Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[anonymoose_au]

Here it is, I actually did see it and didn't even notice. Look at the top of the image.

It's a re-post so she didn't create it herself, but the fact she posted it speaks volumes about her opinion

 

[WeakAnkles]

In addition to Sochi 2014, can you name the others please.

Google it yourself.

 

[readernick]

Most of us are still very compassionate about Valieva. She's a child caught up in situation where she was likely given a substance without her consent ( or with her consent but in an environment where everyone does the same thing so it seems normal) who has been used and is still being used by the adults around her. I would never expect her to voluntarily withdrawal. She's a kid and this was suppose to be the most important week of her life. It wouldn't even occur to her and the adults surrounding her only care about themselves.

For all that compassion, right is right, wrong is wrong. Rules are rules and should be enforced equally for everyone.

 

[prorussian fan]

View attachment 4969
Here it is, I actually did see it and didn't even notice. Look at the top of the image.

Excuse me, how did you attach the image?

 

[anonymoose_au]

Excuse me, how did you attach the image?

When you press comment there should be a box underneath the text field that says "Attach files" it has a paperclip next to it.

 

[froo]

She posted the start list for the women's SP, along with a notation that says something like "Good luck to everyone except (insert pill and injection emoji)"

Thank you so much!!

Wasn’t she the skater who spoke out about possible shady stuff re possible doping for Russian or Tutberidze skaters a couple years ago on social media and they tried to bury it with damage control, and then she left to skate for another country? Or maybe that was another skater. I tried to search for it but all Kamila results come up now in the first few pages.

(Also, don’t see how this comment is “cruel”… ‍Its not far-fetched to assume in this context those emojis refer to doping… makes sense an athlete would wish good luck to all except those who may have been doping. Kamila is being protected enough. We don’t need to also police, condemn and try to restrict the self expression of other athletes who have been thrown into the situation, no choice of their own. Maybe Kamila didn’t choose this either but at least she may have benefited from it somewhat. Everyone else and the whole sport is in the mess with no benefits. People are entitled to have feelings and reactions to the situation. After all they too have dedicated their whole lives to the sport. Just because they’re over 16 doesn’t mean they don’t matter! )

 

[Amei]

View attachment 4969
Here it is, I actually did see it and didn't even notice. Look at the top of the image.

It's a re-post so she didn't create it herself, but the fact she posted it speaks volumes about her opinion

I've seen several posts from current/former skaters, it doesn't seem like anyone outside of Russia or CAS is onboard with an athlete skating in the Olympics with an unresolved positive doping test.

 

[randomCanadian]

WARNING: This post is heavy on theory-crafting!



Without speculating on the horrible timing, the usefulness of trimetazidine, the response of rusada (lifting the suspension, really?), or the decision of CAS (wasn't expecting this, big surprise!).. I think the Russians will receive all "their" medals. The Russian team without Kamila will received their team medal, and Kamila will receive any individual medal that she will win later. If the final verdict on the merit of the case absolved Kamila, she will receive the team medal too.



AND... here's the logic:

The code: https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/2021_wada_code.pdf

According to article 10.10, Kamila, if found "guilty", will be disqualified for the period between Dec. 25th and Feb. 8th... INDIVIDUALLY. Section 10 is about sanctions on individuals.

Article 11.2 is about Consequence to Teams, and it start with "If more than two members of a team in a Team Sport are found to have committed an anti-doping rule violation during an Event Period...". It's about violation during an event, not violation prior to the event. So, the team shouldn't have consequences.

Article 11.3 is about Stricter Consequences for Team, under another organization authority. I've reviewed ITA/IOC rules and ISU rules, and found some additional "Consequences for Team" but they are all for violation "during the Period of the Olympic", "during a Competition" or "prior competition of the same Event"... nothing about a violation during a previous event.

https://ita.sport/resource/anti-doping-rules-for-the-olympic-winter-games-beijing-2022/ (page 31)
https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/isu-...-archives/352-1922-isu-anti-doping-rules/file (page 39)



Now, if Kamila is ultimately found "guilty"... back to the anti doping code (wada), 10.13... they say when the ban should start: the period of Ineligibility shall start on the date of the final hearing decision providing for Ineligibility. The ban should start in a few month. Not retroactively to Feb. 9th.

If... the provisional suspension has been lifted, and... if the period of ineligibility (ban) hasn't started... on what ground would they withheld medals won today or the 17th?



I sure hope rusada had a damn good reason to lift the provisional suspension... everything else fall apart without it.

 

[Amei]

Tara and Johnny's reaction, I have to admit I think these 2 have a good assessment here. And while I don't think they bullied Valieva, they also didn't absolve her of guilt in this situation, they both talked through their own experience pointed out that at a young age they had to be aware of what they were putting in their bodies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU9KpsLYsSg&list=WL&index=1&t=469s

 

[moonkat]

I'm still crossing my fingers for the news to pop up anytime that Kami pulls out of the event in support of Sasha and Anna. In addition, I don't know how she will stand going out on the track with the looks of hatred and contempt from everyone when she was not to blame nor did she know her adverse result or the decision of CAS. If she decided to retire and in the future is cleared of any doping charges, she would still keep her gold medal from the team event and be called Olympic champion (like Yulia Lipnistkaya).

No, she's not allowed to pull out. Anything negative about Kamila is taken as a personal offense by others. This isn't just about Kamila. Now negative opinions will be targeted.

I believe in the results of the test per Sample A. The actions by all parties leading up to this decision will forever lead me to doubt Sample B's result if it is found to be "negative".

 

[Tavi...]

Is she is a seasoned litigator I doubt she needs your passive aggressive defence on a figure skating forum.

Pointing out the difference between theft and illegal consumption was done to defend my previous argument and contribute to the critical discussion of the matter (that's how forums usually work) and not give a criminal law lecture to el Henry or any other member.

Thank you for your thoughts.

To answer the question you posed previously: the reason why “establishing intentions, motive and causation is fundamental in any criminal trial” but is being “disregarded now” is because this is an administrative complaint, not a criminal investigation or trial, and those elements don’t need to be proven. The panel was only considering a narrow procedural issue: did Rusada properly lift the provisional suspension, or not? The issues you raise may be relevant during an investigation into whether sanctions are appropriate but aren’t relevant here.

 

[Joe Mendoza]

it is a very complicated situation

not really.

I sure hope rusada had a damn good reason to lift the provisional suspension... everything else fall apart without it.

it will be a great reason - as great as the grandfather's glass excuse, at which point - a very long time has passed that nobody would have had had the energy or attention span to care until 4 years from now, unfortunately.

 

[readernick]

No, she's not allowed to pull out. Anything negative about Kamila is taken as a personal offense by others. This isn't just about Kamila. Now negative opinions will be targeted.

I believe in the results of the test per Sample A. The actions by all parties leading up to this decision will forever lead me to doubt Sample B's result if it is found to be "negative".

Kamila isn't even disputing the positive test so I don't think anyone will try to contaminate the B sample. Instead she gave an excuse...a ridiculous excuse

The "I got it from my grandfather's water glass defense" is actually the only amusing part of this whole terrible situation. There are so many holes in that story ( even beyond the fact that that's not how drugs get into an individual's system) given the half-life of this drug is very short and she would have had to ingest the drug during Russian Nationals or very close to Russian Nationals for her test to come back positive but her grandfather lives in Kazan and given her schedule she likely doesn't visit bi-weekly. I think the way they can get around this is to claim that the Grandfather took a drink from the cup and then sent it to his granddaughter so she could also drink from it. They will claim its an ancient Tatar tradition and a way of wishing good luck to a family member. At which point millions of Tatars will become confused because they've never heard to this tradition- but the Russian government can certainly bribe or threaten a few Tatars into saying it's true. Ridiculous you say? Indeed it is... However, I feel it has a similar level of logic as the original story and the other things that have been suggested by some of the "slightly" biased posters who try to defend Valieva's team.

That or as several clever posters have already suggested Ted Barton did it.

 

[randomCanadian]

it will be a great reason - as great as the grandfather's glass excuse, at which point - a very long time has passed that nobody would have had had the energy or attention span to care until 4 years from now, unfortunately.

I wasn't aware of the grandfather's glass excuse. Rusada could still decide it was negligent to drink from that glass, but they wont!

Case closed, at least as far as the olympics go. The show must go on.

 

[prorussian fan]

No, she's not allowed to pull out. Anything negative about Kamila is taken as a personal offense by others. This isn't just about Kamila. Now negative opinions will be targeted.

I believe in the results of the test per Sample A. The actions by all parties leading up to this decision will forever lead me to doubt Sample B's result if it is found to be "negative".

Why couldn't she withdraw? She can argue a mental health issue like Simone Biles did in Tokyo.

 

[Greengemmonster]

Why couldn't she withdraw? She can argue a mental health issue like Simone Biles did in Tokyo.

I think it would require some epic backbone to withdraw. The country does not want her to withdraw. She would have to be someone willing to stir things up and upset the status quo. I don't think that's going to happen and we probably can't expect that of her.

Plus it seems like she's committing to the Grandpa excuse so no way is she going to remove herself.

 

[Mathman]

Why couldn't she withdraw? She can argue a mental health issue like Simone Biles did in Tokyo.

She wouldn't need an excuse at all. She could just say, "I am not going to skate." I don't think they would tie her up and throw her on the ice if she did.

On the other hand, if she knows in her heart that she is truly innocent, then she shpuild hold her head high, land three quadfs and a triple Axel, and set an new all-time record. Then she should gvie a news conference and say, "Put THAT in your pipe and smake it!"

 

[YuBluByMe]

That grandpa thing was just a joke, right? Making fun of all the wild impossible scenarios that we can concoct?

I think it’s a rumor. There was an awful lot of hear-say leading up to the hearing so I would take anything not in an official statement with a grain of salt.

If it turns out that that’s truly the story she’s going with then someone needs to put the damn shovel down. The grave is deep enough.

 

[Amei]

I think it’s a rumor. There was an awful lot of hear-say leading up to the hearing so I would take anything not in an official statement with a grain of salt.

If it turns out that that’s truly the story she’s going with then someone needs to put the damn shovel down. The grave is deep enough.

Rules of holes - stop digging

 

[matin calin]

To answer the question you posed previously: the reason why “establishing intentions, motive and causation is fundamental in any criminal trial” but is being “disregarded now”

I have explained in one of my earlier posts which I will quote down below, I was referring to the scope of discussion on the internet including this forum. Not the CAS trial.

Why is no one interested in questioning Eteri's (if we assume she's the mastermind) motives and intentions as well as other possible scenarios. Above everything else I think that the part about Eteri's motive in doping Kamila right in between the two doping tests is kind of... weak? And raises many questions?

I just feel that it is too simplistic to limit the debate to "the substance was in her system, I don't care about anything else, Valieva should be kicked out, period".

I did not mean the actual legal procedure, I am sure all matters will be taken care of appropriately in CAS or elsewhere.

I was talking about discussions here on GS, social media and so on. Just what regular people bring up in their discussions, as well skaters that now rush to take the stand to express their disgust with the Russian team. Why does no one question what pushed Eteri to give a banned substance with questionable efficacy to her best olympic bet shortly before the doping test? Why no one says, wait a second, why would they put so much at risk? Why would they mess up like this? Is this thing probable? Is that thing logical? Do they add up? You know, the usual critical discussion. I just don't see much of that.

I wonder what was discussed during those 7 hours, if her status as a protected person alone grants her this level of lenience the hearing would have hardly taken SO long? I think it is highly possible that some circumstances that led to the CAS ruling have not been released to us, yet.