, I see him having still competition.

If Weir can match Plushy's jumps than I don't think Plushy stands a chance against Weir. Weir gave one of my favorite performances ever at worlds or olympics last night because it was so graceful, powerful, and packed with chor. It was amazing. He is a natural artist.

I thought Joubert did great and that it should have been closer between him and Plushy - however - Joubert needs more work on the 2nd mark.

It was a fantastic night of skating and I think Weir was just being honest - and correct - about Plushy's program.

ITA with you...thank you for saying all the things I wanted to say

 

[dlkksk8fan]

As for his masculinity--it's true that an icicle is not the most macho of costumes--but look at Alexei Urmonov. He's married with 2 kids, last I heard, and he used to dress like a dust ruffle.

The best end to this argument? Put him on "Queer Eye." He'll either get a makeover, so he looks older and stronger, or he'll meet 5 potential boyfriends! Either way, he can't lose.

catsister- welcome and you had me laughing on this one

Oh and Plush does stand around and pose too much, I want to see continuous skating! Flow, flow ,flow not stop, stop, stop!