Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[zanadude]

Before Russians complain too loudly over the inability of Sweden to test promptly, they should first reflect on the reasons why the test couldn't have been done within their own country.

 

[Magill]

Well, it's politics after all, and i'm not sure i can talk about it. But if they have a problem with someone around here, i think it would be a country she represents, not her coaching team. Because her coaching team already have a lot of recognitions by the multiple organizations and skating community and ISU itself.

But it is her country that is running this investigation in question. That's why I doubt their dedication to finding out the truth. I'd rather expect them to do whatever they can to find nothing. Partly because of the awards you mentioned.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

1. Your personal belief is not, and should not, influence whatever system is set up for evaluation. If the system says, you test positive and you are out until otherwise proven, that is the system.

And we should accept the system, just because the system tells us what is right? If it is easier to you to believe in the system and not to the real people, thats you, not me. We are just different.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

But it is her country that is running this investigation in question. That's why I doubt their dedication to finding out the truth. I'd rather expect them to do whatever they can to find nothing. Partly because of the awards you mentioned.

It is RUSSADA who listened to her case because they were the one to charge her in first place, and after her testimony they realized that she is not guilty, simple as that. Now the other organizations made an appeal against it because they didn't hear what RUSSADA heard. But what RUSSADA heard from Kamila can be a legit after all, and after they hear her case those other organizations can agree with it (or not).

 

[zanadude]

And we should accept that system, just because the system tells us what is right?

No, you should not. Russia should set up its own competitions under their own rules, and invite other like-minded nations to show us all how things should be done.

Americans have even provided you a template for doing this.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[NanaPat]

Calalang / Johnson were banned from competing at Worlds 2021, and the banned substance turned out to be in her eyelash serum. She was cleared 8 months later. By the same token, Kamila should be excluded from the Olympic Women's competition pending final disposition of the matter.

Yes. Excellent point. It took 8 months to track down the source of the contamination. I could have taken longer if there hadn't been an earlier case involving the same substance. Jessica was banned from competition (and I believe from receiving funds from USFS) in the meantime.

But in Russia it only takes one day to say "well, it could have been contamination" and voila, case over, all good, carry on, nothing to see here.

 

[TontoK]

But it is her country that is running this investigation in question. That's why I doubt their dedication to finding out the truth. I'd rather expect them to do whatever they can to find nothing. Partly because of the awards you mentioned.

I'm not quite so sure about that. This episode has led me to read some Russian sports media with more attention than I have in the past. There is a slight, but ongoing, shift in the perspectives of the articles and of the general public who comment on those articles.

Initally, it was like the five stages of grief. Denial, anger, bargaining, and so forth. But I believe a general sense of acceptance is slowly settling in, and some Russian journalists and fans are now genuinely seeking answers. The "dastardly West is conspiring to destroy our girl" storyline is no longer getting the traction it did a few days ago.

Now, it's more of "a child was drugged, and we want to know who did it. And then we're going to make them pay."

 

[McBibus]

That thought crossed my mind too.

I do agree.
If it will be an internal russian affair the result will be Kamila burnt on the stake and the smoke used to cover the big names and let the system run like nothing ever happened.

It would be the same in many countries: the only thing that could change the outcome is the Fed or the Olympic commitee needing more blood to get away with limited damage.
Cynical? Yes, but most probaly a lot less that the people running the show

 

[Magill]

I'm not quite so sure about that. This episode has led me to read some Russian sports media with more attention than I have in the past. There is a slight, but ongoing, shift in the perspectives of the articles and of the general public who comment on those articles.

Initally, it was like the five stages of grief. Denial, anger, bargaining, and so forth. But I believe a general sense of acceptance is slowly settling in, and some Russian journalists and fans are now genuinely seeking answers. The "dastardly West is conspiring to destroy our girl" storyline is no longer getting the traction it did a few days ago.

Now, it's more of "a child was drugged, and we want to know who did it. And then we're going to make them pay."

Well, I would like you to be right and myself to be wrong. But atm I doubt it. We'll see.

 

[el henry]

And we should accept that system, just because the system tells us what is right? If it is easier to you to believe in the system and not to the real people, thats you, not me. We are just different.

If you do not like the system, do not compete under it. After person has chosen to compete under the system and signed the documents saying they'll abide by it, they don't get out of abiding by the rules by going "Oh, system so bad"

I do not believe that is a sign of independence, but rather an after the fact excuse.

The matter should be dealt with within the guidelines and rules currently set up.

 

[silveruskate]

Valieva is a minor so the threshold for fault or negligence is already lower. Does she have a responsibility to check the drugs that were given to her? Unless she acquired the drug herself with her family in a shady way, if she was given the drug by the National Team doctor and didn't know then I don't see how she would have any Fault or Negligence.

Regardless of being concerned about how the rules apply differently to adults and children, the way things stand now with the law is it within the rules to ban her in that scenario? I don't know of any instance for an athlete being banned when they have no Fault or Negligence themselves.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

If you do not like the system, do not compete under it. After person has chosen to compete under the system and signed the documents saying they'll abide by it, they don't get out of abiding by the rules by going "Oh, system so bad"

I do not believe that is a sign of independence, but rather an after the fact excuse.

The matter should be dealt with within the guidelines and rules currently set up.

In every system, there are exceptions of the rules. That was my point. Mine and Jessica Callalang's. And yes, based on her case and this case where the results were late like a month, where they didn't actually care about a person, whoever that person is, my conclusion is - the system is bad

 

[Alex Fedorov]

It is RUSSADA who listened to her case because they were the one to charge her in first place, and after her testimony they realized that she is not guilty, simple as that. Now the other organizations made an appeal against it because they didn't hear what RUSSADA heard. But what RUSSADA heard from Kamila can be a legit after all, and after they hear her case those other organizations can agree with it (or not).

the worst option is if Kamila simply does not know how the drug could get to her. That is, she does not just say that she does not know, but really does not know. Then it will be a complete analogue of the case with the curler Krushelnitsky at the last Olympics. He said at the time that he did not understand how meldonium could have ended up in his system. And this seems to be true, because such drugs cannot help curling in any way. It's almost like a chess player taking anabolic steroids.

But precisely because Krushelnitsky never found the source of his problem, he was disqualified for four years. In the case of Kamila, everything is going in the same direction so far.

 

[zanadude]

Hopefully one good thing that will come of all this is a full reevaluation of the handling of minors in professional sports.

 

[gravy]

Valieva is a minor so the threshold for fault or negligence is already lower. Does she have a responsibility to check the drugs that were given to her? Unless she acquired the drug herself with her family in a shady way, if she was given the drug by the National Team doctor and didn't know then I don't see how she would have any Fault or Negligence.

Regardless of being concerned about how the rules apply differently to adults and children, the way things stand now with the law is it within the rules to ban her in that scenario? I don't know of any instance for an athlete being banned when they have no Fault or Negligence themselves.

Andreea Raducan, age 16, was the Olympic All-Around champion in 2000 until she was stripped of the title for testing positive for pseudoephedrine (Sudafed, cold medicine). She was explicitly given the medication by her team doctor and Andreea was found to not be at fault by the IOC but her gold medal was still taken away because regardless of whether or not she knew what she was taking, the banned drug was still found in her system. Banned drug in system = considered doping, whether active of passive.

I'm hopeful they will do the same for Kamila and hope they launch an investigation of the Sambo 70 coaches. I feel bad for Kamila but it *is* an advantage and it would be a complete farce to let her compete KNOWING and having EVIDENCE that she was given PEDs.

 

[bekalc]

I'm not quite so sure about that. This episode has led me to read some Russian sports media with more attention than I have in the past. There is a slight, but ongoing, shift in the perspectives of the articles and of the general public who comment on those articles.

Initally, it was like the five stages of grief. Denial, anger, bargaining, and so forth. But I believe a general sense of acceptance is slowly settling in, and some Russian journalists and fans are now genuinely seeking answers. The "dastardly West is conspiring to destroy our girl" storyline is no longer getting the traction it did a few days ago.

Now, it's more of "a child was drugged, and we want to know who did it. And then we're going to make them pay."

I am glad to hear this.

 

[starlight97]

The German news coverage really focuses on the Team doctor, revealing, as others have mentioned, that he already has several doping violation incidences under his belt and that he was, for example, the doctor that doped Bobrova.
So he should be going down for sure. What I wonder now is if Sambo70 can somehow spin this story in a way that they "didn't know" or just "naively followed his professional advice", Martha Karolyi-style.

 

[Artistry]

This is an illuminating article on training methods, and difference between East vs West.

Kamila Valieva failed her drug test. Blame her coaches.

Russian skater Kamila Valieva is a minor. The adults in her life should be held responsible.

www.vox.com

 

[iceskater10]

Well, it's politics after all, and i'm not sure i can talk about it. But if they have a problem with someone around here, i think it would be a country she represents, not her coaching team. Because her coaching team already have a lot of recognitions by the multiple organizations and skating community and ISU itself.

And lots of allegations about doping in the past

 

[whatif]

Wether she knew or not, irrelevant. Valieva needs to be removed immediately from the competition. I don't care how it got into her system, it was found. That's it. Full stop.