Knierims split from coach Aliona Savchenko

[GGFan]

Excuse me?
Work ethic of American pairs?
Do you have any back up for that statement?
As in Ashley Cain and Tim Leduc practicing their hearts out to achieve that smooth supple “as one” skating? As in Deanna Stellato coming back after 16 years to work and work and work at being a pairs lady?

If Aljona thinks Alexa and Chris weren’t adopting her program, all well and good. But it wasn’t because of some supposed laziness or lack of commitment on the Knierims’ part.:disapp:
If anything I would expect that Alexa and Chris know that there are far more important goals in life than medals. And that they weren’t afraid to tell Aljona that. If so (and completely my speculation based on their history of Alexa almost dying, and ya know, while being completely committed, priorities that are a tad more important than skating) bravo for them:agree:. I applaud that attitude

I wish Aljona, Alexa and Chris all the best as they go forward from this.

Um, why is it an insult to say that the work ethic of American pairs is not the same as Aljona standards? I doubt the work ethic of most people is up to Aljona standards.

Sorry if that's hurtful or you feel the need to be excused but just my thoughts on the matter. I never said I had any superior insight and I was clear in stating that I do not know why the split happened. :confused2: Note, that just like myself you're speculating.

If Alexa and Chris are happy with their spot in the world I'm happy for them. It doesn't mean that I do not get to have thoughts on the matter.

 

[WeakAnkles]

Um, why is it an insult to say that the work ethic of American pairs is not the same as Aljona standards? I doubt the work ethic of most people is up to Aljona standards.

Sorry if that's hurtful or you feel the need to be excused but just my thoughts on the matter. I never said I had any superior insight and I was clear in stating that I do not know why the split happened. :confused2: Note, that just like myself you're speculating.

If Alexa and Chris are happy with their spot in the world I'm happy for them. It doesn't mean that I do not get to have thoughts on the matter.

Because it is one thing to say "I doubt the work ethic of most people is up to Aljona standards" and quite another to say American pairs are lazy. Look up the phrase "ad hominem," because that is a textbook example of it.

 

[GGFan]

Because it is one thing to say "I doubt the work ethic of most people is up to Aljona standards" and quite another to say American pairs are lazy. Look up the phrase "ad hominem," because that is a textbook case of it.

And I have yet to see where I called American pairs lazy. You guys read that in. I compared their records: On one side Aljona who is known to be a work horse and American pairs who have been known to split up at the drop of a hat and rarely progress very far.

I started my comment by saying I did not know why the split happened. I'm not sure why it is that every time a criticism is made of a fave some big time defender has to come along and defend them.

There's normal work and then there's champion's level of work. Sorry if I stepped on toes by saying that but I stand by the original statement. Nothing ad hominem there.

ETA: Instead of being mad that we only have one pair for worlds people are mad because I mentioned work ethic. . . . Sorry but this is not a Knierims fan fest and my thoughts are completely on topic. Feel free to disagree but the righteous indignation is unnecessary.

 

[Lester]

The information we got are so short. The room for speculation is so immense.

At the end of the day this whole story makes everybody appear in a bad light. The Knierim for missing the chance to continue working with Aljona and Aljona for ditching the opportunity.

Aljona has always been brilliant but stubborn. Her personality has chanced over the years but the Olympic Gold reinforced her ENTJ-personality. Her childhood and youth had not been the easiest. Everyone who knows her story might understand her better.

She will always need someone to balance her out. Through the last years she had even four men around her (Bruno, Liam, Alexander and Francois Ballester). Many people need to be pushed. Some people need to be stopped. I really doubt that she will be a worldclass coach since she will usually struggle to understand other's needs and special feelings. She will be a great choreographer with great ideas and her influence will make everyone look greater. But as a head of a team she will struggle.

I apologise if this sounds rude but this expert psychological analysis and most grave prognosis made me laugh
And also the very idea that making someone work hard is some sort of abuse or something.

 

[mau]

Wow that was fast

 

[Lester]

Because it is one thing to say "I doubt the work ethic of most people is up to Aljona standards" and quite another to say American pairs are lazy. Look up the phrase "ad hominem," because that is a textbook example of it.

What? Where do people get taught to be always wary of phantom logical fallacies? Well, I know where, I was taught them in class too like they are important.
This is not "ad hominem" or any other fallacy. For this to be ad hominem the poster would have to be having an argument not with a bunch of people on the internet but with the american pairs in question and even then it won't be exactly ad hominem because it is still very on topic and relevant to the discussion. Maybe if the poster called them ugly or immoral instead it would be ad hominem
In any case, the statement that the work ethic of American pairs in not up to Aljona's standards is just a generalised statement that may or may not be true, not a fallacy.

 

[QuadThrow]

Care to share more about her story? I'm quite fascinated in knowing more about her.

There are many Details in the book Tatjana Flade wrote about Aljona and Robin in 2014.

It is about her will to begin skating I think in the age of four in a little town next to Kiev. Her Patents were poor and their flat was cold. Every day she got up at 4 am to take the Bus on her own to Kiev to take part in the skating lessons. In the age of 20 she decided to leave the Ukraine without speaking any German word and without knowing anybody in Germany. She achieved everything by her own. No Millionair can say this about hisself.

 

[gold12345]

Why? Aljona is amazing, if you want to be as amazing as her, you gotta put in the hard work. If not, you're free to leave.

But "hard work" is different for every skater. Nobody is Aljona, and Alexa wasn't going to turn into Aljona in a few months. The goal for the Knierims should be to become better than they were before (which was happening), not try to turn into Aljona & Bruno overnight. Even if you see potential in them to become really great, they still have to work at their own pace. As long as a skater is trying to give his/her own personal hardest, that should be enough for a coach.

I wouldn't expect most skaters to be able to train at Aljona's pace (especially if it's true that she really goes to the extreme and does perhaps more than is necessary at times) and I have never heard that K/K weren't willing to work hard. If anything, they sounded very driven about working with Aljona and spending longer hours at the rink. And of course, it takes time to adjust to a new training system. Nobody knows the skaters better than they know themselves. So yes, K/K clearly needed to be pushed more than they were pushed in the US and athletes do need to listen to their coaches, but coaches also need to listen to their athletes to some degree. (not saying that wasn't happening here, it's just some people make it sound like if you don't follow every coaching command, you aren't working hard enough).

From the very small amounts of info out there, it sounds more like Aljona and K/K may have had disagreements as to the setup of their programs and how to go about training those. Based on all the changes in K/K's skating, you can see that Aljona was giving them a lot of new material all at once, which is fantastic, but maybe they needed to slow down a bit. So it might have been more of a disagreement about training philosophy than a work ethic issue. Even regarding US pairs in general, all of the pairs are on different levels of athletic prowess; don't just assume they have questionable work ethics. Most elite athletes work very hard.

Every skater on the Grand Prix deserves to have a coach with them at competitions. It's upsetting for any skater to be left without a coach the week before an event. No matter what happened, it's unfortunate it had to get to that point.

 

[andromache]

There are many Details in the book Tatjana Flade wrote about Aljona and Robin in 2014.

If I was a millionaire I would pay to have this book translated into English, because it sounds fascinating.

 

[elephanter]

There are many Details in the book Tatjana Flade wrote about Aljona and Robin in 2014.

It is about her will to begin skating I think in the age of four in a little town next to Kiev. Her Patents were poor and their flat was cold. Every day she got up at 4 am to take the Bus on her own to Kiev to take part in the skating lessons. In the age of 20 she decided to leave the Ukraine without speaking any German word and without knowing anybody in Germany. She achieved everything by her own. No Millionair can say this about hisself.

OT: She is a pair skater though, so to achieve the millions she did need great pairs and coaches and funding to pay for the costs etc. No one achieves anything without anyone else, she didn't teach all those skills to herself.

 

[lavoix]

If I was a millionaire I would pay to have this book translated into English, because it sounds fascinating.

Exactly, is there no English version? I tried looking it up but couldn't find anything.

 

[Alexz]

If I was a millionaire I would pay to have this book translated into English, because it sounds fascinating.

Exactly, is there no English version? I tried looking it up but couldn't find anything.

on amazon, but yeah it's in German...

 

[Matt K]

Gee, shocker. Not.

When they first announced this it it smelled like a publicity/attention stunt. I mean, of course I am not doubting their intentions, I really believe they thought that Aliona would somehow launch their careers to become contenders (which I am puzzled by), but really, she has never coached and the idea seemed so half-baked and reckless as to defy logic.

Wow that was fast

I predicted this partnership would end by the end of this season at the very latest.

 

[skylark]

According to TSL, Alexa and Chris are going to Jenny Meno and Todd Sand ... may have already moved to California. That's good news, because whatever they do, they needed to do it quickly and get the "arc" of training going for their NHK showing.

Still, I have to agree with Andromache ... I wish they'd been able to go with John Zimmerman and Silvia Fontana, another married couple. And I wish they'd made that move back in April. But Zimmerman may not have said yes, even if they did ask him.

I finally watched Tatiana Flade's interview of Alexa and Chris back in early September. I hadn't realized that Aljona has been Alexa's idol for years. And I can only imagine that that added to a coaching situation that was already complicated by scheduling issues and differences in ways of training. But I am only speculating, as are we all.

It was a good episode of TSL, the SC episode. OT, but Ack, they said Kayne/O'Shea have changed their SP. Whatever one thinks of Dave's opinions, his inside information often turns out to be true.

 

[Skater Boy]

Because it is one thing to say "I doubt the work ethic of most people is up to Aljona standards" and quite another to say American pairs are lazy. Look up the phrase "ad hominem," because that is a textbook example of it.

I think Aliona is a fine example of hard work. But again, I think too many fans or lovers of Aliona lol might be over emphasizing the great competitor translates to good coaching. Working super hard is great but if it isn't smart it cqan cause more problems - burnout, injuries etc and each skater is different. I give Aliona credit for her many wins and her fortitude but she has yet to show she has the talent or experience to bring about the best from her skaters. We cannot always be all things to everyone. Our "world" may be focussing on the Renaissance person - I can do it all and do it well. We have actors who want to direct, produce, sing, dance and put their name on furniture and clothing etc. I am not saying Aliona isn't a fine coach or won't be but I do think she has to put in her time and learn the ropes - yes, she could be the exception but we'll see. Time will tell.

 

[QuadThrow]

OT: She is a pair skater though, so to achieve the millions she did need great pairs and coaches and funding to pay for the costs etc. No one achieves anything without anyone else, she didn't teach all those skills to herself.

Yeah. You are totally right. But your statement is true for every single human on this earth. The word "selfmade" millionaire is a lie and should not be part of our language. Even being a millionaire is something critical. But this a just my personal believe.

 

[moonvine]

Gee, shocker. Not.

When they first announced this it it smelled like a publicity/attention stunt. I mean, of course I am not doubting their intentions, I really believe they thought that Aliona would somehow launch their careers to become contenders (which I am puzzled by), but really, she has never coached and the idea seemed so half-baked and reckless as to defy logic.

Like the pairs get any sort of publicity...out of every discipline they get the least and there is precious little publicity given to any skater. I have a feeling if I asked 100 people on the street "Who is Nathan Chen?" maybe 1 MIGHT know. It's so different from the "glory days" - EVERYONE knew who Dorothy Hammil was, even wanted her haircut, etc. Of course everyone knew who Tonya and Nancy were too, but for a bad reason.. I wonder how many people can name the last US ladies OGM or World Champion...

 

[skylark]

Yeah. You are totally right. But your statement is true for every single human on this earth. The word "selfmade" millionaire is a lie and should not be part of our language. .

You are Absolutely right. They have their country's infrastructure, roads, tech availability, to name a few -- to boost them, at the very least.

 

[noskates]

Agree with you but I think it comes down to the lack of television in prime time and the lack of skating tours other than the VERY limited SOI tours (which seem to have fewer dates every year) The general public has no opportunity to "know" the skaters anymore.

I hope Alexa and Chris find a good home with Meno and Sand. I've always enjoyed their skating and feel like they have the talent to be internationally competitive. Wasn't too sure about Sapperfield's choreography for them. It seemed sort of basic and not too inspiring. Maybe this change will do them good.

I also agree that being a world class skater doesn't necessarily equate to being a world class coach. I would imagine Aliona drives pretty hard because that's how she personally trained. Not everyone can do that. In any case, hope it works out.

 

[moonvine]

My dream would be for Tai, Randy, or Tai and Randy to start coaching and Alexa and Chris to go to them. I could spend hours just watching Tai stroke around the ice.