Joubert still miffed about worlds finish

[Kasey]

Not sure how much the quad is "advancing the sport" since it was first done 20 years ago, and really seemed to hit it's heyday in the late 90s-2004 or so. But. Whatever.

The point of it is, Joubert has been an elite skater, and in the senior ranks for long enough to KNOW that his comments will be made public. He is not a child, and he isn't naive to how the press can be (Miss France, anyone??) It's up to him and his "team" to see that he doesn't come off like a spoiled brat in his interviews and comments about competitors. This is not the first time that has been iffy for Joubert, just like it wasn't the first time his over-confidence let or almost let a win slip through his fingers.

If he's talking about playing the CoP game and coming out with better footwork and spins and better artistry next year, bravo to him. And then I'll wait until I see it.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

What I did read was the interview in which he said that he admires Stephane's spins (well, who wouldn't) and the quality of his skating and considers him "dangerous" (which I imagine he meant in a positive way). This would be the same 2005 interview in which he spoke positively about Sandhu, Weir and Buttle. I also remember that he expressed his disappointment at Stephane not being at 2007 Euros, because he wanted them to compete for the title.

I really don't know how to react to this except to say what should I feel with this information? Has any other skater written out his pros and cons of his competitors? My interest in figure skating is mainly on the ice. Brian is a top competitor for me and that's what I care about.

Joe

 

[hockeyfan228]

Brian just wants the system to take quads and triple axels more into account, because as they are underrated, skaters can now get away with not doing any, as it doesn't always pay off, and that's not helping skating progress.

If he thinks the 3Axel is so underrated, then why did he twice complain about Buttle's win to the media immediately after the event, taking away rightful attention from the winner and questioning that win? He didn't just complain to the French press: he complained in the official ISU post-event press conference. Buttle had two triple axels to Joubert's one in his Worlds long program, and one of them was in combination.

 

[BigJohn]

I really dislike the little French dude more and more now. How full of yourself do you have to be to say something like:

"Actually I still am very mad. Not so much against my competitor, who had the perfect championship. What is at stake is the future of figure skating."

So he is not mad at Buttle. Great. What is he mad about? He does not really say does he...

Is he mad about the future of skating? Well if the future of figure skating is someone portraying James Bond wearing 007 in the back of your costume, then the future of figure skating is mighty cheesy, and I'll take a future of figure skating more like Ararat than his 007 number.

And by the way, how does that make ANY sense at all? If you are a freaking spy, why would you wear your spy # in glittering numbers on your freaking back?

But I disgress...

He then goes on to say

"Sport is meant for athletic prowess. What I see now is a decrease of the technical level of skating, so I am very worried about that."

Well, since he had a lower technical level than the winner, what exactly he is whining about? Seems he's the one with a decrease of the technical level of skating. What was that amazing combo he did again? 2A-1T?

Wow. Talk about athletic prowess. Now is he serious or delusional?

Then he goes on about taking risks, while he's the one who played it safe. So what point is trying to make exactly?

I think sore loser applies perfectly to his attitude:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sore+loser

What I think of Joubert can be best summed up in this wonderful memory of Red Forman, just replace Frank by Brian...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_31gClK_qqA

 

[Buttercup]

Joesitz, I'm not sure what your point was. You seemed interested in what I based my comment on, and I posted in response to that. I'd rather keep the discussion to on the ice, too. Let's all try and do that.

BigJohn, it is possible to say "I prefer skater X" without being nasty about skater Y. Joubert's been making variations on the same comment about quads for about 4 years. He thinks it's important for the sport for the top guys to be doing the hardest jumps. You're certainly welcome to disagree with it, but as I wrote before, it's a valid argument many agree with and not something he came up with because he was beaten by Jeffrey Buttle (who is not my personal favorite, but whom I respect as a skater and competitor).

I'm honestly tired of the discussion of his tech content in the last two Worlds: he was back from an injury in 2007 - you try slicing your foot open and then doing your hardest stuff just a few weeks later - and back from illness this year. There's no way for any of us to know exactly what kind of shape he was in. If he wasn't 100%, I'm glad he scaled back his programs.

But clearly you dislike him, so whatever I write won't really matter. I'll just end this post by noting that you must have a very interesting definition of what a sore loser is, because a guy who says, I need to improve this and this and that about my skating, and the guy who beat me skated a perfect competition, is not the one I would apply that label to.

I wonder how many people read the full interview, though. It seems a lot of the posts here are based on the headline.

 

[indicatoto101]

Joesitz

I'm honestly tired of the discussion of his tech content in the last two Worlds: he was back from an injury in 2007 - you try slicing your foot open and then doing your hardest stuff just a few weeks later - and back from illness this year. There's no way for any of us to know exactly what kind of shape he was in. If he wasn't 100%, I'm glad he scaled back his programs.

All the more reason for him to be more humbling. It sounds like he thinks he should've won because he combated an illness, went out there and did his best. Judging doesn't work that way, especially when your best includes yes the all-powerful quad but only one triple axel and a double axel/1 toe combo.

 

[hockeyfan228]

I'm honestly tired of the discussion of his tech content in the last two Worlds: he was back from an injury in 2007 - you try slicing your foot open and then doing your hardest stuff just a few weeks later - and back from illness this year. There's no way for any of us to know exactly what kind of shape he was in. If he wasn't 100%, I'm glad he scaled back his programs.

I'm honestly tired of his injuries and illnesses being used as a reason for his conservatism and scaled back programs when he, not we, complained of a lack of risk and technical content from the winner as if he had somehow delivered a risky and more technically difficult program that was dissed by the judges.

If he hadn't whined about it and displayed poor sportsmanship, it wouldn't be an issue, and a silver medals would have been seen as a great accomplishment given the year he had, as great as Shen/Zhao's comeback for the Olympics (although nothing beats Morosov breaking his ankle the November before the Olympics, and skating at them three months later with Volosozhar.)

He's subjected himself to criticism by his own comments and inability to control himself.

 

[Kinga]

I'm honestly tired of his injuries and illnesses being used as a reason for his conservatism and scaled back programs when he, not we, complained of a lack of risk and technical content from the winner as if he had somehow delivered a risky and more technically difficult program that was dissed by the judges.

If he hadn't whined about it and displayed poor sportsmanship, it wouldn't be an issue, and a silver medals would have been seen as a great accomplishment given the year he had, as great as Shen/Zhao's comeback for the Olympics (although nothing beats Morosov breaking his ankle the November before the Olympics, and skating at them three months later with Volosozhar.)

He's subjected himself to criticism by his own comments and inability to control himself.

I totally agree with you. Plus, he did not critisize Buttle, but saying that he is still mad to lose, is sort of bad losing, especially if he goes on and on about it. You don't have to insult someone to be considered as bad loser.

 

[Bennett]

Hmmm, but Joubert has not been the first and last to complain about defeat.

I watched Yuka Sato winning the World title live. I traveled all the way to the competition with my FS club members. It was really exciting and wonderful to see Yuka doing her best and win Was it her first podium finish? I don't know. Anyway, it was such a beautiful, happy moment. It was really fantastic.

But Sulya Bonaly was really hurt and upset about getting the silver and did something to show her protest against judges. IIRC, she took her silver medal off during the medal ceremony??? or something like that.

I initially didn't understand what's going on at all. I was just really surprised to see the drama all of the sudden. Then I came to understand Bonaly's anguish later. She would have had all the reasons to be so upset and hurt. But I still felt sorry for Yuka. Although Sulya perhaps didn't necessarily mean to be intentionally rude or arrogant to Yuka, the joy of her victory was somewhat ruined by such an unusual atmosphere created by this drama. It was supposed to be Yuka's moment, with the national song performed in front of the home crowds. Yuka put all her energy to earn this title. Although I wouldn't necessarily assume that Yuka had taken it perseonally, she would have at least wanted to enjoy the pure happiness without such an unusual, stressful incident.

It is true that Joubert's comment—to imply as if the winner hadn't deserved the title because of the lack of the quad—was pretty rude. Even if he meant only to suggest changes in system, and didn't intentionally mean to personally insult the winner, it was not the most appropriate comment to make in front of the winner who deservingly won the game under the current system. I felt sorry that most of Jeff’s victory articles mentioned this incident when the stories could have been all about celebration of Jeff’s greatness. But compared to what I saw at Yuka's case or other incidents that have happened in Olympics, this incident is not really painful. Jeff gave such a classy response to Joubert’s comment, which was greatly appreciated by those who observed it, and Joubert also acknowledged Jeff’s perfect program.

In any case, both Yuka and Jeff earned these titles. No one can take them away .

 

[NatachaHatawa]

I wonder how many people read the full interview, though. It seems a lot of the posts here are based on the headline.

I completely agree. One can or not agree with Brian, but if one reads the article completely, one understands Brian's reaction better. I personnaly think he did over-react and that Jeff deserved gold, but I am little shocked at the point difference. But then again, being a huge fan of his (and being French), I "know" him very well and so understand his reaction better just like his view on the system. I think these last years he has matured a lot and understands the system better, and I like the way he has come to understand the need for spins, footwork and artistry to be taken into account. I really think his monumental catastrphe at the Olympics did him the world of good. Mentaly, Brian has turned from being just an athelete into being a skater. That doesn't change the fact though that quands are underated, and he's not afraid to say so.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Natachahatawa (a great native american?) - I don't know if you were in Gotenborg, but if you were, you would have greatly enjoyed Brian's LP skate. he did much more than pose a la 007. He had a good routine, he had rhythm, he had won over the audiene. I think too, the judges until Buttle came on with that little bit extra. As a fan, it could be crushing but I think he is on track for Vancouver, and that's where the dream is. Do you remember Jean Claude Killy?

My one and only favorite skater, Stephane, bombed and bombed badly. I am not a native of Switzerland so I am not influenced by my nationality. I'm just being patient.

Joe

 

[NatachaHatawa]

Natachahatawa (a great native american?) - I don't know if you were in Gotenborg, but if you were, you would have greatly enjoyed Brian's LP skate. he did much more than pose a la 007. As a fan, it could be crushing but I think he is on track for Vancouver,

Joe

I completely agree! He really was great! It's just that as a Frenchy I've seen him skate this program so many times over the last two years that it will be nice to see a new LP. I'm glad he did his last performance of it the way he did, with so much energy, it's a nice way to end the "metallica era".

As for being on track for vancouver, I agree with you there too. He's closer than ever.
As a Brian fan: Jeff deserved gold! (believe me I really don't like Jeff's skating, but he was the best!)

 

[sillylionlove]

Ok...so I finally read the article. It appears to me that Brian is upset that he did a quad and lost to a skater who didn't. I feel like he thinks that if you do a quad and land it cleanly that you should win regardless of the rest of the program. Again, this is just my opinion. While Brian did well during his long program, Jeff was much better, even without the quad. So I think that Brian needs to understand that you can win without doing a quad and should really start to get over this and move on.

 

[mycelticblessing]

I'm really glad this kind of interview came out in English. Since World's, I've only ever heard Brian manage to explain himself in French press. I agree with everything he says about the system.
Some people would sat say he's a sore looser, but I'd say he's humain and honest. Other skaters are even sorer but just grit their teeth to preserve their image, at least Brian's honest.

I think it's more important that athletes ''grit their teeth'' rather than be 'honest'. I think that having the discipline and the ability to accept what the result is is one of the most important aspect of sportsmanship. Crticising the system as well as Buttle's lack of a quad, in my opinion, probably made him lose alot of respect which people had for him.

 

[calica]

I do not believe that he loses very much respect for it . First because he does not criticize Buttle, but he believes that the system of punctuation has to be modified. Those who were estimating it before will know that what he said is not new because he says it for 2 years (he and Plushenko, lambiel , lysacek and the majority of europeans trainers and judges)
And those who do not likehim, will have a new excuse. If he had not spoken after the Lp, they would criticize him for another thing (That his silver is not just, that have given him many punctuation in artistic, that the deduction for the music in the short one was just .........)

If you do not believe me, read this thread, the majority of those who criticize him they have not read the interview, only the heading ......

 

[hockeyfan228]

If you do not believe me, read this thread, the majority of those who criticize him they have not read the interview, only the heading ......

Or maybe some of us read multiple articles and the text of the press conference and drew our conclusions from the body of articles, as well as objecting to the timing of his comments just after the competition.

 

[Buttercup]

I think Joubert's comments were ill-timed, but personally I agree with the substance of what he's saying. I don't think the message is "Jeffrey Buttle is a bad skater", or "he didn't deserve to win". I do get the feeling that Brian would like all the top skaters to add the quad to their repertoire - he thinks it's important to the sport's progress for the top people to have top-notch technical content. I will NOT discuss his last two Worlds performances again in this respect because I have explained several times why I see them as irrelevant to this argument; those who disagree with me are welcome to do so but I think that subject has been debated quite enough. Anyway, I definitely agree that he should have expressed himself better and at a different time.

Unlike you, mycelticblessing, I don't think gritting one's teeth is the only sportsmanlike approach to a loss, and I value Brian's honesty, just as I like other skaters to speak their mind (e.g. Johnny, Evan) so long as it's done in a non-derogatory manner. I also disagree with Kinga that being mad about losing is bad sportsmanship; if you're mad that you lost and use it as a motivating tool to improve your own performance, that's a positive thing, in sports and in other areas. It's all a matter of finding the right outlet for your feelings; Brian's latest interview indicates to me that he's in the right direction in that respect.

I think Brian's comments may have been interpreted as being disrespectful towards Jeffrey, but that Jeffrey - being a smart guy and a classy competitor - understood that much of it was in the heat of the moment and was absolutely not directed at him personally. I was very impressed by how he handled the situation.

Personally, I think the most unsportsmanlike thing to do is to file a protest about the results of an event, as was unfortunately common in the wake of the SLC pairs controversy. I'm glad that's stopped. As for respect for Joubert, I think it's pretty much a wash. Those he didn't like him before won't like him any more now than they did before, and those who do probably won't mind - certainly not in the long run.

 

[Winnipeg]

I disagree that the quad should win regardless of anything. I prefer an artistic program that is very technical in jumps AND footwork, spins etc. I never found programs of just jumping appealing a la Tim Goebel, Kevin VDP, etc.

WRT sportsmanlike conduct, I thought Jeffrey handled it well, and Brian only served to make himself appear petty and whiny. Now, not only did he lose the Gold, he also lost the public relatinos game too......................

Also wrt sportsmanship, I agree that petitioning is not a great option however, in SLC, it was absolutely the right decision because in that case, a judge was found to have cheated and cheating should not be tolerated. Cheating is an example of the worst kind of poor sportsmanship. The judge should have been from international judging for life IMO.

 

[Dee4707]

The only thing I blame Brian for is that he really does seem to be saying, "I'm mad at this system because it allows an effete artiste like Buttle to beat a macho quad-man like me. The rules ought to be changed so this can't happen."

Math, I agree with Brian. I never thought of Jeff as one of the big guns. Don't get me wrong, I like Jeff and his style but I never thought of Jeff as a World champion.

I think of the big guns like Yagudin, Plushenko, Lambiel and others that put everything in their programs. I would never think that Alexei would even consider not doing a quad in either the SP or LP or any of the other big guns. Sorry but I was surprised that Jeff won too.

Dee

 

[Winnipeg]

and one more thing - Brian knows the RULES of the game. How can he complain after the fact that he should have won based on the quad when he knew full well what point value it has relative to other elements? Did he want the judges to change the Cop during the competition?

It's one thing to disagree with the rules - and processes available to try and change those rules. However while the rules are in place - play by them or forever hold your peace