Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[jaylee]

Since much of this discussion revolves around the age of the skater, I thought I would link to and quote from an ISU ruling for a different skater and different situation related to the breaking of anti-doping rules that is relevant in how it sheds light on how doping rules/tests should be dealt with an underage skater.

At the age of 13, Yelim Kim (yes, the Yelim Kim who is competing at these Olympic games), competed at a 2016 Junior Grand Prix event. After the competition, she had gone back to the hotel. She did not know that she had been selected for anti-doping tests and that it was her responsibility to stay at the rink until the selection was complete. She returned, took the test, and tested negative.

The ISU filed a complaint against her: https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/legal/disciplinary-decisions/538-case-2016-03-ms-yelim-kim/file

The Alleged Offender being a minor of the age of 13, the Panel, with no representation from the Alleged Offender, voluntarily exanimated whether Anti-Doping Rules are applicable to minors in general and to this case in particular. The Panel observes that the rules contained in the ISU Anti-Doping Rules do not specifically deal with the issue of age. The Panel is nevertheless of the view that, in order for an athlete to be bound to anti-doping rules, the issue of age is in principle of no relevance. Accordingly, the fact that the Alleged Offender was very young at the time of the anti-doping control (13 years old) is in this respect irrelevant. If a young athlete enrolls to compete in organized sport she must do it in accordance with the rules of the game, including the rules whose violation entails disciplinary consequences. This is especially appropriate in figure skating, where athletes tend to emerge onto the international scene at ever younger ages. After all, subjection to rules and to sanctions is not unknown to minors. For instance, when minors are in school, they must comply with school rules and be prepared to undergo disciplinary consequences – even harsh ones, such as the expulsion from the school or the repetition of the same school year – if they don’t. If a young athlete is deemed by his parents mature enough to participate in an international event, she must be deemed mature enough to understand the applicable anti-doping rules.

I recommend reading the whole document, it's not that long. Yelim Kim received a reprimand for this incident--but could've been suspended for up to a year. The incident is not identical and certainly not proportionate to the one being discussed, but the ISU should be consistent in how it deals with the issue of age.

 

[Magill]

It will be interesting to see how the IOC handles this . Their problems began with the leak of this information to the media .Now that the information about the alleged violation is out in the public domain , the IOC will need to expeditiously deal with the matter before it starts to fester and irredeemably damage the reputation of the event.
They will also need to be very definitive with their explanation of any sanction or lack thereof.If the event does goes on as normal and they don't provide a cast iron reasoning behind their decision other national organizations and the media will apply significant pressure and their is a risk of the whole event descending into a farce.

Well, actually the "minor's privacy" wall allows them not to disclose any information. In fact, how do we know that they have not decided that a total acquittal or a simple warning would be the most appropriate response to the case? In fact, Kamila might have already received an acquittal / a warning and have been cleared otherwise, and the case might be actually over and closed by now, except for the mandatory time to allow for potential appeals,...
From what I understand from the Russian media outlets online, they claim that she was, in fact, temporarily suspended yersterday and that's why she did not attend her practices, but then the suspension was lifted and everything went back to business as usual... my Russian is by no means perfect but it seems to me this is what they say there in Russia, someone speaking fluent Russian, correct me, please, if I got it wrong... It might be their wishful thinking, of course, but maybe not...
What a mess...

 

[alexocfp]

Not everyone here is American, and can you and other pro Russian user's chill before this thread gets shut down? No one has really said anything insulting, there's no need to be combative and ultra nationalistic here. If you disagree with this being discussed at all, then take that up with the mods.

I don’t have an issue with it being discussed.

I don’t root for counties so this has nothing to do with nationality. I’m not Russian, I’m an American.

As a sports fan, I prefer to watch athletes be great than worry about some bureaucrats that watch people pee in cups for a living and stalk people that are on vacation.

People take these anti doping hacks way too seriously and base opinions based on what they say.

Lance Armstrong, for instance, is the greatest Tour De France competitor ever. Don’t care what some pseudo agency thinks.

 

[Decoder]

I didn't see that anyone mentioned this so just my cents:
Actually, the reason behind can be just an error. Either just human error, even most qualified professionals can make mistakes.
Or error due to not enough qualifications. Or for whatever reason and then fear and attempt to hide it.

For some reason most people assume that ALL doctors that can give something to Kamilla are all very high qualified professionals with state of the art knowledge who never made mistakes and always have full knowledge of what they are doing. Or having courage to confirm mistakes if they find it.

I think nothing is true. Neither qualifications, no courage.

Interesting point.

A related one: somehow I got the impression that RusFeds (or even in general many government) officers are very sloppy in dealing with paperwork. This time when the news came out, I read somewhere saying a coach asked the team members to be more careful with their "medical passport" (I am sure it's another name but don't remember). So maybe this incident has something to do with paperwork?

 

[mrrice]

Given the depth in Russia, they could have sent whomever they wanted, especially Maya or Liza instead. A lot of ladies there do have proper 3-3s.

I completely agree with this comment. Especially when it comes to Liza. Why take this huge risk when you have a skater like Tuk in the palm of your hand.

 

[Amei]

Well, actually the "minor's privacy" wall allows them not to disclose any information. In fact, how do we know that they have not decided that a total acquittal or a simple warning would be the most appropriate response to the case? In fact, Kamila might have already received an acquittal / a warning and have been cleared otherwise, and the case might be actually over and closed by now, except for the mandatory time to allow for potential appeals,...
From what I understand from the Russian media outlets online, they claim that she was, in fact, temporarily suspended yersterday and that's why she did not attend her practices, but then the suspension was lifted and everything went back to business as usual... my Russian is by no means perfect but it seems to me this is what they say there in Russia, someone speaking fluent Russian, correct me, please, if I got it wrong... It might be their wishful thinking, of course, but maybe not...
What a mess...

I think her identity is all that's protected i don't know if her punishment is protected and if the matter was resolved there would be something said about the team medal ceremony.

 

[mrrice]

Not everyone here is American, and can you and other pro Russian user's chill before this thread gets shut down? No one has really said anything insulting, there's no need to be combative and ultra nationalistic here. If you disagree with this being discussed at all, then take that up with the mods.

I'd also add that the people I chat with on this site are pro skating. We appreciate great skating no matter where a skater may be from. We have our favorites but, we all love skating and this unfortunate incident will not change that.

 

[Magill]

I think her identity is all that's protected i don't know if her punishment is protected and if the matter was resolved there would be something said about the team medal ceremony.

As far as I understand, they claim the decision was made and they just wait for potential appeals whch would have to be considered by CAS (Court of Arbitartion for Sport).
But I have no idea if that is true or not...

 

[4everchan]

this is not about bureaucracy... it's about the sport. Forget even about politics though it's difficult considering the precedents with ROC.

How do you think the world is looking at the sport now ?? : you wanna be great, you need to take these drugs...

this is exactly WHY concrete action needs to be taken, otherwise it is sending the message that it is accepted and acceptable.

If I were a parent, I would not want my child to be an elite athlete if it means that they will need to take drugs or if it means that they will compete with people who have an unfair medical advantage. And please, let me remain suspicious about the idea that a 15 year old elite athlete needs any kind of angina medication...

 

[Giu]

Just give her a warning, let her compete and let’s put this overreaction behind us. Playing politics with an innocent girl’s life. Shameful.

Always love our USA media members crawling out of the woodwork in situations like this, preaching with their holier than thou nonsense, fake outrage and outright lies.

Sorry, but if her positivity will be confirmed you can't simply give her a warning and let her compete! She would have an advantage over the other girls and that is not fair! Even if she's a minor and she wasn't aware! I'm sorry because in this case she will pay for her coaches but the other athletes cannot suffer the consequences of the actions of others. Not to mention that this would lead to emulations.

The fact that there are people okay with letting her compete is disappointing and makes me lose faith in mankind.

 

[el henry]

I'd also add that the people I chat with on this site are pro skating. We appreciate great skating no matter where a skate may be from. We have our favorites but, we all love skating and this unfortunate incident will not change that.

And Mr Rice, with his beloved Russian skating "wife", can testify to that more than most.

Skating fans may care who is skating or not. I will tell you that no one in America, before two days ago, who was not already a skating fan knew the name Kamila Valieva. So many people who know I'm a fan have texted me, who is this skater? Is she any good? What do you know about her?

So sad that this is how they learn the name

 

[alexocfp]

Sorry, but if her positivity will be confirmed you can't simply give her a warning and let her compete! She would have an advantage over the other girls and that is not fair! Even if she's a minor and she wasn't aware! I'm sorry because in this case she will pay for her coaches but the other athletes cannot suffer the consequences of the actions of others. Not to mention that this would lead to emulations.

Kamila has an advantage and that advantage is that she is flat out better than her competitors. It’s that simple.

You can drug up all her competitors to high heaven and it won’t miraculously make them jump quads. That happens through hard work, good genetics and good coaching.

That’s the thing about these doping stories. People start to believe that drugs make an athlete.

You can pump me full of any drugs but I’ll never be a top athlete.

This is not addressed to Kamila, because she did nothing wrong, but to the general adult athlete: We like watching professional sports (at least I do), and watch people do amazing things. In some sports, it can’t be possible to be 100% all the time because they are still human bodies. So, I have no problem looking the other way when athletes take steps to maintain their excellence.

If we want to watch amateurs doing this, that’s one thing, but if you want to watch footballers running for 90 minutes, or tennis players at 35 having more stamina than they did at 20, or cyclists pedaling well for 3 weeks straight, then we have to let them do what they have to do.

Sorry, but I am not against drugs in pro sports. Not will I condemn such athletes.

 

[Magill]

And Mr Rice, with his beloved Russian skating "wife", can testify to that more than most.

Skating fans may care who is skating or not. I will tell you that no one in America, before two days ago, who was not already a skating fan knew the name Kamila Valieva. So many people who know I'm a fan have texted me, who is this skater? Is she any good? What do you know about her?

So sad that this is how they learn the name

Yeah., one day she is all over the media as this "sensational 15 y.o. gold medalist from Russia", the very next day she becomes the face of a doping scandal...
What a timing...

 

[Fanof]

Lance Armstrong, for instance, is the greatest Tour De France competitor ever. Don’t care what some pseudo agency thinks.

Let me disagree . He was the greatest doped Tour de France competitor ever, among a slew of doped competitors.
Perhaps some cyclists were not doped. But who knows and who remembers their names since they were overshadowed by a cheater?
Anyway, it's a little bit off topic.
In fact, either you say: "let the show begin". Doesn't matter whether anyone is doped, provided there are quads and transitions and so on.
Or you think the competition may be very interesting even if there are only triples, provided there is a healthy rivalry (I don't know how old you are but for instance why do we still remember the battle of Carmens? because there was a battle, not because there were (some double) jumps).
As far as I am concerned, as soon as you say that doping is not permitted (which is only a choice), you have to disqualify any cheater, even the youngest, not because (s)he is guilty, but because the next competitor is not doped (or is deemed to be clean until proven doped as well).
We'll see...

 

[el henry]

Kamila has an advantage and that advantage is that she is flat out better than her competitors. It’s that simple.

You can drug up all her competitors to high heaven and it won’t miraculously make them jump quads. That happens through hard work, good genetics and good coaching.

That’s the thing about these doping stories. People start to believe that drugs make an athlete.

You can pump me full of any drugs but I’ll never be a top athlete.

This is not addressed to Kamila, because she did nothing wrong, but to the general adult athlete: We like watching professional sports (at least I do), and watch people do amazing things. In some sports, it can’t be possible to be 100% all the time because they are still human bodies. So, I have no problem looking the other way when athletes take steps to maintain their excellence.

If we want to watch amateurs doing this, that’s one thing, but if you want to watch footballers running for 90 minutes, or tennis players at 35 having more stamina than they did at 20, or cyclists pedaling well for 3 weeks straight, then we have to let them do what they have to do.

Sorry, but I am not against drugs in pro sports. Not will I condemn such athletes.

You may not be. But that's not the point. The fact remains that certain substances are banned by governing bodies.

Every competitor is subject to the same restrictions on banned medication. It doesn't matter if orange juice and apple pie are banned. If they are banned, and I am a serious athlete, I do not drink orange juice and I do not eat apple pie.

I have no idea what happened or did not, but it is the very essence of sport that everyone abides by the same rules. Last place finishers and gold medalists. Whether or not they agree with them.

 

[Amei]

Kamila has an advantage and that advantage is that she is flat out better than her competitors. It’s that simple.

You can drug up all her competitors to high heaven and it won’t miraculously make them jump quads. That happens through hard work, good genetics and good coaching.

That’s the thing about these doping stories. People start to believe that drugs make an athlete.

You can pump me full of any drugs but I’ll never be a top athlete.

This is not addressed to Kamila, because she did nothing wrong, but to the general adult athlete: We like watching professional sports (at least I do), and watch people do amazing things. In some sports, it can’t be possible to be 100% all the time because they are still human bodies. So, I have no problem looking the other way when athletes take steps to maintain their excellence.

If we want to watch amateurs doing this, that’s one thing, but if you want to watch footballers running for 90 minutes, or tennis players at 35 having more stamina than they did at 20, or cyclists pedaling well for 3 weeks straight, then we have to let them do what they have to do.

Sorry, but I am not against drugs in pro sports. Not will I condemn such athletes.

That may make her alleged doping even worse, but regardless of whether she is naturally more talented, a positive doping test for a banned substance should make her ineligible to compete.

 

[bigsisjiejie]

If there were a similar report about an American figure skater - I doubt it would spark a discussion about exactly how he should be punished. And this certainly would not have caused arguments that the entire American team should be immediately kicked out of the Olympics (and such proposals regarding Russia have already appeared in the media, and even here). This would not have prompted claims that WADA is paying the price for not punishing the US enough in the past.

If this controversy was about an American figure skater or ANY other country than a Russian (or Chinese) skater, there is no question in my mind that a quick decision would have been made by the IOC to disqualify and ban them from competition, whether adult or Protected Athlete. And in the case of a US skater, the USOC would have gone along with it, without a fuss.

Russia has been treated with kid gloves by the IOC since even before Sochi, and continues to this day. That's the only reason that we have had this kind of delay. Everyone's working overtime to get Russia off the hook as much as possible. Much of the rest of the world took the position that the STATE-SPONSORED DOPING that Russia did, should have earned the entire Russian athlete contingent a boot out of Olympics for the next 8-10 years.

The IOC is indeed reaping what it has sown.

 

[el henry]

Yeah., one day she is all over the media as this "sensational 15 y.o. gold medalist from Russia", the very next day she becomes the face of a doping scandal...
What a timing...

I understand, but I think I am saying something different. On Sunday, I would have given you $1000 if you walked up and down the streets of Bethlehem, PA to find anyone who knew the name Kamila Valieva. I would have kept my $1000. By the time of the ladies' comp, maybe you might have found someone, but not before then.

This news is all that anyone knows about her now.

 

[msteach3]

Kamila has an advantage and that advantage is that she is flat out better than her competitors. It’s that simple.

You can drug up all her competitors to high heaven and it won’t miraculously make them jump quads. That happens through hard work, good genetics and good coaching.

That’s the thing about these doping stories. People start to believe that drugs make an athlete.

You can pump me full of any drugs but I’ll never be a top athlete.

This is not addressed to Kamila, because she did nothing wrong, but to the general adult athlete: We like watching professional sports (at least I do), and watch people do amazing things. In some sports, it can’t be possible to be 100% all the time because they are still human bodies. So, I have no problem looking the other way when athletes take steps to maintain their excellence.

If we want to watch amateurs doing this, that’s one thing, but if you want to watch footballers running for 90 minutes, or tennis players at 35 having more stamina than they did at 20, or cyclists pedaling well for 3 weeks straight, then we have to let them do what they have to do.

Sorry, but I am not against drugs in pro sports. Not will I condemn such athletes.

Whatever your opinion happens to be, rules are rules, and you are not in a position to make them. This has nothing to do with Kamila's talent or her dedication to hard work. This has to do with someone giving her a drug banned for athletes, and her getting caught with it in her system.

I love Kamila and hope this is all a terrible mistake, but if it is not, she then becomes a victim of the adults around her, and this would be a horrible, horrible shame.

 

[Magill]

I understand, but I think I am saying something different. On Sunday, I would have given you $1000 if you walked up and down the streets of Bethlehem, PA to find anyone who knew the name Kamila Valieva. I would have kept my $1000. By the time of the ladies' comp, maybe you might have found someone, but not before then.

This news is all that anyone knows about her now.

But I think I am saying more or less the same thing, too. If she had not been that sensational in the team event a day earlier, her alleged involvement in the doping scandal would not get the same media coverage it did. Still, the doping scandal is probably more interesting piece of news for most of the public so this is how they get to know her now, sadly