Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups | Page 297 | Golden Skate

Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

This has been missed by everyone. I only noticed it re-watching it now.

30:20 Narrator - "Professor Rabin also pointed out that the level of trimetazidine was not consistent with her claim that the medication had been accidentally mixed in at home"

Senior Director, Science and Medicine Olivier Rabin - "...Provided by the athlete didn't match the urinary concentration that we found in her sample and there was a disconnection between the explanation and what we could find at the scientific level. So the story didn't match the scientific facts.

Except the Director-General of WADA Olivier Niggli (Rabin's boss) got personally involved in shutting down an experiment when the results showed that the level of TMZ in Valieva's body was consistent with her explanation.

This is frightening.
Okay yes, so I get what you’re saying, but there were other reasons cited for the verdict. All this is saying is the amount of TMZ found lines up with the grandpa theory. However, that doesn’t matter if the court has other reasons to say the whole theory isn’t true in the first place.
 
Okay yes, so I get what you’re saying, but there were other reasons cited for the verdict. All this is saying is the amount of TMZ found lines up with the grandpa theory. However, that doesn’t matter if the court has other reasons to say the whole theory isn’t true in the first place.

It would have been strong evidence, and CAS would have taken it into account. It could have meant a 6 month suspension or 1 year suspension instead of 4 years. Presumably this is why the Director-General personally got involved to shut it down immediately he was afraid of her getting a smaller sentence. CAS even said that Valieva was completely believable and honest in her testimony, so couple that with an experiment that lines up with her explanation, it would only help her.
 
The "beating a dead horse" emoji has been removed from the menu :(
Too bad. I would need it for every single thing I might say in this thread. But since I have no emoji [sigh]... I'll better retain from this discussion.
 
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Kamila Valieva's appeal to the Federal Court of Switzerland has been dismissed - https://www.bger.ch/ext/eurospider/...-4A_136-2024&lang=de&zoom=&type=show_document
The judgment was made 5th September, that information about the Director-General getting personally involved to shut down an experiment that might have exonerated her came to light on 11th September. So it just seems like more unfortunate timing for Kamila. That would have been helpful information. At the Olympics, had the result been returned 48 hours earlier after having the sample in their possession for over 40 days, her confidentiality would have been protected, ROC could have replaced her easily and won gold, all this would have been averted. So unlucky with these things :(
 
The judgment was made 5th September, that information about the Director-General getting personally involved to shut down an experiment that might have exonerated her came to light on 11th September. So it just seems like more unfortunate timing for Kamila. That would have been helpful information. At the Olympics, had the result been returned 48 hours earlier after having the sample in their possession for over 40 days, her confidentiality would have been protected, ROC could have replaced her easily and won gold, all this would have been averted. So unlucky with these things :(
It would not have exonerated her

Appeals can only be made on CAS procedural issues. The issue you believe would have overturned the decision does not involve CAS and its procedures. It is not applicable to her case in the Swiss court. They discuss that they can only look at procedural issues with CAS in the decision.
 
At the Olympics, had the result been returned 48 hours earlier after having the sample in their possession for over 40 days, her confidentiality would have been protected, ROC could have replaced her easily and won gold, all this would have been averted. So unlucky with these things :(
In the judgment, it it is clearly written (in French) that in the case that the doping infraction is proved to be unintentional, the protected athlete rule will apply BUT not if the doping infraction was not proved to be unintentional. They do not have to protect the athlete confidentiality. In this particular case, the judgment says that the athlete wasn't able to prove the unintentional nature of the infraction. Her hypothesis about the strawberry dessert was not conclusive. Therefore, her confidentiality was never guaranteed. You may not have known right at the games, though everyone would have had high suspicions, but it would/could have been revealed later because Kamila Valieva was not able to prove that the doping was unintentional, despite proposing 3 hypotheses. It's exactly because of that, that the sanction is 4 years and not less.
I invite you to do a google translate of the document @saine just posted. I am offering a free translation/summary here but if you want to read the sources and know the judgment word for word, it's all there, in French.
 
The AP article about this experiment is some incredibly shoddy journalism - to the point where I almost wonder if it's AI-generated...

First - they refer to the drug in question as temozolomide, which is a form of chemotherapy used to treat brain cancers. The actual drug is trimetazidine. Not a difficult mistake for a layperson to make - but very careless for a journalist, and calls into question whether this piece was appropriately researched and vetted.

Second - reading the article makes it pretty clear that the pull quote "we have to stop that urgently" is being taken out of context. The full text of Niggli's messages that appear in the body of the article are as follows:

"Gunter we have a big issue. How come we have Saugy doing an opinion for Valieva, super favorable to her. … If it is a RUSADA opinion, we should absolutely not be involved in anyway. … this is a big issue on our side to get involved in such an opinion that will be used in court. We have to stop that urgently.”

Note how Niggli states twice that WADA should not be "involved" - by which it stands to reason he is referring to the fact that, as mentioned in the AP article, WADA acted as an intermediary between RUSADA and Saugy:

"RUSADA followed the custom at the time and asked WADA to serve as an intermediary with Saugy. In this case, WADA connected the Russians with the well-respected scientist."

Reading the full text, doesn't it make more sense to interpret Niggli's messages as objecting to WADA's decision to solicit an opinion from Saugy, who represented the Russian sports ministry at Sochi 2014 where doping was known to have occurred, and who was the director of the lab that destroyed 67 samples from Russian athletes during London 2012, despite a directive from WADA not to do so? Certainly, someone who has been reasonably suspected of past wrongdoing in Russia's favor is not an ideal candidate to submit an opinion on behalf of a Russian athlete!

The article, however, subtly implies that the quote "we have to stop that urgently" was in response to the fact that the opinion was favorable to Kamila:

"When details from a scientific experiment that could have helped clear embattled Russian figure skater Kamila Valieva landed at the World Anti-Doping Agency, the leader of that organization’s reaction was unequivocal: 'We have to stop that urgently,' he wrote."

While Niggli's message did mention that the opinion was favorable to Kamila, look closely at the question he is asking: "How come we have Saugy doing an opinion," not "How come we have an opinion that is favorable to Valieva." I don't see any reasonable way to interpret these messages other than "we have to stop an opinion by a questionable source from being used in court."

Third - as many have already pointed out in this thread, whether contamination via cutting board was possible was not the material question of the case. The article itself even says as much:

"In this case, WADA connected the Russians with the well-respected scientist, who conducted an experiment to see whether traces of a cut-up tablet of the banned drug Temozolomide, known as TMZ, could cause a positive test. The answer, according to the people with knowledge of the case who spoke to AP: yes.

This would have fit with one of the defenses the Russians were using for Valieva: that her grandfather made a strawberry smoothie for her, possibly using the same cutting board or utensils he used to cut TMZ tablets for himself. Using this defense, if Valieva could prove her grandfather made the smoothie and she drank it within a certain time frame before her positive test, there was a chance she could’ve received a 'no-fault' positive due to contamination that would have resulted in a less-stringent sanction.

Sports’ highest court ultimately refused that defense, stating that while there were plausible scientific explanations for contamination, Valieva didn’t meet the burden of proving she drank a tainted smoothie within that time frame."


In other words - Valieva didn't need to prove that contamination via cutting board is possible; she needed to prove that the trimetazidine in her test was the result of contamination via cutting board.

Finally
- the results of Saugy's experiment would have no impact on the decision, because another expert witness was called by Kamila's team and testified to the same thing!

Here is part of the testimony of Prof. Pascal Kintz, from page 119 of the full CAS decision:

"The urine concentration of 2.1 ng/mL is, according to Prof. Kintz, consistent with contamination. As Prof. Kintz says, 'there is nothing in the scientific literature that prevents the scenario of contamination.'"

It makes no sense to argue that an expert opinion stating contamination was a possible cause would have changed the outcome of the proceedings in the least - because the proceedings already included an expert opinion stating contamination was a possible cause! Saugy's opinion was completely unnecessary - which is no doubt why both RUSADA and Kamila's team proceeded without referencing it.


This article strikes me as nothing more than clickbait - a pretty clumsy attempt at a "gotcha" to stir up the controversy again and generate views.
 
In the judgment, it it is clearly written (in French) that in the case that the doping infraction is proved to be unintentional, the protected athlete rule will apply BUT not if the doping infraction was not proved to be unintentional. They do not have to protect the athlete confidentiality. In this particular case, the judgment says that the athlete wasn't able to prove the unintentional nature of the infraction. Her hypothesis about the strawberry dessert was not conclusive. Therefore, her confidentiality was never guaranteed. You may not have known right at the games, though everyone would have had high suspicions, but it would/could have been revealed later because Kamila Valieva was not able to prove that the doping was unintentional, despite proposing 3 hypotheses. It's exactly because of that, that the sanction is 4 years and not less.
I invite you to do a google translate of the document @saine just posted. I am offering a free translation/summary here but if you want to read the sources and know the judgment word for word, it's all there, in French.
Confidential information was being leaked about her almost immediately in Beijing (as if the information was ready to discredit her). Remember that they leaked she had declared three substances on her form and people like that Tygart were trying to tie is together as a "trifecta of substances" that indicated she was most definitely guilty and needs to be banned from the individual event. Then throughout the subsequent two years we were drip fed information. Before the arbitral award was published we had the Times leaking all the details of the case. It's so appalling. Yet, we see with other recent high profile cases in other sports involving adults, they can keep all that information confidential when it suits them. For years at a time as well. There's an Italian skater that has had a mysterious disappearance.
 
On Wednesday, the Federal Supreme Court of Switzerland rejected an appeal against the CAS decision to disqualify Valieva, according to a document obtained by RIA Novosti.

"WADA cannot comment on this at this time," the organization's press service said.


I wonder why they cannot comment this time around ;).

Also, to add

Investigations should not be conducted with a closed mind, pursuing only one outcome (e.g., institution of anti-doping rule violation proceedings against an Athlete or other Person). Rather, the investigator(s) should be open to and should consider all possible outcomes at each key stage of the investigation, and should seek to gather not only any available evidence indicating that there is a case to answer but also any available evidence indicating that there is no case to answer.]

Which wasn't done when the Director-General got personally involved in shutting down an experiment because it was yielding "super favourable" results for the child.

I don't know how WADA would explain this? What if this was a murder case involving a 15 year old accused of murder. Just shut down any experiment if it looks "super favourable" to the accused. This would be misconduct and result in a mistrial.
 
Is it not ironic we have 6,000 posts for someone who's greatest achievement on the senior level is champion of Skate Canada and Finlandia Trophy?

Rika Hongo has a more compelling resumè.
 
Is it not ironic we have 6,000 posts for someone who's greatest achievement on the senior level is champion of Skate Canada and Finlandia Trophy?

Rika Hongo has a more compelling resumè.
She's shattered her own world records multiple times. Maybe that is the difference ;). The highest level of skating ever shown. Plus she maintained a high level across four senior seasons going through a very difficult puberty, and likely will be back at the end of next season to compete again.

Plus, official titles don't mean much given the bans since February 2022. It would be like arguing that a junior female who just jumped 6 ultra-c in two programs but never won an ISU medal is a lesser skater than someone who picked up a bronze on the JGP circuit for a 175 score :rolleye:. I'm sure there are people who would try to make the argument 175 > 238 of course, but they would be wrong :biggrin:
 
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Plus, official titles don't mean much given the bans since February 2022. It would be like arguing that a junior female who just jumped 6 ultra-c in two programs but never won an ISU medal is a lesser skater than someone who picked up a bronze on the JGP circuit for a 175 score :rolleye:. I'm sure there are people who would try to make the argument 175 > 238 of course, but they would be wrong :biggrin:

What is "ultra-c"?
 
quads and triple axel... in the jargon of Russian fans and skaters.
I'd figured out that it meant "ultra-revolution" jumps, but I still don't get the c. Does it stand for a Russian word I don't know (and can't, frankly, be bothered trying to find in a Russian/English dictionary)? :scratch2:
 
The "beating a dead horse" emoji has been removed from the menu :(
Too bad. I would need it for every single thing I might say in this thread. But since I have no emoji [sigh]... I'll better retain from this discussion.
carrion.gif


There you go.

ETA: It's BB code, some browsers/mobile might not be able to display it.
 
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I'd figured out that it meant "ultra-revolution" jumps, but I still don't get the c. Does it stand for a Russian word I don't know (and can't, frankly, be bothered trying to find in a Russian/English dictionary)? :scratch2:
Actually it is not of specifically Russian origin. It comes from an old scoring scale in gymnastics where difficulty of an element was marked with letters A to C. Ultra C was a slang expression among gymnasts then to mean more than difficult, extra difficult, better than the best etc.
That was a long time ago, now the scale in gymnastics is much more elaborate. This expression of old was adopted by Russian FS fans to mean jumps with the highest number of rotations - quads and 3A - for the economy of expression, I guess, I am not sure if they started to use it when Russian girls started to jump quads, or if it is older than this, but it became very popular among their fans then. Still, it is surely just adopted and not a Russian invention as such.
Wiki defines it as originating in Japan of the 60s. :scratch2: but I am sure I read somewhere it was used more broadly among gymnasts at a time.
Hope this helps!

 
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