Just HOW will the U.S. teams be picked?

[PolymerBob]

For some reason, that's the one thing I am not worried about. The dreaded Committee has no particular power over the judges. Why would the judges care what the committee wants?

Plus, what possible reason would the committee have for wanting one skater to win rather than another?

The committee cannot rig Nationals, but if the judges rig Nationals and send those rigged results to the committee, the committee will accept them.

 

[Sylvia]

The committee cannot rig Nationals, but if the judges rig Nationals and send those rigged results to the committee, the committee will accept them.

Don't know how and/or if you can assume that since there ARE judges and officials on the selection committee who are likely to notice any "rigged" results.

 

[silverlake22]

Don't know how and/or if you can assume that since there ARE judges and officials on the selection committee who are likely to notice any "rigged" results.

Good point, I think everyone is just preparing themselves for the worst. I really wish the US had 3 spots for the ladies, i'm curious to see how all of the 5 top contenders would fare there.

 

[R.D.]

Well, the real question is how did this "Committee" feel about last year's results?

 

[silverlake22]

Well, the real question is how did this "Committee" feel about last year's results?

Last year was weird in that Rachael and Caroline both delivered two good programs, but their programs were not particularly exciting or well choreographed, and neither skated with much emotion. So while technically one of them deserved to win, it's hard to say if either actually deserved to win? So then there's Ashley and Alissa, both had one great program and one bad program. Mirai was being scored on a different scale. So really, ladies senior nationals last year is still a question mark in my mind.

 

[Mathman]

Well, the real question is how did this "Committee" feel about last year's results?

Well, they sent U.S. Nationals #1 and #2 to Worlds, and they sent #1, #2, and #3 to Four Continents.

For the World Team trophy, though, they sent #2 and #3. I don't know whether they offered the spot to Alissa and she declined, or if they thought Zhang had been shafted at Nationals and gave her the shot instead.

The committee cannot rig Nationals, but if the judges rig Nationals and send those rigged results to the committee, the committee will accept them. ..

Again, maybe I am just a babe-in-the-woods, but why would the judges want to rig Nationals? What possible reason would the judges have for wanting one skater to win and another to lose?

I agree, though, that the subcommittee will not try to undercut or second guess the judges.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think the committee will agree with the results of nationals. Since there is no clear front-runner, the committee will have no reason not to simply endorse the nationals podium.
There are clear front-runners besides the Ladies which is your favorite division

Front Runners include Evan, McL/Bru,Bel/Ago for the US Nats. (no Ladies) can
eri
For the Olympics, it's Plushenko, Mao, Shen/Zhao, Dom/Shab,

{QUOTE} I think Davis and White are the real McCoy this year. I saw them skate their Nutcracker exhibition program last night. I think they are a legitimate candidate for gold in Vancouver. Lysacek could also medal, although there is lots of competition in mens.

Virtue/Moir!! but Dom/Shab will win.
Evan could podium but it will require a splat fest among the Europeans and Japanese.

For some reason, that's the one thing I am not worried about. The dreaded Committee has no particular power over the judges. Why would the judges care what the committee wants?

The Committee is not out to demean the judges. It's there to protect the American interests in the Olys based on the proven strongest skaters. They are not there just to be ornery. They will pick the best of the Nats' results if it is their line of thinking. As I said before , it is only Ladies (your favorite) which is questionable.

Plus, what possible reason would the committee have for wanting one skater to win rather than another?

Why would they select the GP participants? It's AMERICAN PRIDE!!!

 

[silverlake22]

What possible reason would the judges have for wanting one skater to win and another to lose?

Bias, obviously. So last year the winner could have been Caroline, Rachael, or Alissa. Now i'll write a little blurb about each skater at that time.

Caroline - 15, still sort of looks like a little girl (last year, not now), diva attitude, bad jump technique, flexible

Rachael - 16, jock, very normal teenager appearance/posture, good jumper, average spins

Alissa - 21, mature, feminine, beautiful, great spins, expressive, flexible, stuggles with jumps

Why do you think the USFSA wanted a certain skater to win? She has more "good" qualities than the other two. I could have almost understood it too if the other two girls in contention hadn't landed twice the number of triple jumps as the winner in the FS.

 

[chuckm]

Where is anyone seeing "expressiveness" in Alissa Czisny? To me, she is like a beautiful department store mannequin in action---smiling fixedly, somewhat stiff, cold and aloof. She has beautiful posture and exceptional spins and spiral, but to say she out-emoted anyone at last year's Nationals is a major overstatement.

IMO, Caroline is blank-faced and displays little emotion. She is all business on the ice, working her way through her paces, and only when she spins is she exciting.

 

[janetfan]

Where is anyone seeing "expressiveness" in Alissa Czisny? To me, she is like a beautiful department store mannequin in action---smiling fixedly, somewhat stiff, cold and aloof. She has beautiful posture and exceptional spins and spiral, but to say she out-emoted anyone at last year's Nationals is a major overstatement.

IMO, Caroline is blank-faced and displays little emotion. She is all business on the ice, working her way through her paces, and only when she spins is she exciting.

I guess there is more than one way to express yourself. IMO Alissa's skating can be very expressive at times. It is funny because I do sense a shy quality at times with Alissa (or is it nerves?) but I think the way she expresses herself to music is very good.

I agree with you about Caroline who can seem strangely detached from the audience and even her music at times.

Looking at Alena who seems to be bursting with excitement leaves me a little cold at times if she is ignoring the nuances to the music and just smiling more than what the moment seems to call for.

Yuna sometimes smiles, or changes expression as her music starts and before she even begins skating to it. That feels like a "choreographed smile/expression" to me - and judges seem to like it but it doesn't do alot for me.

On the whole I find Alissa to be an expressive skater who like Jeremy does not always emote as much to the audience but definitely shows expression to the music.

 

[museksk8r]

Where is anyone seeing "expressiveness" in Alissa Czisny? To me, she is like a beautiful department store mannequin in action---smiling fixedly, somewhat stiff, cold and aloof. She has beautiful posture and exceptional spins and spiral, but to say she out-emoted anyone at last year's Nationals is a major overstatement.

IMO, Caroline is blank-faced and displays little emotion. She is all business on the ice, working her way through her paces, and only when she spins is she exciting.

I agree on both counts. :agree:

 

[silverlake22]

On the whole I find Alissa to be an expressive skater who like Jeremy does not always emote as much to the audience but definitely shows expression to the music.

Yes, this was the kind of expressiveness I was talking about. Rachael is generally pretty expressive, but her LP from last season wasn't particularly well choreographed or suited to her, she made a good choice switching back to Romantic Rhapsody at worlds. To me last year at nationals, Alissa was very expressive in her SP, and less so in the LP, but still more expressive than Caroline and maybe Rachael too. Ashley had the best LP last year and was the most expressive of all the ladies, but where she messed up the short she couldn't really win overall.

Alissa at worlds though was definitely off her element. In the LP she landed most of her jumps but the expression was off and she was slow and looking at the ice. Even Alissa at her best can't compete with the expressiveness of Yuna and Joannie though.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

l he

The following skaters or teams will quaify for competing at the 2010 Olympics - (come hell or high water): The sub-committee wi.ll see to it

Evan Lysacek

Rachael Flatt

McLaughlin/Brubaker

Belbin/Agosto
Davis/White

All others must win the appropriate medal at the US Nats

 

[janetfan]

The following skaters or teams will quaify for competing at the 2010 Olympics - (come hell or high water): The sub-committee wi.ll see to it

Evan Lysacek

Rachael Flatt

McLaughlin/Brubaker

Belbin/Agosto
Davis/White

All others must win the appropriate medal at the US Nats

So you are saying if Rachael shows another inconsistent SP - and let's say Mirai comes out with her best SP of the year and Sasha is there and skates a good SP too and they are 1 and 2 after the SP.

Then we have Rachael win the LP but still finish third behind Mirai and Sasha.
What will the judges do? Bump Sasha - or maybe bump Mirai? Perhaps the 2nd place Lady will get bumped for a girl she just beat at Natls?

I will believe that when I see it. We could also use Ashley or Alissa in this scenario. Or Caroline but she would need to show a major improvement over her performance at SC.

Why exactly if Rachael is not consistent or good enough under pressure to medal at Natls would she be put on the team? I might remind you Rachael was selected for SA which practically assured her a GP medal - but had a fairly disappointing performance at COC and failed to make the GPF - even though US Skating did their best to help Rachael make the GPF.

If we see something like I described I fail to see how putting a skater who was beaten at Natls on the Olympic team ahead of a girl who beat her helps US Skating.

This would also put extra pressure on Rachael, or any other skater who might get a trip to Vancouver she failed to earn on the ice.

 

[chuckm]

Rachael has always handled Nationals pressure very well: she won silver at the last two Nationals and skated two good programs at both. Her CoC performance was an off one for Rachael, but then she hadn't spent the entire summer working on her programs: she was in summer school taking extra courses to ease her Senior school schedule for the Olympic season.

Ashley and Alissa both succumbed to the pressure last year: Ashley in the SP and Alissa in the FS.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Even Alissa at her best can't compete with the expressiveness of Yuna and Joannie though.

Joannie is not that expressive in her face. It pretty much always remains the same.

 

[janetfan]

Rachael has always handled Nationals pressure very well: she won silver at the last two Nationals and skated two good programs at both. Her CoC performance was an off one for Rachael, but then she hadn't spent the entire summer working on her programs: she was in summer school taking extra courses to ease her Senior school schedule for the Olympic season.

Ashley and Alissa both succumbed to the pressure last year: Ashley in the SP and Alissa in the FS.

So you think because Rachael went to summer school she should be given special consideration by US Skating?

I think Rachael will probably win or place second at Natls and if she does she will be put on the Olympic team.

I don't think the fact that two years ago Rachael came in 2nd behind Mirai at Natls is a reason to give Rachael a favor in 2010.

I fully expect the Gold and Silver medalists to be named to the Olympic team. Whichever two Ladies handle the pressure and earn it on the ice - do not deserve a backroom deal to accomplish what their competitiors couldn't do on the ice.

"On the ice" is big with me because that is what will happen in Vancouver.
There will be no favors or second chances or consideration of summer school in Vancouver.

I don't expect any favors at Natls either. Just competition like any other sport.

Let them skate for it and good luck to them all.

 

[R.D.]

Ashley and Alissa both succumbed to the pressure last year: Ashley in the SP and Alissa in the FS.

I'm not sure it was pressure so much that did Wagner in last year as it was just being too anxious and wanting it too bad. I think she even hinted that that was the case IIRC. I don't remember her really lighting it up last GP anyway...

This year the stakes are much higher and the pressure will be on, since she remains the only lady that qualified for the GPF. That said, most of it will be on Czisny (as the reigning champ), and Cohen IF she shows up (people are expecting her to "save" the US ladies at Olys). We'll see if Ashley can use this to her advantage (like she said in a previous interview). But she hasn't really been tested under pressure- but even without it she's lacking consistency and that's reason enough to be worrisome. Even if one doesn't enjoy the skating of Rachel Flatt one has to hand it to her for really hanging in there and getting the job done. But no one is immune to Olympic nerves, that's for sure.

 

[chuckm]

So you think because Rachael went to summer school she should be given special consideration by US Skating?

No, I don't. You are SO fond of taking my words and twisting them to mean something that was never intended.

My point was that Rachael didn't devote her entire summer to skating like most of the other ladies, so she wasn't quite in top competition shape for Cup of China. And that's OK, because it isn't the best thing to peak early in the season and then flag later. It isn't as if she bombed at CoC, either---she was 4th, and scored close to what Czisny did at HER first GP. At Skate America, Rachael skated a clean SP, earned a PB with her FS score and is #5 on the ISU Seasons Best score list.

OTOH, Czisny skated in several summer comps and got outrageously high scores. Then she won Nebelhorn (scoring only 91.02 in the FS) against a group of ladies who were clearly not quite ready for competition themselves. Alissa barely cracked 100 in both her GP free skates.

Where Rachael improved her performances from one competition to the next, Alissa improved only her SP but had multiple URs in her FS.

I don't think the fact that two years ago Rachael came in 2nd behind Mirai at Natls is a reason to give Rachael a favor in 2010.

Again, word twisting. My point was that Rachael handles pressure VERY well, not that past performance at one Nationals should have an effect on future Nationals. BTW, Mirai had no expectations going into her first Senior Nationals in 2008, while Rachael (who'd finished 5th as a Senior in 2007) probably was aiming for the podium in 2008, so the pressure was higher on Rachael. In 2009, Mirai, as defending champion, succumbed to pressure while Rachael did not. Rachael handled the pressure of her first Worlds just fine, finishing 5th. Alissa was 16th at her first Worlds and 11th at her second.

I fully expect the Gold and Silver medalists to be named to the Olympic team. Whichever two Ladies handle the pressure and earn it on the ice - do not deserve a backroom deal to accomplish what their competitiors couldn't do on the ice.....There will be no favors or second chances or consideration of summer school in Vancouver.

Rachael has never earned anything through a "backroom deal", and once again, you have twisted my words to mean something not intended. OTOH, there were many who felt that Alissa's US Championship owed much to off-ice dealings.

As we saw at Worlds 2009, it's what happens on Nationals ice that prefigures what happens at the big competitions. Rachael has been the steady competitor. Alissa has not.

You have a very bad habit of deliberately misinterpreting and miscontruing my words to suit your own prejudices.

 

[R.D.]

But Nationals should be its OWN competition. Every skater should come in with the slate wiped clean, and say, skate for it.